EPTMagic: The Gathering - Page 465
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
On September 30 2013 00:50 slyboogie wrote: Sleeve that Thoughtseize! Stat! Yeah, I soon as I saw it I asked the store if I could get a card sleeve for the card (and my foiled mountain). Will get more cards and sleeves next week | ||
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DEN1ED
United States1087 Posts
On September 29 2013 15:03 Judicator wrote: Yes you can. Turn player retains priority when the instant resolves. So afterwards, you are presented with the decision to either advance phases or cast more. Its the same for End of my turn opponent casts Instants and I can choose to let those resolve before casting any spells. Since he announced that he is going to combat, he can no longer play a sorcery. Only instants can be played at the beginning of combat. For instance, if you go to combat and your opponent taps one of your creatures, you would not then be able to cast Mobilize and attack with the creature. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22055 Posts
On September 30 2013 07:45 DEN1ED wrote: Since he announced that he is going to combat, he can no longer play a sorcery. Only instants can be played at the beginning of combat. For instance, if you go to combat and your opponent taps one of your creatures, you would not then be able to cast Mobilize and attack with the creature. Incorrect. In this example he announced he wanted to move to combat and his opponent cast a spell at the end of the first main phase. Not in the combat phase. Once the spell resolves priority gos back to the active player (it is still the main phase since the spell was cast at the end of the main phase). He can then play sorcery's since it will stay main phase until he once again passes priority in order to move to the combat phase. However if his opponent had said he would cast the instant at the combat step before attackers are declared sorcery's can not be played anymore. Its a tiny step in the phases but its very important for things like this. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
Not much feels better than swinging for 20 Indestructible, Trampling damage. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On September 30 2013 10:02 Risen wrote: You know things are dire when you have to play an 8 drop that only comes online to really do something to the opp at 10 mana hahaha The deck was basically 7 Bestow creatures, 4-5 enchantments, then 2 heroic creatures. When I drew them, I won quickly. When I didn't, I played a 10/10 defender, because reasons. | ||
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DEN1ED
United States1087 Posts
On September 29 2013 14:50 micronesia wrote: I encountered a rules situation where I wasn't sure of the answer. I announced I was ending my main phase and going into the next phase. An opponent announced that he was casting an instant, and it resolved. Can I follow that up with a sorcery, or do I have to wait until after combat? I though I had passed priority and that's it, but they said I can still cast the sorcery since I had not declared attackers yet. It is a very tricky situation and it is very dependent on EXACTLY how you word it. If you say "I want to move to attackers/combat" then it is no longer your main phase 1. If you say "I want to leave my main phase" and they cast something then obviously you can cast a sorcery again. The thing is almost no one ever says it the 2nd way. This has come up a lot recently due to the resurgence of Desecration Demon and his triggered ability and every judge I have seen has ruled that the person left their main phase. Gorsameth mentioned "end of main phase" several times in his post but no such thing actually exists. This "end of main phase" step is really the beginning of combat phase which is now part of the overall combat phase. I guess if micronesia said exactly "I want to leave my main phase" and his opponent responded to that then sure, you could cast a sorcery but I have never heard anyone actually say this. | ||
micronesia
United States24752 Posts
On the other hand, usually an opponent will wait until your declare attackers phase has begun, and only then cast an instant (after the attacker has had a chance to cast an instant as well), so that you are no longer in the main phase, and cannot follow it up with a sorcery. In other words, from what I've heard, it depends on when the opponent is casting the instant. | ||
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DEN1ED
United States1087 Posts
On September 30 2013 11:37 micronesia wrote: Well DEN1ED, if I am in my first main phase, and then say "I am going to my declare attackers phase now," the opponent can choose to cast their instant before I actually go to the declare attackers phase. If they do this then, based on what others have been saying, we don't leave my first main phase until after their instant resolves, and we both pass priority again. On the other hand, usually an opponent will wait until your declare attackers phase has begun, and only then cast an instant (after the attacker has had a chance to cast an instant as well), so that you are no longer in the main phase, and cannot follow it up with a sorcery. In other words, from what I've heard, it depends on when the opponent is casting the instant. Yes, you do. There are 5 phases that make up the combat phase in general. Beginning of combat, declare attackers, declare blockers, combat damage, and end of combat. You can be in the combat phase without declaring attackers, this is the beginning of combat phase. If your opponent waited until your declare attackers step to to lets say tap your creature, it would fail as you don't get priority during the declare attackers step until the attackers are declared and already tapped/attacking. You would also already have taken damage from a hellrider trigger and missed out on stopping other abilities that trigger off attacking(like battalion). Saying "I'm going to combat" or "Declare attackers" or w/e is a commonly accepted shortcut to the beginning of combat phase. 716.1. When playing a game, players typically make use of mutually understood shortcuts rather than explicitly identifying each game choice (either taking an action or passing priority) a player makes. 716.1a The rules for taking shortcuts are largely unformalized. As long as each player in the game understands the intent of each other player, any shortcut system they use is acceptable. People very rarely explicitly identify that they are leaving their precombat main phase and this is probably one of the most common shortcuts. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On September 30 2013 11:24 DEN1ED wrote: It is a very tricky situation and it is very dependent on EXACTLY how you word it. If you say "I want to move to attackers/combat" then it is no longer your main phase 1. If you say "I want to leave my main phase" and they cast something then obviously you can cast a sorcery again. The thing is almost no one ever says it the 2nd way. This has come up a lot recently due to the resurgence of Desecration Demon and his triggered ability and every judge I have seen has ruled that the person left their main phase. Gorsameth mentioned "end of main phase" several times in his post but no such thing actually exists. This "end of main phase" step is really the beginning of combat phase which is now part of the overall combat phase. I guess if micronesia said exactly "I want to leave my main phase" and his opponent responded to that then sure, you could cast a sorcery but I have never heard anyone actually say this. No, it's not complicated at all and there's actually zero room for misinterpretation. You are forgetting turn player priority. When turn player decides to move on in phases, they retain priority in the new phase. There is no way for the non-turn player to ever play an instant first in the new phase. Simply put, if micronesia's opponent played an instant first, then micronesia had to give up priority in the new phase which never happens without micronesia attempting to advance phases or in the very rare occasion (yugioh players will remember this) his opponent asking explicitly about passing priority. So the wording is irrelevant given that his opponent attempted to cast spells. It's only relevant if micronesia attempted to move across multiple phases. Like if the opponent doesn't clarify what phase they are casting the spell in, it defaults to last possible time they could have cast a spell, which is frankly only in main phase 1, because they are unable to cast one in beginning of combat step first without micronesia attempting to turn creatures sideways. This is why the opponent NEEDS to wait until micronesia attempts to move to attack step and also why MtG:O has a stop on my opponent's X step/phase function. Your Demon example isn't really relevant. | ||
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DEN1ED
United States1087 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On September 30 2013 11:51 DEN1ED wrote: Read my update on the use of shortcuts. I'm just trying to warn you guys. If you play in a tournament and say "move to combat" or "declare attackers" or w/e you are now in beginning of combat phase. Not if your opponent says, "Wait, end of your main phase..." after you say that. | ||
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DEN1ED
United States1087 Posts
On September 30 2013 11:53 deth2munkies wrote: Not if your opponent says, "Wait, end of your main phase..." after you say that. Yes, sure. But no one says that since it is generally your INTENT to cast it during beginning of combat. There is actually zero situations i can think of where you would want to do that, which is why it doesn't happen. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On September 30 2013 11:51 DEN1ED wrote: Read my update on the use of shortcuts. I'm just trying to warn you guys. If you play in a tournament and say "move to combat" or "declare attackers" or w/e you are now in beginning of combat phase. Most of the time, yes. Not in micronesia's scenario. There simply isn't an opportunity for his opponent to cast a spell in beginning of combat until micronesia passes or does something to pass priority in beginning of combat. Edit: And since his story doesn't say that he did anything to suggest, then they were in the 1 place where his opponent could have cast a spell, precombat main phase. | ||
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micronesia
United States24752 Posts
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DEN1ED
United States1087 Posts
On September 30 2013 11:58 Judicator wrote: Most of the time, yes. Not in micronesia's scenario. There simply isn't an opportunity for his opponent to cast a spell in beginning of combat until micronesia passes or does something to pass priority in beginning of combat. Edit: And since his story doesn't say that he did anything to suggest, then they were in the 1 place where his opponent could have cast a spell, precombat main phase. Saying "go to combat" or "declare attackers" is an accepted shortcut that you want to now attack with your creatures. This means you have passed priority during beginning of combat phase. If you want a judge to rule in your favor you would have to be VERY explicit and say "I would like to leave my precombat mainphase" or "Id like to enter beginning of combat phase". Anything else is a shortcut to declare attacks step which your opponent can interrupt. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On September 30 2013 12:02 micronesia wrote: If I want to end my first main phase, and I announce I am going to my declare attackers phase (instead of saying I'm going to my beginning of combat phase) can my opponent announce they are casting an instant during my beginning of combat phase? I would think you can argue that you passed priority in your first main, but didn't pass priority in your beginning of combat phase, since you can't pass priority twice in a row... your opponent needs to pass priority in between your two passes. No, they can't. They can't until you pass priority in beginning of combat. I have had actually put cards back into opponent's hands because they don't have priority, it's like thanks for showing me your cards, but I get to play first as turn player. This is why you say declare attackers, then move to attacks. If your opponent wants to back up to beginning of combat, they can and that way you have also acknowledged that you have passed priority in beginning of combat. | ||
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DEN1ED
United States1087 Posts
On September 30 2013 12:02 micronesia wrote: If I want to end my first main phase, and I announce I am going to my declare attackers phase (instead of saying I'm going to my beginning of combat phase) can my opponent announce they are casting an instant during my beginning of combat phase? I would think you can argue that I passed priority in my first main, but didn't pass priority in my beginning of combat phase, since you can't pass priority twice in a row... your opponent needs to pass priority in between your two passes. As I've been saying, it is a shortcut. If you just draw your card and say "go" that is also a shortcut". If your opponent then casts an instant it is assumed to be end of turn phase. Your opponent never actually said he was passing priority during your draw/main1/BoC/main2 phases. In this scenario you guys would argue that he is casting that spell during your draw step. That is just not how magic works. Shortcuts, it's all shortcuts. Without them magic would be such a terribly tedious game no one would play it. | ||
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