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On October 22 2010 09:55 SeaweedToss wrote:
idk about "plenty" that can actually compete with tier 1 and 2 decks though. pox, led-less dredge, elves, stompy, maybe burn, maybe high tide with no forces in the right meta, maybe some kind of budget storm deck. I cant think of any others under $100 off the top of my head that stand a real chance.
And some of these decks seem like rogue decks. I would say pox, led-less dredge, and maybe a storm deck are the few that would have good match ups all around. Especially in game 1.
and a budget storm list seems slow and a bit fragile though
decks like pox and led-less dredge can run at full power withought any expensive cards.
Well good is a fighting chance against the archetypes. Considering the format and what decks cost these days, that's a pretty good number of viable decks for under $100.
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Thats the thing about legacy: its so vast, that no deck can (in the possibility) beat every single deck. And that fact does not account into budget. But from a legacy player perspective, the only deck that wouldn´t need anymore expensive upgrades, from its budget incarnation, its dredge. Everysingle one - okay its budget, it might win games, but with force of will, wastelands and duals, it would win more.
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I would say pox also. There are several versions of pox: mono black discard heavy with rack, mono black with more land destruction (tends to be crucible pox...with wastelands sinkholes etc), contamination pox (bitter blossom, wastes, sinks), BG pox (gofys, wastes, life from the loam), WB pox etc. I've played them all.
By far my most favorite and most consistant is still a $40 mono black discard heavy pox with racks. This build does not need or use sinkholes, wastlands, crucible, contamination, bitter blossom, life from the loam and goyfs obviously, or thoughtseize etc (great discard, but terrible in a pox deck where every single point of life matters in the slow and close race to 0). I prefer to run discard heavy pox with racks because I run 0 cards that are dead draws. Also every card in my deck has a converted mana cost of 1 except for pox, small pox, nihilth, and hymn. This allows me to keep the land count lower and run massive disruption with a few more threats. Sinkhole, wasteland, dark ritual, crucible, contamination, bitter blossom are all horrible late game top decks. This is why I do not run any of them.
For people that play pox you know that after the first 5-6 turns the game turns into top deck mode. Its a long and slow race to pluck a few points of life off of them here and there and take away their threats or lock them down. Playing multiple dead draws (most of those expensive cards listed above + dark rit) in my opinion is just an inconsistant way to play a pox deck.
Obivously dark rit is a super good card in almost any deck that needs mana excel (suicide black or any combo deck or 99% of decks). But this is not the way to play a pox deck. You dont want excel. You want as few dead draws as possible, because you have nothing you need to excel for in a pox deck. Card advantage is key in pox.
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Pox sounds like a decent choice because
A) If you can't spend money your deck is gonna be pretty bad
B) People run terrible manabases in this format (the last time I played it anyway)
you are going to get most of your wins from people being manascrewed... your best strat therefore is to run something with the most consistent draws possible that helps their mana fail.
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back then there was a solar pox deck that had smallpox in conjunction with haakon stromgald scourge to reuse court hussars. fun deck with nice sutble interactions like using smallpox to discard haakon or a fattie (usually akroma, angel of despair, skeletal vampire which u can recur later), u sac a flagstones of trokair, and reusing court hussars to flashback dread return.
awesome twist to the then popular solar flare decks (blue/white/black control basically)
i love playing deathcloud + garruck deck back then too
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So, I've just started out playing magic and don't have a large budget but I've put together the deck below as a sort of Mono blue mill/lifegain deck, was considering swapping the Shapeshifter for 3 Jace Belerens, what do you guys think?
Artifacts
3x Venser's Journal
3x Sword of Body and Mind
3x Whispersilk Cloak
Creatures
4x Hedron Crab
4x Halimar Excavator
4x Sea Gate Loremaster
3x Jwari Shapeshifter
Land
20x Island
4x Halimar Depths
Spells
4x Turn Aside
4x Archive Trap
4x Tome Scour
*edited for stupidity >.<*
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On October 25 2010 10:18 Lucian wrote:
So, I've just started out playing magic and don't have a large budget but I've put together the deck below as a sort of Mono blue control/lifegain deck, was considering swapping the Shapeshifter for 3 Jace Belerens, what do you guys think?
Artifacts
3x Venser's Journal
3x Sword of Body and Mind
3x Whispersilk Cloak
Creatures
4x Hedron Crab
4x Halimar Excavator
4x Sea Gate Loremaster
3x Jwari Shapeshifter
Land
20x Island
4x Halimar Depths
Spells
4x Turn Aside
4x Archive Trap
4x Tome Scour
Your deck is very.. straightforward, mill them asap.. It doesn't look much like a control deck too me, I would 100% cut whispersilk cload, and probably cut sword of body and mind as well.. you can probably find something else for those spots that will further your goal of milling them asap
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On October 25 2010 10:18 Lucian wrote:
So, I've just started out playing magic and don't have a large budget but I've put together the deck below as a sort of Mono blue mill/lifegain deck, was considering swapping the Shapeshifter for 3 Jace Belerens, what do you guys think?
Artifacts
3x Venser's Journal
3x Sword of Body and Mind
3x Whispersilk Cloak
Creatures
4x Hedron Crab
4x Halimar Excavator
4x Sea Gate Loremaster
3x Jwari Shapeshifter
Land
20x Island
4x Halimar Depths
Spells
4x Turn Aside
4x Archive Trap
4x Tome Scour
*edited for stupidity >.<*
what is the point of gaining life?
use fetches with hedron crab. and if you dont have fetches at least run terramorphic expanse and/or evolving wilds.
maybe try trapmaker's snare purely for getting the archive traps. maybe a singleton mindbreak trap.
run 4 mana leaks. no reason not to.
oh and if a person has a single big eldrazi in their deck you are fucked.
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On October 25 2010 12:32 Orpheos wrote:
what is the point of gaining life?
use fetches with hedron crab. and if you dont have fetches at least run terramorphic expanse and/or evolving wilds.
maybe try trapmaker's snare purely for getting the archive traps. maybe a singleton mindbreak trap.
run 4 mana leaks. no reason not to.
oh and if a person has a single big eldrazi in their deck you are fucked.
Well it was more just designed to keep me alive long enough to mill my opponent out, it's not meant as a competitive deck more just one for when i'm facing my friends white lifegain deck...
Is their a site that sort of has a list of popular/good deck builds?
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On October 25 2010 13:08 Lucian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 12:32 Orpheos wrote:
what is the point of gaining life?
use fetches with hedron crab. and if you dont have fetches at least run terramorphic expanse and/or evolving wilds.
maybe try trapmaker's snare purely for getting the archive traps. maybe a singleton mindbreak trap.
run 4 mana leaks. no reason not to.
oh and if a person has a single big eldrazi in their deck you are fucked.
Well it was more just designed to keep me alive long enough to mill my opponent out, it's not meant as a competitive deck more just one for when i'm facing my friends white lifegain deck... Is their a site that sort of has a list of popular/good deck builds?
umm not really anymore, deckcheck.net is down =/, there are lists of the latest tournament decks from mtgo, but Idk if the new set is out yet on MTGO, just google MTGO decks of the week I believe
tbh, if you want a tournament deck, you need to be willing to fork money out, and that is entirely up to you
, many just buy everything, cause they have the $ and want to be able to play what they want.
some form teams, collect tons of cards with the credit/prizes you win as a team
some borrow from friends
some just own 1 deck, play it in and out each week, until it rotates(I did this when I played back in Onslaught/Mirrodin)
some play casual/fun decks and don't dump $ into the game, cause they don't have the $ or don't care enough
so, you got to decide where you at, right now looks like your at casual decks..
also if your using a program like MWS, then disregard everything I just said and build w/e you want, it's up to you.
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Sigh, it's hard not to play the archetypes right now, I just went on a testing spree today online and I get smashed if I don't get the draws (think of the Quest decks). Zero fucking respect for those Valakut ramp decks, I can Memorcide and Duress all day and still lose to that bullshit.
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no reason to play lifegain in a mill deck, if mill is your win condition then focus on doing that faster rather than surviving longer
Judicator:
add Sadistic Sacrament, imo
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I've been playing a lot recently on OCTGN, it's a bit prettier looking that Magic Workstation.
Too cheap to try to build a real deck for standard. Introducing mythic rares was such a dick move. x.x
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United States47024 Posts
On October 25 2010 15:34 Jyvblamo wrote:
I've been playing a lot recently on OCTGN, it's a bit prettier looking that Magic Workstation.
Too cheap to try to build a real deck for standard. Introducing mythic rares was such a dick move. x.x
Mythics were OK until they realized that ignoring their policy of "no 4-of staples at mythic" made them more money.
On October 25 2010 13:35 BraveGhost wrote:
umm not really anymore, deckcheck.net is down =/, there are lists of the latest tournament decks from mtgo, but Idk if the new set is out yet on MTGO, just google MTGO decks of the week I believe
TCGPlayer has a decent archive of decklists, though its less regularly updated and has a lot of chaff.
Personally, I think if you're trying to seriously get into deck construction, starting with most constructed formats is far too daunting to get started with. The card pool is just way too large to handle for someone who has yet to develop good senses of card evaluation or basic Magic theory. Limited IMO is the best place to start for deck construction, because of how much smaller the card pool is. It lets you more easily analyze what choices you could have made differently. IMO start with sealed deck games if you can gather a group of friends or there's an event at a local store (draft is more cost-effective, but much less newbie-friendly). Plus, if you're playing casually with friends, you can re-build several decks out of the same sealed pool, which will help you get a much better sense of what cards are good and which ones aren't.
Trying to give deck advice without a sense of basic theory concepts like card advantage, tempo, etc. just isn't really worth the effort IMO. We could tell you how to "fix" the deck you have or give you a list, but ultimately that wouldn't help anyone.
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On October 25 2010 13:08 Lucian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 12:32 Orpheos wrote:
what is the point of gaining life?
use fetches with hedron crab. and if you dont have fetches at least run terramorphic expanse and/or evolving wilds.
maybe try trapmaker's snare purely for getting the archive traps. maybe a singleton mindbreak trap.
run 4 mana leaks. no reason not to.
oh and if a person has a single big eldrazi in their deck you are fucked.
Well it was more just designed to keep me alive long enough to mill my opponent out, it's not meant as a competitive deck more just one for when i'm facing my friends white lifegain deck... Is their a site that sort of has a list of popular/good deck builds?
the reason why lifegain for the sake of lifegain is bad, is that you waste cards while they still have their cards that are dealing you damage. if you just run a card that deals with their threat instead of the lifegain card, you automatically come out better.
cases where lifegain is fine is against red deck since it mirrors their spells. or if you use the lifegain to some effect like in the recent soul sisters deck with serra ascendents and ajani pridemates and survival caches
as for a starting deck, i would suggest maybe buying a precon and trying to add to it yourself.
and i would stay away from alternate wins like milling.
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Just a question, when I was watching the Grand Prix Toronto yesterday I saw alot of people using their Trigon of Corruption and proliferating w/ contagion clasp while it was their opponents turn and untapped and did it again when it was their turn... Are you allowed to activate those types of abilities on their turn so long as you have the mana??
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On October 26 2010 08:30 Nub4ever wrote:
Just a question, when I was watching the Grand Prix Toronto yesterday I saw alot of people using their Trigon of Corruption and proliferating w/ contagion clasp while it was their opponents turn and untapped and did it again when it was their turn... Are you allowed to activate those types of abilities on their turn so long as you have the mana??
Yes, abilities are instant which means you can use them at any time you have priority, unless the ability states otherwise of course.
Sometimes it's good to wait with your ability until the last minute, you don't want to use up all your mana and then need it later.
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On October 26 2010 08:30 Nub4ever wrote:
Just a question, when I was watching the Grand Prix Toronto yesterday I saw alot of people using their Trigon of Corruption and proliferating w/ contagion clasp while it was their opponents turn and untapped and did it again when it was their turn... Are you allowed to activate those types of abilities on their turn so long as you have the mana??
Yup.
All these things can be used pretty much whenever you want, unless the card says otherwise:
Instants
Abilities (except planeswalker abilities)
Anything with the word flash
A few mechanics, like unearth, can't be played whenever you want. When it doubt, try looking at a common with the same ability, they usually have the full workings spelled out.
Usually you want to play things at the last possible moment. So abilities tend to get played at the end of the opponent's turns.
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been playing for about 2 months now and just got a decent burn deck thanks to Scars
Artifacts
2x Whispersilk Cloak
4x Vulshok Replica
4x Steel Hellkite
4x Iron Myr
4x Palladium Myr
Enchantments
2x Claws of Valakut
Land
20x Mountain
Spells
4x Burst Lightning
4x Galvanic Blast
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Cerebral Eruption
4x Fireball
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On October 26 2010 09:07 Shotcoder wrote:
been playing for about 2 months now and just got a decent burn deck thanks to Scars
Artifacts
2x Whispersilk Cloak
4x Vulshok Replica
4x Steel Hellkite
4x Iron Myr
4x Palladium Myr
Enchantments
2x Claws of Valakut
Land
20x Mountain
Spells
4x Burst Lightning
4x Galvanic Blast
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Cerebral Eruption
4x Fireball
hmmm. i would take out the cereberal eruption and put in staggershocks. take out cloaks and claws and put in searing blazes. maybe add kiln fiend+assault strobe.
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EPT
