EPTMagic: The Gathering - Page 453
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caelym
United States6430 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On September 17 2013 06:00 caelym wrote: netdeck Jund, win GP. at least that's what people have been saying in the past 24 hours. Considering it rotates out of standard this week, that'd be a poor investment. | ||
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DEN1ED
United States1087 Posts
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caelym
United States6430 Posts
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BlueBird.
United States3890 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On September 17 2013 07:45 caelym wrote: if they ban fetchlands, modern is probably not worth playing. my opinion is relatively uninformed since I just got back 2 months ago, but I think they should ban tarmogoyf and unban nacatl, bitterblossom, and sword of meek. The only thing banning fetchlands will do to modern is make it so that 2 color is the norm and 3 color is rare/easy to punish. There is SO MUCH mana fixing in magic right now it is ridiculous. | ||
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Audemed
United States893 Posts
On September 17 2013 08:12 Thieving Magpie wrote: The only thing banning fetchlands will do to modern is make it so that 2 color is the norm and 3 color is rare/easy to punish. There is SO MUCH mana fixing in magic right now it is ridiculous. You don't need fetchlands to run 3 colors, it works fine in standard right now with shocks/checks, and modern has other good lands available too (filters, fastlands, etc). I think banning fetches would be a great thing to do. They slow down the game and make it just way too easy, not to mention off-turn landfall interactions and deathrite. EDIT: where did you see mentions of ppl talking about fetch bans, btw? | ||
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Pooshlmer
United States1001 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On September 17 2013 08:20 Audemed wrote: You don't need fetchlands to run 3 colors, it works fine in standard right now with shocks/checks, and modern has other good lands available too (filters, fastlands, etc). I think banning fetches would be a great thing to do. They slow down the game and make it just way too easy, not to mention off-turn landfall interactions and deathrite. EDIT: where did you see mentions of ppl talking about fetch bans, btw? Previous page, just forum chat, nothing real. The reason I say 2color comes from heavy land disruption much more available in Modern than the new standard that is upcoming. 3color will definitely still be available, but a faster format than standard and the inability to easily rely on having 8-12 of a "shockland" will definitely make color decisions harder and for the better all without hurting the overall metagame. | ||
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DEN1ED
United States1087 Posts
@SamuelHBlack Fetch lands should be banned for the same reason nacatl was: they push out other mana bases. Building modern decks would be more interesting @SamuelHBlack w/o fetches, cards like tri-lands and vivids might see play, and choices about that would add a lot. Expand @SamuelHBlack Also, physical games would be appreciably more fun b/c of removing wasted time shuffling. Also, small tournaments would go faster. @thepchapin To be clear, it's gotta be one way or the other. More bans or less. Also, fwiw, the world would be a better place w/o fetch lands in Modern. @thepchapin Fetchlands are this way we all waste an hr a day of our lives during Modern events so that our mana is still just as good as our opponents'. I'd say the chat is real and is certainly a possibility. I think wotc has to do SOMETHING about modern. Also person who just started playing again saying it wouldn't be worth playing Modern without fetches? Lol what? Fetch lands are not what make modern great. They are what make it terrible. Fetches were fine back in zendikar because decks generally just ran 4 and you would just fetch a basic land so it went very quickly. In modern decks run 8+ fetches and everytime they fetch they have to think carefully about what land to get and then once they figure that out they have to find their 1 of shockland in the deck. Takes forever. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
BTW, if JTMS is unbanned, BBE has to be unbanned with it to keep him in check. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Bitterblossom is something I am not sure about since I didn't actually play during that time, but I did play a little extended before it got blown up and that card was a headache. Not sure if it would actually do anything in Modern, although if fetchlands are banned, the format would slow down, maybe enough for BB to be good (since the mana base from that block looks slower). Edit: As for Standard testing, I don't think 3 color is viable in the opening weeks, Naya is like the closest playable followed by Bant. There's just too many boogeyman decks where if you take 2-4 points of shockland damage and your like dead. Esper's match ups against control are preliminary wonderful, but terrible against aggro decks. So I am testing UB some more and trying out cards. Pharika's Curse is very good so far in shoring up the aggro matchups (much like its M12 functional ancestor). Still need to test MBC to see if there's actually a deck out there, but I feel like Adam Barnello already covered the ugly aspects of the deck. WB isn't a deck, it can't actually beat GW like ever so I don't know why I keep seeing it or who's peddling that nonsense, it has issues beating the quality of creatures GW puts out, Voice, Fleecemane and Smiter are just difficult to deal with. Still very preliminary stuff though. | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
I admit that combined with shocks they're incredibly strong, but I would be inclined to ban shocks rather than fetches. The reason the fetch/shock combo is so strong is shocks have basic land types, which is fairly unique. Having two extremely strong properties on one land is too much. Fetches strength is that they give you a double land drop and put one in your yard for use with other effects that suit certain deck types (shaman/cobra ramp for example), their weakness is they don't provide consistent dual colours (which is abrogated by shocks) Shocks strength should be that they provide you both active and dual colour mana on the turn they come down, and don't ping you for each use. They're already stronger pain lands, they shouldn't also have another strength in basic land types. If wizards were to print a cycle of dual lands that were basically gates with both basic land types, then banned shocks I'd be far happier than if they banned fetches and left shocks as they are. Shocks just have too much potential for abuse and their properties make them universally useful. The only way I can think of balancing them in modern is putting the pain up to 3 life to make them more situational and less attractive to slower decks. While people are bitching about them, I think Scry lands are an excellent example of a competitively designed dual- they provide reasonable fixing, have a strong upside (having 8 or 12 sources of scry 1 in your deck is bonkers as far as smoothing your deck's play goes) and a strong downside (ETB tapped). Scry lands suit some decks (control and combo) and not others (aggro). They feel right for a nonbasic IMO. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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caelym
United States6430 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On September 17 2013 13:30 caelym wrote: complaining about fetches because they "waste time" is a really flimsy argument for a banning. there's nothing interesting about having to play a worse mana base without fetches. making decks more inconsistent or slower doesn't help modern in any way. Not advocating for its banning, but fetches just seems lazy design for the modern format. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On September 17 2013 13:36 Judicator wrote: Not advocating for its banning, but fetches just seems lazy design for the modern format. Fetchlands are actually wonderfully designed lands. When they first came out, it was a mana fixer that required you to play basics to maximize their potential, but they both thinned the deck as well acted as a shuffle mechanic. All good stuff. Then they revealed their ridiculousness in Vintage and Legacy, then Shocklands came out, then suddenly all mana bases looked the same for everyone. 8-12 fetchlands + 4-10 duals in all decks save Belcher. I wouldn't want either banned, but we need better punishment for non-basics than manabarbs.... | ||
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caelym
United States6430 Posts
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
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Merany
France890 Posts
But on the other hand, I agree that something needs to be done about Modern. As someone who is just building a control deck (gifts), this top8 at GP detroit is kinda depressing... | ||
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