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TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 23 2010 21:51 GMT
#61
On September 24 2010 06:50 Orpheos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2010 06:40 TheYango wrote:
StarCityGames.net - Another site that has articles by professional players, but most of the ones worth reading are Premium, which means without a subscription, you can't read them till they're a month out of date. Some of the older articles are good for learning basic magic theory (card advantage, approaches to building sideboards, etc.), but I think with a site revamp, they took out their list of must-read theory articles.


O_O did not know you could do this.

I actually didn't know until 2 days ago.
Moderator
Orpheos
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1663 Posts
September 23 2010 22:46 GMT
#62
On September 24 2010 06:51 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2010 06:50 Orpheos wrote:
On September 24 2010 06:40 TheYango wrote:
StarCityGames.net - Another site that has articles by professional players, but most of the ones worth reading are Premium, which means without a subscription, you can't read them till they're a month out of date. Some of the older articles are good for learning basic magic theory (card advantage, approaches to building sideboards, etc.), but I think with a site revamp, they took out their list of must-read theory articles.


O_O did not know you could do this.

I actually didn't know until 2 days ago.

you realize you single handedly erased like 10hours of my time in the near future because of this. (and more in the far future i guess...)
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-23 23:01:01
September 23 2010 22:57 GMT
#63
my friends play this shit all day. It's good for draft and sealed tournies and things like that. But I think it sucks for normal play and collecting..

From watching them play I have to say the UI is clumsy and ugly (think poker sites). I also don't like the reminder things where it asks you yes/no on activations and stuff. Part of the skill of the game is to remember to do stuff and control the game.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
September 23 2010 23:07 GMT
#64
On September 23 2010 02:41 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2010 02:17 Gustav_Wind wrote:
On September 23 2010 00:48 Mogwai wrote:
I really really hate how it changes the dynamics of bounce and pump in limited. I mean, it basically just took removal (already too strong in limited) and made it stronger. And then my housemates were dicking around with an 11th edition draft and they told me they brought lightning bolt back... Wow, great, bring back an already borderline OP card that's of a type that just got buffed in draft.

uhg whatever, I understand that it's not the end of the world, but I was already getting fed up with the game and the direction Wizards was taking with it. Those stupid giant guys who make you sacrifice X permanents when they attack and are indestructible, more retarded planeswalkers, meh, it's just not something I'm interested in. There's a difference between spicing stuff up and keeping the game interesting and changing it so much that it loses its identity. I feel like magic was moving towards the latter.


Sup Mogwai

I wish combat damage stacked too, and I wish pump was a bit better, but the other stuff isn't so bad.

Why is removal too strong in limited? yes, it's very strong, and in most formats you pick removal over almost everything, but why is that a problem for gameplay? They usually print the right amount of it at common and so it plays fine.

Rise of Eldrazi draft had those huge guys that tended to win the game when they attacked, but they still costed a million. There are a lot of successful archtypes in RoE draft; it's not all about playing huge creatures. It's a really good draft format.

planeswalkers are pretty dumb but thankfully (for limited) they are mostly mythic. For constructed it kinda sucks, but you said you don't care about it. Constructed is really different these days but Limited still plays like it has for the past couple of years.



well, the whole dynamic of bounce/pump vs. removal in combat has now been changed so that you can never enter even combat (3/3 vs. 3/3 for instance) with a pump/bounce spell without putting yourself in position to eat a 2 for 1 if the opponent has instant removal. again, w/e, I understand that they can balance this through their set construction, I just think it ruined what was once a good dynamic between the spell types.

my point about the eldrazi is that their card design is stupid, less than their card design is imbalanced. basically they're threats that are impossible to deal with which is exactly 0 fun to play against, so the whole card design is a push and pull between making the person with the card want to shoot themselves (because they can't play the damn thing) and making the person without the card want to shoot themselves (because they can't deal with the damn thing when it's in play). It's like having a set where the focal point is multiple cards that are more powerful than darksteel colossus... oh wait, it's exactly that. So w/e, it doesn't necessarily have to screw up the set for drafting, but it's still stupid design IMO. It's a concept that is innately unfun IMO.

god do I hate mythic being an excuse to hide behind for limited balance. go lose a PTQ top 8 draft because some fucking tard managed to open Garruk Wildspeaker and play it on turn 4 in 2 games and then come back and tell me that rarity makes planeswalkers acceptable. If anything, it's even more infuriating that each draft you'll usually have 1 dude who just hits the lottery and has some gamebreakingly powerful and resilient threat handed to them on a silver platter. Again, I understand that people can beat them and yea, I've won plenty of limited matches vs. planeswalkers, but it's still stupid that they're basically just tacked onto the game and don't have anything really devoted to removing them. They just don't feel like they belong in the game, yet Wizards seems to be running with them as a fixture in the game now.


it's funny how you say the design is terrible when they based it off starcraft, not even lying. There was an article called battle cruiser magic.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
September 23 2010 23:19 GMT
#65
On September 24 2010 07:57 CharlieMurphy wrote:
my friends play this shit all day. It's good for draft and sealed tournies and things like that. But I think it sucks for normal play and collecting..

From watching them play I have to say the UI is clumsy and ugly (think poker sites). I also don't like the reminder things where it asks you yes/no on activations and stuff. Part of the skill of the game is to remember to do stuff and control the game.

Everything triggers whether you remember or not. If you forget it's assumed that you choose no. Remembering to do something isn't skill. You also can't control the game, phases happen and priority happens, the only thing you do is make choices. You seem extremely confused about some of the basics of the game.
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-24 01:06:39
September 24 2010 01:05 GMT
#66
On September 24 2010 08:19 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2010 07:57 CharlieMurphy wrote:
my friends play this shit all day. It's good for draft and sealed tournies and things like that. But I think it sucks for normal play and collecting..

From watching them play I have to say the UI is clumsy and ugly (think poker sites). I also don't like the reminder things where it asks you yes/no on activations and stuff. Part of the skill of the game is to remember to do stuff and control the game.

Everything triggers whether you remember or not. If you forget it's assumed that you choose no. Remembering to do something isn't skill. You also can't control the game, phases happen and priority happens, the only thing you do is make choices. You seem extremely confused about some of the basics of the game.


i think he means that you can get away with things like forgetting optional triggers, because the game will remind you.

Which is true, but modo really makes you a better technical player just because there's no option to be sloppy [just bad]... so you learn how not to be.

He's right about the UI, it's really awful. V2 was a lot better, except that it uh, didn't work half the time.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-24 01:35:51
September 24 2010 01:35 GMT
#67
--- Nuked ---
Tyrio
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States3248 Posts
September 24 2010 02:16 GMT
#68
On September 24 2010 10:35 Barrin wrote:
I'm just posting to say that I just helped my brother sell his 7500+ card collection (1993(Unlimited) to 1999 (Mercadian Masques)) for over 700 dollars on ebay.

MTG was really the first game that got me into "games", even though I was absolutely terrible at it back in the day.

As for MTG:O I have no idea except that it doesn't seem worth it at all to me.


I hope you researched that collection and made sure you got your money's worth. Cards that old can be worth a lot.

As far as MTGO goes, it's great if you have absolutely no where else to play or if you want to get practice in before some event. Otherwise playing live is a million times better. Basic human interaction is actually extremely enjoyable, playing a bunch of drafts with little to no discussion with other people gets old extremely fast.

I do love that all the janky rares on MTGO are worth next to nothing, so I can build as many terrible jank but fun decks as I want (UB Maralen of the Mornsong/Mindlock Orb lock!)
[NA] Tyrio.486 / Ahsh
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
September 25 2010 16:22 GMT
#69
Anyone got some neat pre-release stories?
Get it by your hands...
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
September 25 2010 17:17 GMT
#70
Here's my pre-release story: I didn't go. LOL POISON
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Nub4ever
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada1981 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-26 02:47:53
September 26 2010 02:47 GMT
#71
Iono going to pre-release party tomorrow and hopefully they ahve some wormcoil engines left O.O either way I'm going though but yeh is it me or is Poison REALLY good

Note: I havn't played anything aside from like core set in like 9th edition so uhh yeh. Just seems like from the vids and stuff I've watched that poisons really good O.O
Dota 3hard5me
Gustav_Wind
Profile Joined July 2008
United States646 Posts
September 27 2010 14:52 GMT
#72
On September 24 2010 08:07 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2010 02:41 Mogwai wrote:
On September 23 2010 02:17 Gustav_Wind wrote:
On September 23 2010 00:48 Mogwai wrote:
I really really hate how it changes the dynamics of bounce and pump in limited. I mean, it basically just took removal (already too strong in limited) and made it stronger. And then my housemates were dicking around with an 11th edition draft and they told me they brought lightning bolt back... Wow, great, bring back an already borderline OP card that's of a type that just got buffed in draft.

uhg whatever, I understand that it's not the end of the world, but I was already getting fed up with the game and the direction Wizards was taking with it. Those stupid giant guys who make you sacrifice X permanents when they attack and are indestructible, more retarded planeswalkers, meh, it's just not something I'm interested in. There's a difference between spicing stuff up and keeping the game interesting and changing it so much that it loses its identity. I feel like magic was moving towards the latter.


Sup Mogwai

I wish combat damage stacked too, and I wish pump was a bit better, but the other stuff isn't so bad.

Why is removal too strong in limited? yes, it's very strong, and in most formats you pick removal over almost everything, but why is that a problem for gameplay? They usually print the right amount of it at common and so it plays fine.

Rise of Eldrazi draft had those huge guys that tended to win the game when they attacked, but they still costed a million. There are a lot of successful archtypes in RoE draft; it's not all about playing huge creatures. It's a really good draft format.

planeswalkers are pretty dumb but thankfully (for limited) they are mostly mythic. For constructed it kinda sucks, but you said you don't care about it. Constructed is really different these days but Limited still plays like it has for the past couple of years.



well, the whole dynamic of bounce/pump vs. removal in combat has now been changed so that you can never enter even combat (3/3 vs. 3/3 for instance) with a pump/bounce spell without putting yourself in position to eat a 2 for 1 if the opponent has instant removal. again, w/e, I understand that they can balance this through their set construction, I just think it ruined what was once a good dynamic between the spell types.

my point about the eldrazi is that their card design is stupid, less than their card design is imbalanced. basically they're threats that are impossible to deal with which is exactly 0 fun to play against, so the whole card design is a push and pull between making the person with the card want to shoot themselves (because they can't play the damn thing) and making the person without the card want to shoot themselves (because they can't deal with the damn thing when it's in play). It's like having a set where the focal point is multiple cards that are more powerful than darksteel colossus... oh wait, it's exactly that. So w/e, it doesn't necessarily have to screw up the set for drafting, but it's still stupid design IMO. It's a concept that is innately unfun IMO.

god do I hate mythic being an excuse to hide behind for limited balance. go lose a PTQ top 8 draft because some fucking tard managed to open Garruk Wildspeaker and play it on turn 4 in 2 games and then come back and tell me that rarity makes planeswalkers acceptable. If anything, it's even more infuriating that each draft you'll usually have 1 dude who just hits the lottery and has some gamebreakingly powerful and resilient threat handed to them on a silver platter. Again, I understand that people can beat them and yea, I've won plenty of limited matches vs. planeswalkers, but it's still stupid that they're basically just tacked onto the game and don't have anything really devoted to removing them. They just don't feel like they belong in the game, yet Wizards seems to be running with them as a fixture in the game now.


it's funny how you say the design is terrible when they based it off starcraft, not even lying. There was an article called battle cruiser magic.


That article was bizarre, considering that it sold the set's limited play as something competitive players hate (sitting around doing nothing until you can play your huge threat). It's one of the best draft formats in years, though.

@ Mogwai

yeah, like I said, I agree about the damage stacking thing with pump/bounce.

about RoE, there are plenty of commons in the set that deal with eldrazi, while there's only one playable common eldrazi.. Also, It's not like you just sit around going "man I hope I get to cast this eldrazi" and cross your fingers. There's a lot of support for the theme, so your deck still plays like a deck and you are actively playing towards your game plan. There's also support for other themes.

I really dislike planeswalkers in limited too and they really have no place in it, but the players who value limited over constructed are a tiny minority out of the entire player base...
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
September 28 2010 06:02 GMT
#73
yes, the good ones :<
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
tissue
Profile Joined April 2009
Malaysia441 Posts
September 29 2010 16:24 GMT
#74
On September 23 2010 03:41 Judicator wrote:
Because that's what people are drafting right now....

While I agree with some of your points on draft, I have to step in and say that perpetual complaining about "the direction" of the game gets thrown around a lot in every set. Especially in limited where your ability to control the randomness is well...limited.

Case in point, I had 1 Tome Scour in my last draft deck, I drew it every game. Scoured an opponent's bombs (Ascetic, Liliana, Doom Blade, Platinum Angel, etc.) every time. Shit happens in draft, deal with it.

I am not a hotshot or even pretending to be good, but is there a particular reason why you played a single tome scour in a draft?
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
September 29 2010 20:04 GMT
#75
Because I was in blue already, and there was nothing else to fill it out with. Plus 40 card decks, 1 scour hits more than 1/8th of the deck, the odds are fairly good for me to catch something like a mid pick creature, a removal spell, or combat tricks, etc.

I was actually hoping more would come around, but none ever did, it still worked out more than I could have hoped, and I doubt it would happen consistently. I grabbed a sligh goblin draw in a pivotal game 3 (basically for top 4) against a mono red player too. That's how draft works, you do all you can in in deck construction, but sometimes it's better to be lucky than to be good.
Get it by your hands...
Glull
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Germany404 Posts
September 29 2010 20:22 GMT
#76
anyone willing to share his dci #? would be intresting to know if there is a certain rating trend among liquidians

and i do agree with what was stated in this thread before - there should be a general magic the gathering thread in sports&games. ill just wait for a bit longer and then just open it myself, but someone else might be better suited for the task. ill give it a few more days.
SeaweedToss
Profile Joined September 2010
17 Posts
October 01 2010 08:40 GMT
#77
I play Legacy and only Legacy. I would never play mtgo. I much prefer to sit in front of someone and talk to them. Idk im old school I guess.
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-01 10:43:04
October 01 2010 10:40 GMT
#78
On September 24 2010 10:05 UniversalSnip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2010 08:19 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On September 24 2010 07:57 CharlieMurphy wrote:
my friends play this shit all day. It's good for draft and sealed tournies and things like that. But I think it sucks for normal play and collecting..

From watching them play I have to say the UI is clumsy and ugly (think poker sites). I also don't like the reminder things where it asks you yes/no on activations and stuff. Part of the skill of the game is to remember to do stuff and control the game.

Everything triggers whether you remember or not. If you forget it's assumed that you choose no. Remembering to do something isn't skill. You also can't control the game, phases happen and priority happens, the only thing you do is make choices. You seem extremely confused about some of the basics of the game.


i think he means that you can get away with things like forgetting optional triggers, because the game will remind you.

Which is true, but modo really makes you a better technical player just because there's no option to be sloppy [just bad]... so you learn how not to be.

He's right about the UI, it's really awful. V2 was a lot better, except that it uh, didn't work half the time.


Memory is part of your talent, it's something that can be trained and learned as well. I don't see how it's not a skill? It's probably the most valuable skill of all in magic. If you can't remember the rules, you're just lost.

I've been to live tournaments, and I've seen exactly where memory makes or breaks a game.
My friend was playing that broken ass ravager deck and he forgot 2-3 times to make opponent take damage from disciple of the vault and he ended up losing (opponent had 2 life or something) the finals which got him a seat into pro tour. The ironic thing, is that my other friend was behind him and after he missed it and his turn was over he said "Man why did you not poke him!?" and the opponent was furious "WHY THE FUCK IS THIS GUY TALKING AND HELPING HIM???". They made him stop or get friend 1 DQd.
Now the game asks you every time "Would you like to poke?".

Fucking stupid.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
sung_moon
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10110 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-01 23:03:19
October 01 2010 23:01 GMT
#79
just curious i know this is called magic the gathering online but do any of you guys play on MWS? considering playing magic again but haven't played since 10th Edition days so kind of rusty and might tinker around if any TL ppl use MWS :D

edit: heh just looking at the current cards in standard heh. planewalkers/mythic rares wtf lol. i miss playing standard/extended
Forever Young
AzarIntrets
Profile Joined September 2010
109 Posts
October 01 2010 23:09 GMT
#80
I mostly play casually with friends (best way to play magic) and from time to time a legacy tournament with a budget deck but I use MWS occasionally to test out new deck ideas.

sung_moon, current standard is not something you should miss imo :S, way too expensive and some mythics are so powerfull they go out for half a starcraft game a piece. Planeswalkers I think are a bit meh.
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