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On April 10 2012 05:13 ManyCookies wrote:
Honestly, that's not a terrible ratio of potentially broken (i.e not most Commons) to broken cards.
That logic is the equivalent of Wizards thinking Black Lotus/Time Walks being ok because nobody would put 4 of them into a deck. That's the dilemma faced by R/D when they build a set/block, you can be ok on 999/1000 cards, but if that last one is too good, it warps the format. Lingering Souls already warped block constructed and it's showing up in decks that have no business playing it like Frites.
Sidebar:
Like with UB dying down as the lone control deck, Finkel's version of Delver seems to be a lot better than Costa's UW. Also, that Esper control build, is so draw dependent (except you get; you get hands where you can't beat Delver and you get hands where you can't lose against Delver (but still do because their top deck is still better than yours). In either case, your deck has to be able to beat Delver, both turn 1 Delver and turn 3 Lingering Souls in Standard right now, or you really don't stand a chance.
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Oh no, I'm not saying they don't have a huge (negative) influence on a format. By that logic, a 1CMC "Win the Game" card would be alright. I'm addressing Wizard's QA testing. Out of all the cards that could potentially be broken, they test well enough that only a few are.
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On April 10 2012 05:31 ManyCookies wrote:
Oh no, I'm not saying they don't have a huge (negative) influence on a format. By that logic, a 1CMC "Win the Game" card would be alright. I'm addressing Wizard's QA testing. Out of all the cards that could potentially be broken, they test well enough that only a few are.
Notice the examples I pointed out are things that should have been pretty obvious in playtesting and more signficantly, Wizards have almost immediately come out and said maybe that wasn't such a good idea. The Jace effect I can kind of understand but makes me question their testers, covering up a card's potential with another broken mechanic/card (how many balanced free spell mechanics have there been?) should have raised some eyebrows at the FFL.
The Stoneforge example, I have no clue what the fuck was going through their minds. Somehow covering a broken Stoneforge with Deceiver combo would have balanced the format, oh wait it didn't.
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Miracle effect reads you may cast it when you draw it if it is the first card you drew this turn. This practically means that you must cast it soon as it is drawn, so it is going to be same as the madness effect.
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On April 10 2012 05:09 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 04:53 DCLXVI wrote:On April 10 2012 04:09 dignity wrote:
You have to first discard a card. The discard effect occurs immediately after you draw, so you have to discard before casting miracle. But can you then cast the miracle that is in your hand with other cards? Would you set aside the miracle card you drew and then played it after discarding? It's simple. You can't interrupt the resolving Merfolk Looter activated ability, so Looter has to finish resolving before you can miracle.
That does not answer what I was getting at. I wanted to know how, when actually playing with cards, one is to loot and then cast a miracle. does a judge have to watch, or does the drawn card stay in a separate area from the rest of the hand until the looting finished.
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On April 10 2012 07:26 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 05:09 Judicator wrote:On April 10 2012 04:53 DCLXVI wrote:On April 10 2012 04:09 dignity wrote:
You have to first discard a card. The discard effect occurs immediately after you draw, so you have to discard before casting miracle. But can you then cast the miracle that is in your hand with other cards? Would you set aside the miracle card you drew and then played it after discarding? It's simple. You can't interrupt the resolving Merfolk Looter activated ability, so Looter has to finish resolving before you can miracle. That does not answer what I was getting at. I wanted to know how, when actually playing with cards, one is to loot and then cast a miracle. does a judge have to watch, or does the drawn card stay in a separate area from the rest of the hand until the looting finished.
You reveal the card before it enters into your hand with the rest of your cards(if you wish to cast it as a miracle reveal the card, technically, you dont have to reveal it if you dont wish to cast it that turn, but if you choose not too dont try to get away with casting it 5 seconds later), You then discard a card. You then resolve your miracle ability IF the card is still in your hand at resolution of the ability.
So I tap my merfolk looter, I look at the top of card of my library, it's a miracle, I show my opponent the miracle. The miracle goes into my hand, I resolve my looter ability. At this point my miracle ability is now on the stack, and I choose to cast it. I cast my miracle.
OR: I tap my merfolk looter, i look at top card, I reveal it's a miracle to my opponent. I resolve my looter ability by discarding my miracle. I then can't cast the miracle as it's in my graveyard. I pass priority or what not and the miracle trigger goes away.
No need for a judge to watch, if you put the card in your hand before you reveal it your simply not going to be able to cast it as a miracle.
The comprehensive rules haven't been released yet, we will know 100% how it works as of then, but they have already said on twitter you can't discard the miracle with desperate ravings and looter and still cast it.
I don't understand why the drawn card would have to stay separate? If you have shown that's the card you drew by revealing it.. then what are you gonna do? If you had one in your hand already, and choose to cast that one, it changes nothing(you still have one in your hand or one in your grave, doesn't change anything about the game unless im missing something). I don't see how you could cheat, since you'd still have the same one if your hand.
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On April 10 2012 07:26 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 05:09 Judicator wrote:On April 10 2012 04:53 DCLXVI wrote:On April 10 2012 04:09 dignity wrote:
You have to first discard a card. The discard effect occurs immediately after you draw, so you have to discard before casting miracle. But can you then cast the miracle that is in your hand with other cards? Would you set aside the miracle card you drew and then played it after discarding? It's simple. You can't interrupt the resolving Merfolk Looter activated ability, so Looter has to finish resolving before you can miracle. That does not answer what I was getting at. I wanted to know how, when actually playing with cards, one is to loot and then cast a miracle. does a judge have to watch, or does the drawn card stay in a separate area from the rest of the hand until the looting finished.
It sounds like it functions like Madness except Madness had specific text that Miracle doesn't. So I am not sure, I am not sure if the ability is static or a triggered one.
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On April 10 2012 07:52 BlueBird. wrote:
I don't understand why the drawn card would have to stay separate? If you have shown that's the card you drew by revealing it.. then what are you gonna do? If you had one in your hand already, and choose to cast that one, it changes nothing(you still have one in your hand or one in your grave, doesn't change anything about the game unless im missing something). I don't see how you could cheat, since you'd still have the same one if your hand.
If you have a copy of the miracle card already in your hand, if you don't keep it separate during the looting, you can't know if you discarded the old card or the new one.
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On April 10 2012 08:16 Seth_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 07:52 BlueBird. wrote:
I don't understand why the drawn card would have to stay separate? If you have shown that's the card you drew by revealing it.. then what are you gonna do? If you had one in your hand already, and choose to cast that one, it changes nothing(you still have one in your hand or one in your grave, doesn't change anything about the game unless im missing something). I don't see how you could cheat, since you'd still have the same one if your hand. If you have a copy of the miracle card already in your hand, if you don't keep it separate during the looting, you can't know if you discarded the old card or the new one.
I don't see how that makes a difference during looting, can't think of any cards where that would be an issue. Your still casting one, and discarding one. I guess it does make a difference with desperate ravings though.
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I feel like Miracle is going to result in a lot more cheating at all level because it's really hard to regulate. You have to force the opposing player to watch their draw step while also having to think about the best possible plays at the current time. kind of annoying in my opinion.
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On April 10 2012 08:21 BlueBird. wrote:I guess it does make a difference with desperate ravings though.
Oh yeah, I was mixing up faithless looting and desperate ravings.
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For some sick reason I keep seeing a W/G deck using Cloudshift and Restoration Angel along with Stonehorn Dignitary and Acidic Slime to make life hell for the opponent. Throw in Fiend Hunter and heck, throw in some U for Snapcaster. Are there any standard legal creatures that let you draw cards when ETB?
Edit: Mentor of the Meek?
Probably too slow for the current standard with Delver and Humans and Lingering Souls though.
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slow down there conley woods, some kind of bant deck is possible with restored.
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On April 10 2012 08:45 Shotcoder wrote:
I feel like Miracle is going to result in a lot more cheating at all level because it's really hard to regulate. You have to force the opposing player to watch their draw step while also having to think about the best possible plays at the current time. kind of annoying in my opinion.
I'm assuming the tournament ruling is "If you put it into the rest of your hand, you didn't miracle it".
That said, I know a lot of people who just unconciously put the top card into their hand, and our group generally multitasks a bit and doesn't have their full attention on the game. And it's going to create a lot of "He did not, did so, did not" situations in casual (or even tournament). I like the idea of the mechanic, but there's just a whole shit load of abuse/conflict potential. At least Leylines were only for the initial shuffle/draw.
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My cube draft story from the weekend on MTGO:
Drafted a red-white deck won the first game and got mana screwed the second game against my green-blue-white opponent.
In the third game my opponent drops a Mirari's Wake, then the following turn casts Genesis Wave for 15, getting enough lands to also drop Opposition. I had three plains in play, a handful of burn (enough to burn him out) and four cmc spells.
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What kind of draft formats on MTGO would be good for someone just getting into the game? I haven't played since 4th edition (i'm old) and basically completely forgot how to play. But watching some streams has got me interested again, so I'm gonna make an account.
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On April 10 2012 12:36 Bluebush wrote:
What kind of draft formats on MTGO would be good for someone just getting into the game? I haven't played since 4th edition (i'm old) and basically completely forgot how to play. But watching some streams has got me interested again, so I'm gonna make an account.
M12 is the easiest by far, cards are simple, archetypes are very obvious and not contingent on a few rare cards.
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Must be good spoilers today. It's been five minutes and I still can't get on the MtG website.
Green Mythic Creature:
+ Show Spoiler +
Is it Green spoiler day? I don't think that combo decks like to attack with creatures all that much:
+ Show Spoiler +
Promo cards for the Prerelease:
Angel Maker:
+ Show Spoiler +
Alternate Art Restoration Angel:
+ Show Spoiler +
"It's like Invisible Stalker, except it dies to Geistflame!" "So not like Invisble Stalker at all then."
+ Show Spoiler +
Die tokens:
+ Show Spoiler +
Alternate Art Silverblade Paladin:
+ Show Spoiler +
And from Star City Games:
"You know how we agreed to give black some undercosted creatures requiring sacrifices?"
"Yeah, thanks for that."
"Well fuck you.":
+ Show Spoiler +
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That Paladin is faaaabulous.
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Angel of Jubilation also shuts down Birthing Pod and Phyrexian Mana. Going further back it gets Fetchlands and forces Shocklands to always come into play tapped. If you can get it into play it can also make Force of Will have to be hardcast in Legacy.
The Green cards are interesting, but feel out of place in the set. The giant creature so big that it's footprints become lakes? How are we just seeing this now? Druidism don't really align with what we've seen from the humans of Innistrad from the last two sets either.
Killing Wave already has a counter in Sigarda, but still seems pretty nuts.
Like the alternate arts, especially the symbol of Avacyn on the spear of the paladin.
Edit: Thought Killing Wave was mana not life. Seems worse now. Good opponents will always be able to make the optimal choice.
For those wondering about Miracle, it's a static ability linked to a triggered ability. I don't know what that means, but here's the rulings for it:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/activity/947
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