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AEther Figment is not a completely terrible card to consider for illusions pre-rotation. Is it good? Probably not! At least they are inexpensive.
Do you see yourself losing a game with a Caged Sun in hand and no Architects in play? Probably a more likely scenario than 2+ creatures + Caged Sun in play, 2+ cards in hand, not that you are in a super sick position to begin with in that scenario.
And is there really a scenario where you have an active Architect in play where you don't want to either a) bash them with your pumped blue dudes or b) just play Wurmcoil/Mindslaver and kill them next turn (potentially this turn with Mindslaver)?
If you want a card that doubles as a means to leave up counters and threats, just play Azure Mage (pumped by Architect woooo). Azure Mage also doubles as a creature that your opponents will often feel is worth using a removal spell on, which takes some heat off your lords.
Anyways I can't see Illusions ever taking on the true control role. It's just Merfolk without Vial/Wasteland/Force but in an environment where you maybe don't need cards as busted as Vial/Wasteland/Force to compete.
Also just like Merfolk in that Grim Lavamancer crushes you.
-edit-
also why not maindeck dismember
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On September 15 2011 09:06 Orpheos wrote:
ever mental misstepped a goblin guide? or a lethal lightning bolt?
i would still run 24 land tbh. having a mana advantage is always nice. playing spells with 2 mana open seems nice. also getting mana screwed blows especially if it prevents you from curving out. there are red decks with 20 one drops that still run 24 lands because its worth it.
also into the roil is ALOT better than disperse. not even close to the same level.
Yeah, I had 2 missteps at the NPH prerelease, but it was my first tourney ever and I kinda got ripped off by a buncha guys that knew a lot more than me. They gave me some casual junk rares for my Mental Missteps and Birthing Pod.
Now the damn thing has shot up in price thanks to Legacy, $3+ a pop.
Like I said, I'm trying to keep it budget, so I have to play some cards that are strictly worse or that I already own to cut down costs, plus I wanted to keep as many of my cards as possible from rotating out so I don't waste a buncha money.
If I were to run 24 land, I'd probably consider throwing in a Halimar Depths (which I can trade for at any point) or 2 over a Disperse and a Unified Will.
On September 15 2011 09:14 MCMcEmcee wrote:
AEther Figment is not a completely terrible card to consider for illusions pre-rotation. Is it good? Probably not! At least they are inexpensive.
Do you see yourself losing a game with a Caged Sun in hand and no Architects in play? Probably a more likely scenario than 2+ creatures + Caged Sun in play, 2+ cards in hand, not that you are in a super sick position to begin with in that scenario.
And is there really a scenario where you have an active Architect in play where you don't want to either a) bash them with your pumped blue dudes or b) just play Wurmcoil/Mindslaver and kill them next turn (potentially this turn with Mindslaver)?
If you want a card that doubles as a means to leave up counters and threats, just play Azure Mage (pumped by Architect woooo). Azure Mage also doubles as a creature that your opponents will often feel is worth using a removal spell on, which takes some heat off your lords.
Anyways I can't see Illusions ever taking on the true control role. It's just Merfolk without Vial/Wasteland/Force but in an environment where you maybe don't need cards as busted as Vial/Wasteland/Force to compete.
Also just like Merfolk in that Grim Lavamancer crushes you.
-edit-
also why not maindeck dismember
Yeah, I'm actually considering cutting Caged Sun and a Unified Will for 2 more lands after really thinking about it. Most of my testing data came from playing a couple rounds at a card shop with proxies, and people running similar lists on MODO and IRL. I dunno the modo land count but the IRL land count was 23.
Azure Mage actually might be a good sideboard choice over the Vapor Snags come to think of it.
No maindeck dismembers because there really aren't a lot of creature heavy decks out there and I can normally overrun most decks with a slow start or low toughness creatures, plus Dismember doesn't kill their big finishers anyway (titans, wurmcoil, sphinx, etc). They come in against pod, maybe valakut (battlements are annoying), twin, and probably against Werewolf decks post rotation (I'd love to build me one of those).
Also for the record, I bought 2 Darksteel packs in like 2003 and still have an Aether Vial lying around  since it's not popular in modern and I have no intention of ever playing Legacy, I'm holding on to it to trade for some Innistrad stuff post rotation.
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On September 15 2011 09:14 MCMcEmcee wrote:
Also just like Merfolk in that Grim Lavamancer crushes you.
Not to mention arc trail and forked bolt are a beating. MU vs MRA seems atrocious. hopefully innistrad brings some goodies. I always liked blue aggro-control decks like merfolk and fae.
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should just run 2 more islands (or buried ruin??), halimar doesn't have enough upside in your deck to be worth coming into play tapped
also i can't wait to play a bad deck with snapcaster mage, azure mage, and trinket and/or treasure mage
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On September 15 2011 09:21 MCMcEmcee wrote:
should just run 2 more islands (or buried ruin??), halimar doesn't have enough upside in your deck to be worth coming into play tapped
Yeah, probably, I was mostly just musing there. Buried Ruin is interesting, and I would strongly consider it IF I were running metamorphs, but I'm not. Probably going to just end up 2 more basic islands.
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Thanks for posting that site, watching your m12 draft now.
Another gem I found on the site: http://www.draftmagic.com/2011/07/29/magic-2012-draft-strategy-scaling-the-aggro-crag/
This sums up my problems with m12. ((a quote from the article))
"My main point is, don’t play control, you’ll lose."
Edit: Strikes a chord. From the comments "Right on, the problem i am finding with M12 is the ridiculous amount of good commons. This takes away much of the skill in drafting in my opinion as there are always lots of decks that will be good and signaling becomes awkward as people blindly take strong cards and splash and splash. Many games seem to come down to who draws the nuts hand. (of course opening bombs aside)"
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I don't know about that. I've done well in drafts playing blue/black control. Royal Assassin, Looter, Divination...it kinda hinges on the Assassin but sometimes it can work pretty well.
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Weren't m10/11/12 designed to be drafting with training wheels? It's pretty much the reason I don't draft this set >.>
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I think he is exaggerating how bad control is, i have done fine several times drafting UB control. you can gum up the board with cheap guys, save removal for their big guys/bombs and win with yours. between wring flesh, sorins thirst, phantasmal bear, aether adept, cutthroat, and the drakes you should be fine against aggro. You beat most decks in card draw from the blue and you have answers for them, and you have no weakness to any aggro strategy. You don't even need to kill them via damage if you put in a mesmerist as i like to do.
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Guess my drafting experience has differed greatly. The only time I've done well has been when I went heavy agro or the nuts draw control.
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On September 15 2011 11:46 Cixah wrote:
Weren't m10/11/12 designed to be drafting with training wheels? It's pretty much the reason I don't draft this set >.>
Not really, it's just different. The cards are a lot more solid, but there is higher overall card quality, and cards aren't pegged into extremely specific archetypes (INFECT...although you could say mill in M12 specifically).
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On September 15 2011 11:46 Cixah wrote:
Weren't m10/11/12 designed to be drafting with training wheels? It's pretty much the reason I don't draft this set >.>
Pretty much. It's not hard to end up with a power deck, it's not like it's easy, but it's pretty autopilot.
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Sorry to be slightly off topic, but I've always been a casual player who's been looking to get better but had no clue how. Can anyone point me to any really good sites/guides for MTG noobs?
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the core sets are definitely easier to draft but they are by no means easy. it is easier to evaluate cards and its three of the same pack.
i started during SOM after having left the game a couple years back but never really drafting heavily. I rarely won drafts at my LGS during scars, but with M12 I have won maybe 5/8 drafts Ive been in.
/brag
also control isnt necessarily dead, you just have to be abit more midrangy. and run dem coral merfolks. jkjk... kinda
I actually have a love affair with taking bunches of late merfolk mesmerists when Im blue. they make great blockers and in multiples they end the game pretty fast with the right support.
also mana leak got soooo much better.
@creedo
the big ones are starcitygames, channelfireball and to a lesser extent tcgplayer.
I would suggest channelfireball especially for their draft videos.
getting better in magic is also similar to starcraft. try to meet better ppl than you when you go for FNM. and relaly think about each play and after think about what you did wrong. try to talk about the game as much as possible when you are with other magic ppl.
also unfortunately I dont think there are any quality forums for magic. idk ive hated most of the ones ive been on because people are kinda bad... TL too spoil me >_<
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i miss the days where my friend would whip out the rulebook everytime an argument was had. God did everyone hate him when we played... haha
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The good thing about M12 draft in comparison to the previous core sets is the introduction of synergy. Pick orders are not nearly as clear as M11, where you basically just took the best card every single time. Pick orders now vary drastically depending on curve, color commitment, amount of tricks, etc. There are decks that don't want Pentavus, there are decks that first pick Hunter's Insight, there are decks where Blood Ogre > Gorehorn Minotaurs, everything is quite flexible. It's a good "introduction" to the idea that you have to evaluate cards on a deck-by-deck basis, so in that way I think it's one of the most successful limited formats.
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On September 15 2011 12:59 Orpheos wrote:
also unfortunately I dont think there are any quality forums for magic. idk ive hated most of the ones ive been on because people are kinda bad... TL too spoil me >_<
Let us make TL, the new standard for magic forums. All we need is a few good people to go places and rep it lol. I try, but I figure a T-Shirt might not be enough.
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On September 15 2011 13:20 Cixah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2011 12:59 Orpheos wrote:
also unfortunately I dont think there are any quality forums for magic. idk ive hated most of the ones ive been on because people are kinda bad... TL too spoil me >_< Let us make TL, the new standard for magic forums. All we need is a few good people to go places and rep it lol. I try, but I figure a T-Shirt might not be enough.
Ya, SCG forums were pretty decent ~6 years ago but I just went back there recently and just wow. Can't even describe how bad it was.
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On September 15 2011 13:11 Cel.erity wrote:
The good thing about M12 draft in comparison to the previous core sets is the introduction of synergy. Pick orders are not nearly as clear as M11, where you basically just took the best card every single time. Pick orders now vary drastically depending on curve, color commitment, amount of tricks, etc. There are decks that don't want Pentavus, there are decks that first pick Hunter's Insight, there are decks where Blood Ogre > Gorehorn Minotaurs, everything is quite flexible. It's a good "introduction" to the idea that you have to evaluate cards on a deck-by-deck basis, so in that way I think it's one of the most successful limited formats.
Oh man, what deck couldn't use a Pentavus! It's sooo sweet in Limited. I'm sure there's some example but I can't think of it.
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On September 15 2011 13:11 Cel.erity wrote:
The good thing about M12 draft in comparison to the previous core sets is the introduction of synergy. Pick orders are not nearly as clear as M11, where you basically just took the best card every single time. Pick orders now vary drastically depending on curve, color commitment, amount of tricks, etc. There are decks that don't want Pentavus, there are decks that first pick Hunter's Insight, there are decks where Blood Ogre > Gorehorn Minotaurs, everything is quite flexible. It's a good "introduction" to the idea that you have to evaluate cards on a deck-by-deck basis, so in that way I think it's one of the most successful limited formats.
A deck that would first pick hunters insight??? I really don't think it has a place in any deck, as any green deck would rather lay down another creature to beat with rather than rely on a "combat trick" to draw cards. Anyways, HI almost always wheels in my pods so i could never see first picking it.
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EPT
