• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:13
CEST 00:13
KST 07:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash8[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy13ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research7Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool49Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win4
StarCraft 2
General
Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 519 Inner Power The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Build Order Practice Maps BW General Discussion Pros React To: SoulKey vs Ample [ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group F Azhi's Colosseum - Foreign KCM [ASL21] Ro24 Group E [ASL21] Ro24 Group D
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1290 users

Magic: The Gathering - Page 468

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 466 467 468 469 470 665 Next
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
September 30 2013 21:08 GMT
#9341
On October 01 2013 05:24 Kommatiazo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 03:45 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On October 01 2013 03:34 Kommatiazo wrote:
Hey guys! So I played MtG once a long time ago (like 12 years ago...) with a friend's green deck at a FNM event, or something similar. Once. And now I am trying to get into the game a little more, easing in, as it were. I bought MtG:O and have been messing around with a buddy on there, and I think I want to join a Sealed league as that format appeals to my tastes and my wallet the most. Due to this most of my studying of magic literature has been geared towards learning sealed/limited deck strategy. Which is great, except that when I play my friends it's the standard game mode with a 60 card deck that's prepared ahead of time. I have thus read up on constructed and standard deck strategy a bit and I really like the Black/white deck I have despite it being made up of only new player pack cards.

Also, I haven't picked up on all the jargon yet, so please let me know if I'm misusing some term or whatever, and go easy on the acronyms for me, most times MtG speak is still foreign to me, but I'm getting there.

Anyway, I had a question or ten for you knowledgeable TLers here about the differences in deck strategy pertaining to going from Sealed->Constructed specifically. I find that it's hard for me to separate what's good in what format and why. I mean, I understand that some card specific tactics can work well in constructed and awfully in sealed simply due to the ability to select virtually any card and vise versa, but mostly I'm getting confused when trying to ramp up my deck strategy to the 60 card format. In sealed its almost always going to be better to run 40 cards to be as focused and efficient as possible right? Does the same apply for 60 card format? Or is it more viable to run 70 or 80+ cards? I've been trying to make my deck work with as few cards as possible, as I think this fits my play style as well as my experience in various card games telling me that a slim deck is a good deck.

Some more specific questions: In sealed I prefer to run 2 colors, max of 2+ a small splash, but in standard with a 60 card deck is 3 or more colors a better, or at least, a more viable option? Should it still be 2+splash? Or is 3+splash or even 2+2 splash more worth it? Am I going about this the wrong way? Lol

About card strategies: are there any differences in what I should try as far as that goes? Like in sealed I feel it's a solid play style to just try to go for quick wins with either creatures or some combo or another, basically to just to focus on low cost/quality but high quantity and beat down your opponent. in constructed though, are quick wins (with the applicable color, red is the go to for fast and dirty right?) even viable? Or is it "standard" to shoot for the long game in that format? If you try and stick to a 60 card late game deck what mana cost is it best to focus on? I.e. do you just want to load up on strong 5 mana spells? Or 7+ bombs? I'm a complete noob in this format so I'm a little clueless.

I doubt anyone wants to take me by the hand and answer all this in detail, so if you have a link to a helpful guide/article I'll definitely read it. I just haven't found answers to my specific questions in that vein yet, so I thought I'd ask here. So please don't take this as "I'm a noob, I'm unwilling to research on my own, please explain everything to me so I don't have to do any work."

Thanks guys! Kommatiazo is also my name on mtgo if anyone wants to add me and play (I'm garbage so go easy! :p )


If you want to know more about control/long game, then read Oscar Tan's Control Player's Bible Part 1-20

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/archive.php?Article=Oscar Tan

His other articles are also good and worth a read.

Don't memorize card names or card interactions, listen to him talk about how a deck functions and how you can trust your deck functioning.


That article series is intense! Just finished part 1, and it's helping me to understand the more complex strategic layering that can happen in structured play. Thanks for the link! And side note: "The Deck" is fucking insane. Those cards are ALL so goddamn powerful. That article was written in '01, so is that deck/are those cards still usable/in play today? Or are they all outdated or banned now?


Its for the Vintage format, so they're all legal except for the fact that its not likely you'll play them. The specific card choices don't matter as much as the concepts he talks about. Flexibility of cards, card relevance changing from turn to turn, clutch cards you keep and protect, etc...

Other articles to look for are "Who's the Beatdown," almost anything by Mike Flores, Brian Kibler, and Adrian Sullivan (at least back when he was posted on The Dojo.

Also important to start learning about mana curves--articles like this is help but there is many more. http://www.wizards.com/sideboard/article.asp?x=sb20001005a
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-30 21:38:46
September 30 2013 21:18 GMT
#9342
On October 01 2013 05:55 MCMcEmcee wrote:
Uwr mana is worse than uw and the power level is worse than esper. Could get tuned to the point where it's good but esper just seems more promising.

Oh shit I thought the UR scry land had been released.

Edit: on the subject of articles everyone should read, and I feel this is more catered to people who have played and understand the game on a familiar level, http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/2005_Stuck_In_The_Middle_With_Bruce.html

After reading that all I could think was fuuuuuuuuuuck...
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
September 30 2013 22:18 GMT
#9343
On October 01 2013 06:18 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 05:55 MCMcEmcee wrote:
Uwr mana is worse than uw and the power level is worse than esper. Could get tuned to the point where it's good but esper just seems more promising.

Oh shit I thought the UR scry land had been released.

Edit: on the subject of articles everyone should read, and I feel this is more catered to people who have played and understand the game on a familiar level, http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/2005_Stuck_In_The_Middle_With_Bruce.html

After reading that all I could think was fuuuuuuuuuuck...


Everyone must read everything by Rizzo.

It won't make you a better Magic player, but it will make you a better human.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-30 22:49:17
September 30 2013 22:48 GMT
#9344
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

This is why Thoughtseize is overrated in Standard. This is also why you don't play BUG. This is also why I refuse to switch to tri-color control. Finally, you don't deal 8 damage to yourself and expect to win.
Get it by your hands...
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
September 30 2013 23:07 GMT
#9345
One game doesn't really prove much. Also not sure why he conceded. Guess his hand was nothing.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
September 30 2013 23:25 GMT
#9346
I am sorry, but when you use 3 Thoughtseizes on the draw to rip Jace/Aetherling/Sphinx's against a control deck that mulled and still find yourself in a parity situation, the card probably isn't that good.

It's more commentary about the efficacy of the card in Standard, and not player skill. His 2nd and 3rd thoughtseizes were pretty much worse than countermagic or an actual threat.
Get it by your hands...
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
September 30 2013 23:36 GMT
#9347
I just dont understand how the game got to the point it is. He tapped out for sphinx knowing you had Elspeth? If that is the case he is bad. If you topdecked the Elspeth when he thought the coast was clear since he has stripped your hand, well shit happens sometimes and that's just magic.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
September 30 2013 23:52 GMT
#9348
He tapped out for the 3/5 Sphinx on 5 and I was on 5 lands. It's not a bad play when he only knew about Sphinx's in hand since a Sphinx for 2 or 3 doesn't break his board. I had to decide whether to Sphinx for 3 on my turn or Elspeth, since he played a Downfall already in an attempt to kill Mutavault, I opted for Elspeth.

My line only makes sense if I draw a Detention Sphere since Jace blanks the tokens. I needed some luck to win for sure, but again, there's no reason that an aggressive line should be that open to a control deck when the opponent is playing black.

He misplayed for sure, but it's not like his Seizes whiffed on junk either. Basically his Seizes didn't see the Syncopate to save my last Mutavault, didn't see the Elspeth, he had full knowledge of everything else.
Get it by your hands...
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-30 23:53:50
September 30 2013 23:53 GMT
#9349
I believe the sphinx belongs to Judi :S

Edit: Oh, prog sphinx rofl
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
October 01 2013 00:08 GMT
#9350
Pretty much his line would have been great cause it would have given him all day to set up his board, wreck my early game, mid game, and late game plans if it weren't for the 2 Mutavaults...cause he can't block them well. I was leaving up any countermagic I drew to protect the Mutavaults once he decided to start the game at 14 life.
Get it by your hands...
WindWolf
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Sweden11767 Posts
October 01 2013 11:37 GMT
#9351
Will go on a Theros sealed event this Friday. Is it much different from drafting?
EZ4ENCE
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12705 Posts
October 01 2013 12:41 GMT
#9352
On October 01 2013 06:18 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 05:55 MCMcEmcee wrote:
Uwr mana is worse than uw and the power level is worse than esper. Could get tuned to the point where it's good but esper just seems more promising.

Oh shit I thought the UR scry land had been released.

Edit: on the subject of articles everyone should read, and I feel this is more catered to people who have played and understand the game on a familiar level, http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/2005_Stuck_In_The_Middle_With_Bruce.html

After reading that all I could think was fuuuuuuuuuuck...

Found this a couple weeks ago. Seriously, hits home.
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
October 01 2013 14:33 GMT
#9353
On October 01 2013 20:37 WindWolf wrote:
Will go on a Theros sealed event this Friday. Is it much different from drafting?

Slower than draft. Forces you to play more colors. You will likely be 2 colors with a third splashed, this is normal. If you can stick to two colors great. Don't try and force mono color.
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
Audemed
Profile Joined November 2010
United States893 Posts
October 02 2013 00:03 GMT
#9354
On October 01 2013 21:41 mordek wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 06:18 Risen wrote:
On October 01 2013 05:55 MCMcEmcee wrote:
Uwr mana is worse than uw and the power level is worse than esper. Could get tuned to the point where it's good but esper just seems more promising.

Oh shit I thought the UR scry land had been released.

Edit: on the subject of articles everyone should read, and I feel this is more catered to people who have played and understand the game on a familiar level, http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/2005_Stuck_In_The_Middle_With_Bruce.html

After reading that all I could think was fuuuuuuuuuuck...

Found this a couple weeks ago. Seriously, hits home.


No kidding, I'm reading that thing and it's just wow, I went 2-2 last night...because of me. And seriously, that's what it was. HERPADERP I'LL TAKE A 6 LAND REVELATION HAND BECAUSE I HAVE A SCRYLAND AND MUTAVAULT AND CAN TOTALLY FIND A VERDICT IN TIME.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -George Orwell
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
October 02 2013 00:56 GMT
#9355
I mean you reap what you sow. It's like players are always expecting the breaks for them and only them. That's why you shouldn't play Magic if you feel like you need to win and are expected to win.

Hell, we all watched micronesia go like 2 steps down that road kicking and screaming while the rest of us tried to drag him back from it when he first started playing the game. Same for the other guy that got banned here.

LSV probably said it the best in as few words, if you feel like you have to win, then you really shouldn't be playing the game.
Get it by your hands...
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24766 Posts
October 02 2013 01:14 GMT
#9356
I maintain I had a very rough stretch of bad luck with mana.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
October 02 2013 02:34 GMT
#9357
On October 02 2013 10:14 micronesia wrote:
I maintain I had a very rough stretch of bad luck with mana.

Today playing BW in draft, I keep a hand with 2 plains, as the earliest black cost I require is turn 4 (ox and scholar, skeletal griffin hemlock and something), and I'm running more swamps than plains anyways. My next draw is grey merchant, plains, hythonia, 3 plains straight, I'm dead. Sometimes mana screw is real.
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-02 03:47:28
October 02 2013 03:46 GMT
#9358
Thats fine, but how you deal with it is more important than anything in allowing youself to enjoy it in the long run.

Anyone going to GP Louisville?
Get it by your hands...
CruelZeratul
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany4588 Posts
October 02 2013 13:45 GMT
#9359
When will Theros be released online?
MCMcEmcee
Profile Joined April 2008
United States1609 Posts
October 02 2013 15:56 GMT
#9360
Very likely to play junk at states, uw is another possibility. Or master of waves???? (Probably just jamming junk)
[iHs]MCMcEmcee@UFO | のヮの
Prev 1 466 467 468 469 470 665 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL
21:00
S22 - Ro16 Seed Tie-Breaker
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft262
ViBE40
CosmosSc2 11
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 12692
Artosis 188
ZZZero.O 136
Mini 104
actioN 39
NaDa 28
Sexy 25
Hm[arnc] 21
Dota 2
syndereN409
capcasts95
canceldota44
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0179
Liquid`Ken6
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu418
Other Games
summit1g4788
tarik_tv3927
Grubby2715
FrodaN2142
shahzam461
JimRising 357
ToD194
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta15
• Reevou 9
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki28
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21371
• WagamamaTV854
League of Legends
• Doublelift2828
• TFBlade1479
Other Games
• imaqtpie1103
• Scarra861
• Shiphtur98
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 47m
The PondCast
11h 47m
OSC
1d 1h
RSL Revival
1d 11h
TriGGeR vs Cure
ByuN vs Rogue
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Maru vs MaxPax
BSL
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
3 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-31
WardiTV Winter 2026
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
Escore Tournament S2: W1
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.