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On September 14 2011 14:41 DEN1ED wrote:
Lifelink is significantly better than vig. Vigilance is only relevant if they are threatening with attackers but lifelink is always relevant. And even if they are going to attack back, the lifelink would most likely equal what they are going to attack for anyways. Unless they have a 4/1 or some. It also scales better with honor of the pure/equipment. And sure, he will be great in draft/block where there are probably going to be lots of werewolves/zombies/vampires but I doubt it will be that significant in standard. Innistrad isn't a full tribal block like lorwyn so I highly doubt there will be full tribal decks that are competitive. If this was a card in lorwyn and had pro goblins/merfolk/elves, it would be insane.
This is where a difference of viewpoints come into play. I'm a drafter XD
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planning on splintering some exarchs this weekend~
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My cards (in theory) should arrive on Friday afternoon, and I will finally have a Standard deck. If not, Saturday night drafts.
It's my birthday tomorrrow, so hopefully I'll end up with some spare cash to keep drafting/put together a commander deck.
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On September 14 2011 22:35 deth2munkies wrote:
My cards (in theory) should arrive on Friday afternoon, and I will finally have a Standard deck. If not, Saturday night drafts.
It's my birthday tomorrrow, so hopefully I'll end up with some spare cash to keep drafting/put together a commander deck.
Happy birthday man.
What standard deck are you building?
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On September 14 2011 23:42 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 22:35 deth2munkies wrote:
My cards (in theory) should arrive on Friday afternoon, and I will finally have a Standard deck. If not, Saturday night drafts.
It's my birthday tomorrrow, so hopefully I'll end up with some spare cash to keep drafting/put together a commander deck. Happy birthday man. What standard deck are you building?
Thanks. It's illusions with a few budget tweaks and changes to make it resistant to the rotation. I posted the decklist here a while back. (On phone atm)
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I lost to a my local store's owner who took the pre-constructed illusion deck and threw in a bunch of automatons and more lords - along with some other stuff like Grand Architect. It was pretty funny, since he raw dogged it without a sideboard. It wasn't really the Illusions that killed me but the Automaton-ed/Grand Architect-ed Wizards. Nothing like facing down a board of 7/7 Aether Adept.
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On September 15 2011 05:07 slyboogie wrote:
I lost to a my local store's owner who took the pre-constructed illusion deck and threw in a bunch of automatons and more lords - along with some other stuff like Grand Architect. It was pretty funny, since he raw dogged it without a sideboard. It wasn't really the Illusions that killed me but the Automaton-ed/Grand Architect-ed Wizards. Nothing like facing down a board of 7/7 Aether Adept.
What were you running? Why'd you lose? Just bad draws with no removal?
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On September 15 2011 05:14 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2011 05:07 slyboogie wrote:
I lost to a my local store's owner who took the pre-constructed illusion deck and threw in a bunch of automatons and more lords - along with some other stuff like Grand Architect. It was pretty funny, since he raw dogged it without a sideboard. It wasn't really the Illusions that killed me but the Automaton-ed/Grand Architect-ed Wizards. Nothing like facing down a board of 7/7 Aether Adept. What were you running? Why'd you lose? Just bad draws with no removal?
U/W mid-range Venser. I also probably didn't take him seriously enough, it was a really small 8-man standard tournament on a Sunday afternoon. I didn't mulligan a truly terrible hand in game 2 and in game three he got a Phantasmal Dragon up and running with a Lord of the Unreal - I never drew Oblivion Ring, basically a three turn clock for me. But I don't want to make it seem like I let him win, he beat me fair.
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I'm not a huge fan of the automatons, they aren't blue (unless you pay 1 every turn) so they don't get boosted by Grand Architect, and they add nothing, where Grand Architect adds the Artifact mana thing and LotU gives Hexproof to all your guys that need it. I play a singleton Caged Sun in addition to the lords/architects/images for a total of 13 (possible) lord effects. Caged Sun is a beating in a mono-colored deck and is really easy to get out with GA in play.
The only other non lord/illusion creatures I have are 2 Treasure Mages in the sideboard that help fetch Wurmcoil Engines, Mindslaver, or Caged Sun in matches where I either need lategame or need more blockers + a win condition (like monored).
My list:
+ Show Spoiler +4x Phantasmal Bear
4x Phantasmal Image
4x Phantasmal Dragon
4x Lord of the Unreal
4x Grand Architect
22x Island
3x Mana Leak
3x Ponder
2x Gitaxian Probe
2x Wurmcoil Engine
3x Disperse
1x Caged Sun
4x Unified Will
Sideboard:
4x Flashfreeze
4x Dismember
2x Vapor Snag
1x Mindslaver
2x Treasure Mage
2x Torpor Orb
Here's a rundown of the questionable things:
2 Torpor Orbs are for pod/twin decks...I might actually cut them post-rotation because it doesn't look like there's a lot of "come into the battlefield" abilities apart from Snapcaster mage.
2 Vapor Snags are because A: I owned them already, B: I wanted 1 mana answers in aggro mirrors. They kill bears, bounce Goblin Guides after they give me my land, and will also answer the vampires and humans in Innistrad that are reliant on building up +1/+1 counters.
1 Mindslaver is a tutor target for Treasure Mage and my best weapon against U/B control. They have what it takes to keep my board down early then drop a huge threat I can't easily deal with (like Grave Titan), Mindslaver can keep that from happening if I get it out.
OK, that's weak, you got me, I put it in for funzies.
3 Disperse: Into the Roil is rotating and goes for over $1, I own 2 already, easy choice.
4 Unified Will: I will almost always have more creatures on the board and having a hard counter is a good idea. These were spell pierces, which would probably be better, but they went from .75 to $1.50 and the 2 sites I wanted to buy from were sold out.
No Metamorphs: too expensive. Phantasmal Image already doubled in price from when I made the list, I couldn't afford to spend $4-6 per Metamorph too. I wanted to keep it under $100, and with shipping, all the stuff I didn't have came out to $78.
Rest of the stuff is self-explanatory. This is my first Standard deck ever, so it's still rough and I'll probably work on it more once Innistrad comes out. Hopefully once the common utility spells are all released I'll be able to upgrade some of my stuff and replace the Unified Wills.
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in what case would you rather have a caged sun that simply another wurmcoil engine?
i guess if the +1/+1 made it so that you have lethal on board. but seems bad. the key to deckbuilding when you start out is not trying to get too cute with things.
also vapor snags seem really bad. so do the disperses. im not sure what to put instead because I havent really played the deck and dont know what the meta will look like.
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I think you'll find that the Automaton is better than the Caged Sun. And just run Into the Roil instead of Disperse and Preordain instead of Ponder, since you're playing Unified Will anyways.
EDIT: Sorry, didn't read your reasoning for Into the Roil/Disperse. But, Preordain over Ponder for sure. Also, your Hexproof Dragon is, basically, going to have to win you games a third of the time, I'd think.
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Disperse isn't really a replacement for into the roil. That's like not having swords for caw-blade and playing greatsword instead. It would be better to just run more counters or land. With wurmcoil and caged sun, 22 seems very light.
And ya, preordain over ponder but I guess you are planning for post rotation so w/e. You also say you dont like automaton when comparing him to architect. But if you compare him to caged sun, he is far superior. They both give your team +1+1 but one costs 3 and the other 6. And if you have 6 mana in this deck, you don't really need the extra mana from caged sun.
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I just had another thought, just cut all of the Disperses and the Caged Sun. Instead, add 2 Aether Adepts and 2 Automatons! Problem solved: more gas, more tempo. Maybe side a Negate(or Spell Pierce!) or two in case you run into Day of Judgement or Life's Finale or Black Sun Zenith.
EDIT: Ehhh, you're running Unified Will, I guess it's fine.
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On September 13 2011 18:35 Risen wrote:
Need to find someone who streams other than cel >.< he can't stream 24/7 and I get bored doing homework XD
I haven't posted a new one in a while, but my draft videos can be found at DraftMagic.com, if you click on "Greg Jolin" in the sidebar.
Grand Prix Montreal this weekend. Pretty excited about this one. It's limited, and...it's in Montreal.
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On September 15 2011 06:27 DEN1ED wrote:
Disperse isn't really a replacement for into the roil. That's like not having swords for caw-blade and playing greatsword instead. It would be better to just run more counters or land. With wurmcoil and caged sun, 22 seems very light.
And ya, preordain over ponder but I guess you are planning for post rotation so w/e. You also say you dont like automaton when comparing him to architect. But if you compare him to caged sun, he is far superior. They both give your team +1+1 but one costs 3 and the other 6. And if you have 6 mana in this deck, you don't really need the extra mana from caged sun.
Yes, but I'm either removing countermagic or creatures that actually do something in order to fit them in, and I'm not convinced I want to do either.
Firstly, Disperse and Into the Roil fill identical roles, the only reason Roil is strictly better is that it has an optional cost/benefit, one that 99% of the time I wouldn't be paying.
Disperses are there because this deck cannot deal with certain threats, namely Pyromancer Ascension on turn 2, Consecrated Sphinx, Grave Titan, Sword of Body and Mind, and a charging Shrine of Burning Rage. I can't rely on my countermagic for everything. It also provides tempo when I'm in the aggro role and a backup answer to the Exarch/Twin combo. Hopefully there's a better bounce spell or other answer in Innistrad as I don't like them either but they seem necessary. Aether Adept wouldn't answer most of those threats at all.
Vapor Snags were there to help me with tempo in aggro matches, I don't think they're AMAZING, but they do their job (ever Vapor Snagged a Goblin Guide after it gave you a land on turn 1? It's fun :D). I looked and really couldn't find any budget option I'd want to run over it.
I will never cast Caged Sun for 6 mana, look up Grand Architect. It lets me hold open multiple countermagic whlie still playing threats out quickly and making those threats more potent. I don't see myself losing a game where I have 2+ cards in hand, 2+ creatures on the board, and a caged sun is in play.
Preordain is better than Ponder, but not by much. Definitely not by the $2 more* that Preordain costs than Ponder and the money I'd have to spend stocking up on Ponders post-rotation. I'm quite cheap out of both necessity and nature, which is more the reasoning than any objective or competitive motive.
Also the land count: It's at 22 because this is an exceptionally low curve deck. Everything over 3 I'm cheating on with GA. I don't want to draw more than 4-5 lands in any given game.
*Preordain is $1 and Ponder was $0.49, plus I owned 1 Ponder from a draft.
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Caged Sun is just a really expensive Honor of the Pure for you. The +1/+1 is what you seem most interested in, the Mana seems completely secondary once you've got 4 Islands out and a Grand Architect. But do some play testing, maybe you'll have great results with it.
Preordain is much much better than Ponder. Without another shuffle affect, you aren't removing unwanted cards, just pushing them down to the next draw. Preordain removes the unwanted card. I hope Innistrad reveals some type of card quality/draw consistency card that is better than Ponder.
22 land is fine.
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Bouncing a 1 cmc haste creature isn't exactly the most exciting play. Even if it did give you a land. You are still only breaking even on cards and you aren't actually gaining any tempo since its 1 mana for 1 mana. And if you don't kick into the roil 99% of the time, you are doing it wrong. Sure, if you REALLY have to play it for 2 in order to stop something really bad from happening, go for it, but other wise the card disadvantage is really bad.
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On September 15 2011 07:16 DEN1ED wrote:
Bouncing a 1 cc haste creature isn't exactly the most exciting play. Even if it did give you a land. You are still only breaking even on cards and you aren't actually gaining any tempo since its 1 mana for 1 mana. And if you don't kick into the roil 99% of the time, you are doing it wrong. Sure, if you REALLY have to play it for 2 in order to stop something really bad from happening, go for it, but other wise the card disadvantage is really bad.
I bounce it because I will have a blocker the next turn. Against mono-red, I just have to preserve my life total, even at the expense of developing my board, because Lightning Bolt and Searing Blaze completely fuck me until they rotate out. Like I said, Vapor Snag is a 2 of, in the sideboard, and high on the chopping block list when I can/will get better/new cards once the rotation happens, I just happen to own 2 of them and they fit.
I don't want any CMC 4+ cards in my deck if I can help it. With a low land count and the fact I'm an aggro deck that WANTS to tap out every turn, but is stable enough that I can pass a few turns with counters up, means I don't want to spend 4 mana on an answer, even if it does have a cantrip attached. If I'm ahead enough on board I can afford to kick the Into the Roil, I'm probably gonna win anyway without the cantrip...except maybe against Precursor Golem or something  It costs 5x more than Disperse, I already owned one, and is, again, high on the chopping block.
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On September 15 2011 06:27 DEN1ED wrote:
Disperse isn't really a replacement for into the roil. That's like not having swords for caw-blade and playing greatsword instead. It would be better to just run more counters or land. With wurmcoil and caged sun, 22 seems very light.
And ya, preordain over ponder but I guess you are planning for post rotation so w/e. You also say you dont like automaton when comparing him to architect. But if you compare him to caged sun, he is far superior. They both give your team +1+1 but one costs 3 and the other 6. And if you have 6 mana in this deck, you don't really need the extra mana from caged sun.
AND he's a body. Always useful
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ever mental misstepped a goblin guide? or a lethal lightning bolt?
i would still run 24 land tbh. having a mana advantage is always nice. playing spells with 2 mana open seems nice. also getting mana screwed blows especially if it prevents you from curving out. there are red decks with 20 one drops that still run 24 lands because its worth it.
also into the roil is ALOT better than disperse. not even close to the same level.
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EPT
