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On September 23 2010 00:15 mishimaBeef wrote:
Was wondering if anyone played magic (tournaments, casual, etc.) and what are your thoughts on the online version of play vs the paper version?
i recommend magic work station + mtg gamepack, both avalible at http://www.magicworkstation.com/
there are also HQ pics avalible for every card.
the application emulates a complete mtg table and is intuitive to use.
as i kinda not played mtg in the last half year, i cannot provide up to date servers besides the default ones. however there is a good forum with indepth strategy/board discussins at http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/. u should find help there if needed.
hope it helps
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Im playing with Workstation too. MTGO limited is just to expensive for me. Workstation is just a good programm to test constructed decks and prepare for tournaments
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On September 23 2010 00:48 Mogwai wrote:
I really really hate how it changes the dynamics of bounce and pump in limited. I mean, it basically just took removal (already too strong in limited) and made it stronger. And then my housemates were dicking around with an 11th edition draft and they told me they brought lightning bolt back... Wow, great, bring back an already borderline OP card that's of a type that just got buffed in draft.
uhg whatever, I understand that it's not the end of the world, but I was already getting fed up with the game and the direction Wizards was taking with it. Those stupid giant guys who make you sacrifice X permanents when they attack and are indestructible, more retarded planeswalkers, meh, it's just not something I'm interested in. There's a difference between spicing stuff up and keeping the game interesting and changing it so much that it loses its identity. I feel like magic was moving towards the latter.
Sup Mogwai
I wish combat damage stacked too, and I wish pump was a bit better, but the other stuff isn't so bad.
Why is removal too strong in limited? yes, it's very strong, and in most formats you pick removal over almost everything, but why is that a problem for gameplay? They usually print the right amount of it at common and so it plays fine.
Rise of Eldrazi draft had those huge guys that tended to win the game when they attacked, but they still costed a million. There are a lot of successful archtypes in RoE draft; it's not all about playing huge creatures. It's a really good draft format.
planeswalkers are pretty dumb but thankfully (for limited) they are mostly mythic. For constructed it kinda sucks, but you said you don't care about it. Constructed is really different these days but Limited still plays like it has for the past couple of years.
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Used to play competitively, I wasn't that good but I still know a lot of really good players (are or were top 50 in us). Far as I'm concerned modo isn't worth spending a cent on for constructed. Just barn people with lots of cards and play with their stuff... basically, the same way it works in real life.
It's hands down the best way to draft though. Lots of cube drafting and lots of modo drafts = lots of improvement.
Last time I played, the interface was miserable... I assume that's still true.
EDIT: Limited is really good right now. Constructed has been kinda bad lately... standard is really low on tricks, it's just like, play your dudes and turn them sideways, not many surprises.
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I play Pauper on MTGO. Pauper is a variant of constructed Magic where only commons are allowed. It started out as a community-run thing ( http://www.pdcmagic.com/ ), but it is now fully supported by WOTC on MTGO (for example, last week's tourney http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/1604159 ).
Pauper is fun, relatively skill intensive (perhaps more so than regular "powered" Magic), and obviously relatively cheap. One of the best parts about Pauper is its accessibility; you can build virtually any deck for a few dollars.
On MTGO, there are various "rooms" (kinda like chat channels) in which people duel. Check out the Casual Room for casual Pauper games or the Tourney Practice Room for competitive Pauper games. Also, guys from the community run site pdcmagic.com usually hang out in the "pdc" chat room (/join pdc).
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United States13274 Posts
On September 23 2010 02:17 Gustav_Wind wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 00:48 Mogwai wrote:
I really really hate how it changes the dynamics of bounce and pump in limited. I mean, it basically just took removal (already too strong in limited) and made it stronger. And then my housemates were dicking around with an 11th edition draft and they told me they brought lightning bolt back... Wow, great, bring back an already borderline OP card that's of a type that just got buffed in draft.
uhg whatever, I understand that it's not the end of the world, but I was already getting fed up with the game and the direction Wizards was taking with it. Those stupid giant guys who make you sacrifice X permanents when they attack and are indestructible, more retarded planeswalkers, meh, it's just not something I'm interested in. There's a difference between spicing stuff up and keeping the game interesting and changing it so much that it loses its identity. I feel like magic was moving towards the latter.
Sup Mogwai I wish combat damage stacked too, and I wish pump was a bit better, but the other stuff isn't so bad. Why is removal too strong in limited? yes, it's very strong, and in most formats you pick removal over almost everything, but why is that a problem for gameplay? They usually print the right amount of it at common and so it plays fine. Rise of Eldrazi draft had those huge guys that tended to win the game when they attacked, but they still costed a million. There are a lot of successful archtypes in RoE draft; it's not all about playing huge creatures. It's a really good draft format. planeswalkers are pretty dumb but thankfully (for limited) they are mostly mythic. For constructed it kinda sucks, but you said you don't care about it. Constructed is really different these days but Limited still plays like it has for the past couple of years.
well, the whole dynamic of bounce/pump vs. removal in combat has now been changed so that you can never enter even combat (3/3 vs. 3/3 for instance) with a pump/bounce spell without putting yourself in position to eat a 2 for 1 if the opponent has instant removal. again, w/e, I understand that they can balance this through their set construction, I just think it ruined what was once a good dynamic between the spell types.
my point about the eldrazi is that their card design is stupid, less than their card design is imbalanced. basically they're threats that are impossible to deal with which is exactly 0 fun to play against, so the whole card design is a push and pull between making the person with the card want to shoot themselves (because they can't play the damn thing) and making the person without the card want to shoot themselves (because they can't deal with the damn thing when it's in play). It's like having a set where the focal point is multiple cards that are more powerful than darksteel colossus... oh wait, it's exactly that. So w/e, it doesn't necessarily have to screw up the set for drafting, but it's still stupid design IMO. It's a concept that is innately unfun IMO.
god do I hate mythic being an excuse to hide behind for limited balance. go lose a PTQ top 8 draft because some fucking tard managed to open Garruk Wildspeaker and play it on turn 4 in 2 games and then come back and tell me that rarity makes planeswalkers acceptable. If anything, it's even more infuriating that each draft you'll usually have 1 dude who just hits the lottery and has some gamebreakingly powerful and resilient threat handed to them on a silver platter. Again, I understand that people can beat them and yea, I've won plenty of limited matches vs. planeswalkers, but it's still stupid that they're basically just tacked onto the game and don't have anything really devoted to removing them. They just don't feel like they belong in the game, yet Wizards seems to be running with them as a fixture in the game now.
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I think MTGO is a great practice tool if you're a tournament player. Especially if you don't have any local pros to play with. If you're a consistent player, the decks you build will pay for themselves in tournament results. (Standard is the optimal format to do this with, the prices of older cards on MTGO are very inflated)
Limited, unfortunately, is almost a guaranteed money sink. In order to break even you'll have to consistently place 1st or 2nd in the 8-4 queues. The skill difference between those players and the average player that signs up for a standard daily event is usually worlds apart.
I don't really know much about the casual formats, but I know there are a wide variety supported on MTGO if that's your thing.
I tried playing solely MTGO when I moved, and I found myself missing the experience of fine tuning decks with my playtest group, getting ready for tournaments together, etc. You can't beat how much better playing in multiple Standard tournaments every day makes you though. :\
To sum it up, I think MTGO is a great supplemental practice tool for tournament players who don't have a group of skilled players to test with, or who don't have a very big local scene.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 23 2010 02:41 Mogwai wrote:
my point about the eldrazi is that their card design is stupid, less than their card design is imbalanced. basically they're threats that are impossible to deal with which is exactly 0 fun to play against, so the whole card design is a push and pull between making the person with the card want to shoot themselves (because they can't play the damn thing) and making the person without the card want to shoot themselves (because they can't deal with the damn thing when it's in play). It's like having a set where the focal point is multiple cards that are more powerful than darksteel colossus... oh wait, it's exactly that. So w/e, it doesn't necessarily have to screw up the set for drafting, but it's still stupid design IMO. It's a concept that is innately unfun IMO.
TBH, the only Eldrazi that actually protects himself is Emrakul. And he primarily sees play in the eternal formats, where far more ridiculous things have existed.
On September 23 2010 02:41 Mogwai wrote:
god do I hate mythic being an excuse to hide behind for limited balance. go lose a PTQ top 8 draft because some fucking tard managed to open Garruk Wildspeaker and play it on turn 4 in 2 games and then come back and tell me that rarity makes planeswalkers acceptable. If anything, it's even more infuriating that each draft you'll usually have 1 dude who just hits the lottery and has some gamebreakingly powerful and resilient threat handed to them on a silver platter. Again, I understand that people can beat them and yea, I've won plenty of limited matches vs. planeswalkers, but it's still stupid that they're basically just tacked onto the game and don't have anything really devoted to removing them. They just don't feel like they belong in the game, yet Wizards seems to be running with them as a fixture in the game now.
Core Set draft is a really poor example to use. The lack of inherent synergy in the card design means that Limited always devolves into whoever pulled more bombs and removal, regardless of rarity. The fact that some of them have a little orange rarity symbol doesn't change that.
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United States13274 Posts
i don't think I've ever done a core set draft. other than complaining that they brought lightning bolt back in my previous post, what makes you think I'm talking about core set drafts?
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Because that's what people are drafting right now....
While I agree with some of your points on draft, I have to step in and say that perpetual complaining about "the direction" of the game gets thrown around a lot in every set. Especially in limited where your ability to control the randomness is well...limited.
Case in point, I had 1 Tome Scour in my last draft deck, I drew it every game. Scoured an opponent's bombs (Ascetic, Liliana, Doom Blade, Platinum Angel, etc.) every time. Shit happens in draft, deal with it.
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yeah core set draft is like a real format now. that people don't hate. they've been improving them a lot
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On September 23 2010 01:19 TheYango wrote:IMO none of the Proliferate cards are strong enough to be really relevant to PWs. A single loyalty counter isn't worth the cost for most of the Proliferate cards. It'll buy you a turn tops against beatdown, and getting you closer to the ult is rarely worth anything because the ult is so unlikely. On the other hand, it'll keep Pyromancer combo playable in Extended, which I support because Pyromancer is one of the few combos that isn't completely noninteractive. Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:13 kuresuti wrote:
Looking forward to some Planeswalker removal. I'd be surprised if they just keep ignoring them.
Ratchet BombShow nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:19 Crushgroove wrote:
Main problem with mtgo is no vintage play. For some of us older kids, that's the only format we play. If you allow vintage on MTGO, don't you get into shady territory whether virtual copies of those cards violates the reprint policy?
They've been "printing" no-reprint cards in the Master's Editions for a while now.
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I used to play exclusively constructed online EVERY day and had spread sheets to keep track of my spendings/earnings, and I can tell you that it is very time consuming...
best thing to do is find a backer at a local card store and get to know them..(someone who owns EVERYTHING online) and then borrow decks for days/weekends/events, whatever...
and then give them 1 pack for every so many you win etc..
best way to play..
avoid constructed formats that you don't have a good grasp or are very draw dependent.. not worth playing in for $
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United States47024 Posts
On September 23 2010 03:40 Mogwai wrote:
i don't think I've ever done a core set draft. other than complaining that they brought lightning bolt back in my previous post, what makes you think I'm talking about core set drafts?
Garruk wasn't mythic in Lorwyn. Mythic didn't exist yet, so in order for you to lose to a mythic Garruk, it had to be a core set draft.
If I'm jumping to conclusions, I apologize.
On September 23 2010 03:46 UniversalSnip wrote:
yeah core set draft is like a real format now. that people don't hate. they've been improving them a lot
M11 is a playable limited format, it's true. But that's largely because it's comparing to M10 (which, despite the hype, was still a bland Limited format), and Zen/Zen/Wwk (which was even worse than core set Limited formats). And it obviously doesn't compare to RoE draft.
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United States13274 Posts
hmm, my recollection of the introduction of mythic is off then.
I was thinking of Lorwyn... Mythic was in Shards then?
well, anyway, I still think planeswalkers are stupid, but w/e, I'm coming off as a crotchety old man, so just ignore me.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 23 2010 06:39 Mogwai wrote:
well, anyway, I still think planeswalkers are stupid, but w/e, I'm coming off as a crotchety old man, so just ignore me.
As a concept, I agree. But in the case of Limited, I don't think a bomb PW is really any more ridiculous than bomb rares in similar formats.
In constructed, we could have a whole discussion about how new Jace is worth more than Revised dual lands.
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On September 23 2010 06:41 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 06:39 Mogwai wrote:
well, anyway, I still think planeswalkers are stupid, but w/e, I'm coming off as a crotchety old man, so just ignore me. As a concept, I agree. But in the case of Limited, I don't think a bomb PW is really any more ridiculous than bomb rares in similar formats. In constructed, we could have a whole discussion about how new Jace is worth more than Revised dual lands.
Yes, I lost a match even after resolving my Ajani. Personally I find PWs fun and different, I mean it could have been done better, but hey if MtG played it safe, we would have some pretty bland sets after so long.
Seriously though, fuck new Jace. Fuck him up and down. I get into my local scene and everyone is looking to trade for a new Jace or Baneslayer, worst part is that nobody knows why the fuck they want one beyond it's card advantage hurhurhur.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 23 2010 10:17 Judicator wrote:
Seriously though, fuck new Jace. Fuck him up and down. I get into my local scene and everyone is looking to trade for a new Jace or Baneslayer, worst part is that nobody knows why the fuck they want one beyond it's card advantage hurhurhur.
How about "when I untap with one in play, the other guy scoops"? 
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On September 23 2010 10:24 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 10:17 Judicator wrote:
Seriously though, fuck new Jace. Fuck him up and down. I get into my local scene and everyone is looking to trade for a new Jace or Baneslayer, worst part is that nobody knows why the fuck they want one beyond it's card advantage hurhurhur. How about "when I untap with one in play, the other guy scoops"?
I haven't looked at the scene too in depth yet, I know the chase rares but that's about it, no real look into constructed play other than some concepts that weren't around when I last played. I am just saying you got scrubs chasing things that they really don't understand why it's a chase.
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Does anyone remember Etherlords? This was actually a pretty nifty game, pity it got forgotten/abandoned.
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EPT
