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On September 28 2012 07:47 Judicator wrote:
Azorius' Detain is just tons better than anything else.
Do you really think so? I just feel like Azorius is going to be so slow. So you detained my guys for a turn? I'll just use that turn to populate and continue to overwhelm.
Outside of the wrath I don't see why you would pick Azorius over Selesnya.
Azorius has the removal and a guaranteed game-winning bomb
Selesnya has the creature base and can easily make the populate mechanic work
I'm usually all about removal, but is the detain effect going to be THAT much of a factor? Then again, Azorius is UW, so splashing the small amount of g necessary to play a few of the better Selesnya cards I might crack seems reasonable. Now that I'm thinking about it Azorious wins with card advantage as well. Now I'm all confuzzled. I wish I wasn't so bad at Magic T_T
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Getting a temporary Arrest seems good especially when its on a stick. It's how UW decks have won in previous limited with cards like Unsummon (not the same I know, but Unsummon also didn't come on a body).
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For me it comes down to whether I want to be splashing the green or splashing the blue. In my opinion, the blue splash is easier if I have access to green ramp spells. I also think the Selesnya promo card is going to play better than the Azorius (7 mana seems awful late)
Edit: Ugh, but Azo has a better time gaining card advantage. I keep forgetting about card advantage.
Do you think the tempo advantage and eventual card draw of Azo will be better than the ability to land creatures consistently until you have an empty hand in Sel?
Double Edit: Anyone know of an rtr sealed/draft tester?
Triple Edit: My googlefu is weak. http://zfire.dk/mtg/?format=sealed
Quad Edit: Hmmm... Sel seems really blowout-prone if I rely too heavily on populate... Editing is fun...
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Look, there's just so much tempo in Azorius. Selesnya's card power I would say is slightly higher but not enough to overcome the fact that Detain is very good for limited while Populate is average at best.
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Looking at what I've been getting out of the packs and I think I'm going to have to agree on Azo being a little better in practice than Sel. I thought Azo would be too slow, but Sel feels just as slow, maybe slightly faster, as Azo. The endgame for Azo has been card advantage, Sel has been landing massive amounts of beaters. Both require me to get up there in turns and I think if I'm going to be playing for the late game Azo is probably the better choice, just because card draw feels more reliable to me than populate (see my earlier comment on populate being vulnerable to removal)
Edit: Question. If I bounce one of my own creatures back to my hand in response to the qhite exile/populate card being played, does the populate still go off? I'm assuming yes, but I'm bad, so I'm asking.
Double Edit: Am I right to be afraid of Rakdos?
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why are you setting up for lategame when you can just detain a few creatures and curve out with flyers?
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On September 28 2012 09:30 MCMcEmcee wrote:
why are you setting up for lategame when you can just detain a few creatures and curve out with flyers?
Basically this.
You're overthinking it and you need to be more specific on the Populate question.
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woah im way late nm me lol
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On September 28 2012 09:30 MCMcEmcee wrote:
why are you setting up for lategame when you can just detain a few creatures and curve out with flyers?
Good question. So you think a 17 aggressive tempo/flyer will be better than 18 land play for the late? I like the sound of that.
5W
Exile target creature. Populate.
I if bounce the creature he has targeted populate still goes off yeah?
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On September 28 2012 09:48 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 09:30 MCMcEmcee wrote:
why are you setting up for lategame when you can just detain a few creatures and curve out with flyers? Good question. So you think a 17 aggressive tempo/flyer will be better than 18 land play for the late? I like the sound of that. 5W Exile target creature. Populate. I if bounce the creature he has targeted populate still goes off yeah?
As far as I know given the wording, if that's the exact wording, then yes.
Edit: I should point out this is given based on the ruling and wording of Leeching Bite.
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On September 28 2012 09:50 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 09:48 Risen wrote:On September 28 2012 09:30 MCMcEmcee wrote:
why are you setting up for lategame when you can just detain a few creatures and curve out with flyers? Good question. So you think a 17 aggressive tempo/flyer will be better than 18 land play for the late? I like the sound of that. 5W Exile target creature. Populate. I if bounce the creature he has targeted populate still goes off yeah? As far as I know given the wording, if that's the exact wording, then yes. Edit: I should point out this is given based on the ruling and wording of Leeching Bite.
Seems to me like they'd work the same. Thanks for responding  (As for the comparisons earlier, I think it's fairly clear that Judi is the Kwark of the mtg thread)
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As far as I know if the target of Trostani's Judgement is no longer a legal target by the time the spell resolves, then the entire spell would be countered.
This is because populate is not targeted, so the spell no longer has legal targets.
Leeching Bite is different in that there are two targets (note the use of the word target twice, as opposed to Trostani's Judgment using it only once), so making one an illegal target (by bouncing or giving it hexproof or pro green etc etc) means the spell still has legal targets.
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On September 28 2012 10:37 Megaman703 wrote:
As far as I know if the target of Trostani's Judgement is no longer a legal target by the time the spell resolves, then the entire spell would be countered.
This is because populate is not targeted, so the spell no longer has legal targets.
Leeching Bite is different in that there are two targets (note the use of the word target twice, as opposed to Trostani's Judgment using it only once), so making one an illegal target (by bouncing or giving it hexproof or pro green etc etc) means the spell still has legal targets.
If the effects are separated by a period, as it is the case here, then the illegal target has no effect on the populate. I understand what you are saying, but multi-effect spells separated by a period are not entirely nullified, and that's how I am reading the card.
Edit:
Argument is pointless just checked out the actual card and it's oracle text, separated by a comma.
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On September 28 2012 10:57 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 10:37 Megaman703 wrote:
As far as I know if the target of Trostani's Judgement is no longer a legal target by the time the spell resolves, then the entire spell would be countered.
This is because populate is not targeted, so the spell no longer has legal targets.
Leeching Bite is different in that there are two targets (note the use of the word target twice, as opposed to Trostani's Judgment using it only once), so making one an illegal target (by bouncing or giving it hexproof or pro green etc etc) means the spell still has legal targets. If the effects are separated by a period, as it is the case here, then the illegal target has no effect on the populate. I understand what you are saying, but multi-effect spells separated by a period are not entirely nullified, and that's how I am reading the card. Edit: Argument is pointless just checked out the actual card and it's oracle text, separated by a comma.
Yup, typed it in wrong. Was on my phone at the time. Sorry about that >.<
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I too think azorious will be the best, but I want to be able to play every stab wound I open. I think it is way better than any other common in the set.
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On September 23 2010 01:19 TheYango wrote:IMO none of the Proliferate cards are strong enough to be really relevant to PWs. A single loyalty counter isn't worth the cost for most of the Proliferate cards. It'll buy you a turn tops against beatdown, and getting you closer to the ult is rarely worth anything because the ult is so unlikely. On the other hand, it'll keep Pyromancer combo playable in Extended, which I support because Pyromancer is one of the few combos that isn't completely noninteractive. Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:13 kuresuti wrote:
Looking forward to some Planeswalker removal. I'd be surprised if they just keep ignoring them.
Ratchet BombShow nested quote +On September 23 2010 01:19 Crushgroove wrote:
Main problem with mtgo is no vintage play. For some of us older kids, that's the only format we play. If you allow vintage on MTGO, don't you get into shady territory whether virtual copies of those cards violates the reprint policy?
They have already printed cards on the restricted list on MTGO and it has not changed the market as far as I can tell... the physical cards should hold value for collectors etc.
The problem is, would anyone freaking play Vintage online? No one plays classic, and few play legacy at least compared to paper, some legacy events don't fire at least last time I was on MTGO, compare that to standard daily events that fill to capacity sometimes, so the demand is not there other than the select few who will play, and the backlash from the community over the printing of the power etc cause it "might" affect their card prices would probably be bigger then the benefit from printing them for online play.
The fact is not many people play vintage, it's had a small following forever but it's never grown, not like Legacy did.
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On September 28 2012 11:18 DCLXVI wrote:
I too think azorious will be the best, but I want to be able to play every stab wound I open. I think it is way better than any other common in the set.
Prerelease is sealed, not draft. You'll be lucky to see more than 2 (Will most likely have only 1)
Edit: This unfortunately applies to my feelings on being able to get 2 or 3 centaur healers. For the most part I've been getting one.
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On September 28 2012 10:57 Judicator wrote:
If the effects are separated by a period, as it is the case here, then the illegal target has no effect on the populate. I understand what you are saying, but multi-effect spells separated by a period are not entirely nullified, and that's how I am reading the card.
Trostani's Judgment aside, I thought that was how it worked. Compare with Dramatic Rescue and its rulings.
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On September 28 2012 11:32 Megaman703 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 10:57 Judicator wrote:
If the effects are separated by a period, as it is the case here, then the illegal target has no effect on the populate. I understand what you are saying, but multi-effect spells separated by a period are not entirely nullified, and that's how I am reading the card.
Trostani's Judgment aside, I thought that was how it worked. Compare with Dramatic Rescue and its rulings.
I stand corrected. I always thought the period meant it does.
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EPT
