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At first I found the PvE a bit boring because it felt like I was just wandering around aimlessly but I think that was because it breaks away from the traditional style of MMO questing and I wasn't used to it. It has a certain console-game feel to it with all the markers and large explorable areas and I started to have a lot of fun completing each area's objectives, especially trying to find all the "hidden" points in the map. IMO a lot of the people who are not enjoying this style of play boils down to this exact issue. Traditional MMOs has a very distinct, simplistic, and addicitive motivator (e.g. the kill 10 rats), but GW2 breaks away from that where it is more about the journey (i.e. exploration) where the fun is derived. It is (to me at least) also far less addicting in that I could very easily play 20 mins and then quit, though I can see how others might enjoy a more addictive game. But for me at least a game being addictive does not necessarily equate to fun.
On the PvP front again I was initially turned off by the pre-set skills associated with your weapons, however again as I got more in to it I'm confident there is more than enough depth for builds to keep PvP fresh and interesting for a very long time. And from a game design perspective I really think it was very well thoughtout as they can just add more weapons (and thus more skill sets) for expansions and keep things a lot cleaner from a balance standpoint. I think for anyone to say the skill system is too simplistic has not even scratched the surface of it.
Factor that in with no sub fee and I'm sold. I think this is going to be a very casual-friendly MMO which will be right up my ally as I don't have nearly as much time as I did in my younger years. I'll admit though for the hardcore grinders it might not be what they are looking for.
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On July 24 2012 01:33 Firebolt145 wrote:
I'm wondering if we should do a bit of comparison to WoW here. We currently have very little experience of GW2's end game. All we've really experienced so far are some dynamic events and leveling from 1-25 or so (how many people have passed lvl 15, really?) and some PvP. A huge part of the MMOs, the end game PvE, is still unknown.
If we look at WoW, why the hell would anyone put themselves through weeks and weeks of leveling and killing 10 boars and collecting 20 flowers? Solely for the end-game raids and gear, of course! If it wasn't for that, we'd be making the same complaints about WoW - it's boring and repetitive as hell, we had even less of an impact on the environment than we seem to have in GW2, etc etc.
Give GW2 a chance, wait to see what it's like after release before calling it a huge disappointment. Just food for thought.
GW2 (and GW in general) is a PvP focused game. They want GW2 to be a pvp esport and most of their engine and game design is based around PvP. We all got to test the PvP to it's fullest (more or less) so I don't think your analogy is quite right. If people are rating the game off their pve experience lv1-6 they are fools and their opinions don't hold any water. Some of us have intricately tested the PvP system and left uninspired.
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On July 24 2012 03:02 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 01:33 Firebolt145 wrote:
I'm wondering if we should do a bit of comparison to WoW here. We currently have very little experience of GW2's end game. All we've really experienced so far are some dynamic events and leveling from 1-25 or so (how many people have passed lvl 15, really?) and some PvP. A huge part of the MMOs, the end game PvE, is still unknown.
If we look at WoW, why the hell would anyone put themselves through weeks and weeks of leveling and killing 10 boars and collecting 20 flowers? Solely for the end-game raids and gear, of course! If it wasn't for that, we'd be making the same complaints about WoW - it's boring and repetitive as hell, we had even less of an impact on the environment than we seem to have in GW2, etc etc.
Give GW2 a chance, wait to see what it's like after release before calling it a huge disappointment. Just food for thought. GW2 (and GW in general) is a PvP focused game. They want GW2 to be a pvp esport and most of their engine and game design is based around PvP. We all got to test the PvP to it's fullest (more or less) so I don't think your analogy is quite right. If people are rating the game off their pve experience lv1-6 they are fools and their opinions don't hold any water. Some of us have intricately tested the PvP system and left uninspired.
Yeah but it is the engine and game design that are the important aspects to judge if the game has potential or not. I think both are well done and gives the game a lot of potential. The current state of balance isn't indicative of much of how the game eventually will be down the line once the game stablizes some time after release. A lot will depend on the support ANet provides post release.
As for it being an esport I highly doubt it will ever really get much headway on that front. MMO's IMO are just not very conducive to a good esport game. Due to technical issues (e.g. number of players involved, lag, not as understandable or pleasing for viewers, etc.) skill caps and/or watchability for MMOs will always be lower than games from other genres.
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Honestly, if it succeeds as spectator esport relies heavily on which kind of spectator client they cook up for it. I'm sure there's a way to make it appealing enough to audience. WoW didn't even try.
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On July 24 2012 03:42 daemir wrote:
Honestly, if it succeeds as spectator esport relies heavily on which kind of spectator client they cook up for it. I'm sure there's a way to make it appealing enough to audience. WoW didn't even try.
I agree with this entirely. The objective-based PvP is a good match structure to have for spectators because it provides clear points of interest and an easy way to see who's winning or losing at any point in time, but to go one step further and make it interesting, the client needs to help out. Even something as simple as providing hotkeys to allow spectators to quickly and easily swap between viewing different objectives and players can go a long way toward improving the spectator experience. Combine that with an announcer that points out when different objectives are contested and it becomes much, much easier to sort through all the action for the important stuff.
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I think most people don't realize levels 1-20 are essentially tutorials, mobs change dramatically above level 20 and become coordinated and organized and actually smart, events get more dynamic and hard and everything becomes a lot more interesting PvE wise.
I agree with this entirely. The objective-based PvP is a good match structure to have for spectators because it provides clear points of interest and an easy way to see who's winning or losing at any point in time, but to go one step further and make it interesting, the client needs to help out. Even something as simple as providing hotkeys to allow spectators to quickly and easily swap between viewing different objectives and players can go a long way toward improving the spectator experience. Combine that with an announcer that points out when different objectives are contested and it becomes much, much easier to sort through all the action for the important stuff.
It's pretty simple, a dota esque minimap with a top down dota style view would be best. Third person gives a lot of info but to be honest you don't see near enough and if you try and move to each person it becomes to hectic.
Dota style top down with a large map wide minimap, and another small third person view opposite the minimap with both teams party frames in the top left/right would be awesome.
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On July 24 2012 04:44 Esoterikk wrote:
I think most people don't realize levels 1-20 are essentially tutorials, mobs change dramatically above level 20 and become coordinated and organized and actually smart, events get more dynamic and hard and everything becomes a lot more interesting PvE wise.
Not to mention the story for each of the races in their early zones is meant to lay the foundation for each race and develop their individual characters. At the level 20 cutoff for the human personal story (which I'm assuming was still in place for this BWE), we've only just covered the two plot-centric choices made at character selection. The true defense of Tyria against the elder dragons hasn't even really begun at that point in your character's story. Couple that with the improved combat AI and increased event difficulty that was mentioned above, and there's plenty to look forward to.
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On July 24 2012 04:44 Esoterikk wrote:I think most people don't realize levels 1-20 are essentially tutorials, mobs change dramatically above level 20 and become coordinated and organized and actually smart, events get more dynamic and hard and everything becomes a lot more interesting PvE wise. Show nested quote +I agree with this entirely. The objective-based PvP is a good match structure to have for spectators because it provides clear points of interest and an easy way to see who's winning or losing at any point in time, but to go one step further and make it interesting, the client needs to help out. Even something as simple as providing hotkeys to allow spectators to quickly and easily swap between viewing different objectives and players can go a long way toward improving the spectator experience. Combine that with an announcer that points out when different objectives are contested and it becomes much, much easier to sort through all the action for the important stuff. It's pretty simple, a dota esque minimap with a top down dota style view would be best. Third person gives a lot of info but to be honest you don't see near enough and if you try and move to each person it becomes to hectic. Dota style top down with a large map wide minimap, and another small third person view opposite the minimap with both teams party frames in the top left/right would be awesome.
I think most people arent realizing that from level 20-80 you are essentially going to be using the same skill bar order because there are only so many type of weapons you can use.
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On July 24 2012 09:30 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 04:44 Esoterikk wrote:I think most people don't realize levels 1-20 are essentially tutorials, mobs change dramatically above level 20 and become coordinated and organized and actually smart, events get more dynamic and hard and everything becomes a lot more interesting PvE wise. I agree with this entirely. The objective-based PvP is a good match structure to have for spectators because it provides clear points of interest and an easy way to see who's winning or losing at any point in time, but to go one step further and make it interesting, the client needs to help out. Even something as simple as providing hotkeys to allow spectators to quickly and easily swap between viewing different objectives and players can go a long way toward improving the spectator experience. Combine that with an announcer that points out when different objectives are contested and it becomes much, much easier to sort through all the action for the important stuff. It's pretty simple, a dota esque minimap with a top down dota style view would be best. Third person gives a lot of info but to be honest you don't see near enough and if you try and move to each person it becomes to hectic. Dota style top down with a large map wide minimap, and another small third person view opposite the minimap with both teams party frames in the top left/right would be awesome. I think most people arent realizing that from level 20-80 you are essentially going to be using the same skill bar order because there are only so many type of weapons you can use.
It makes it easier to balance skills for competitive pvp and also makes it extremely easy to add content for future patches. Also, most professions have around 10 different weapon sets and you can have different pairs of those weapon sets. Plus you choose 5 skills on your taskbar, traits, runes...
How many viable builds are there usually in the MMOs that most people play? I have trouble believing the skill bar customization in GW2 is any weaker than that.
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On July 24 2012 09:30 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 04:44 Esoterikk wrote:I think most people don't realize levels 1-20 are essentially tutorials, mobs change dramatically above level 20 and become coordinated and organized and actually smart, events get more dynamic and hard and everything becomes a lot more interesting PvE wise. I agree with this entirely. The objective-based PvP is a good match structure to have for spectators because it provides clear points of interest and an easy way to see who's winning or losing at any point in time, but to go one step further and make it interesting, the client needs to help out. Even something as simple as providing hotkeys to allow spectators to quickly and easily swap between viewing different objectives and players can go a long way toward improving the spectator experience. Combine that with an announcer that points out when different objectives are contested and it becomes much, much easier to sort through all the action for the important stuff. It's pretty simple, a dota esque minimap with a top down dota style view would be best. Third person gives a lot of info but to be honest you don't see near enough and if you try and move to each person it becomes to hectic. Dota style top down with a large map wide minimap, and another small third person view opposite the minimap with both teams party frames in the top left/right would be awesome. I think most people arent realizing that from level 20-80 you are essentially going to be using the same skill bar order because there are only so many type of weapons you can use.
That's a main issue a lot of my friends have. Dynamic leveling aside... when you've unlocked all your regular abilities by level 5-10 on most classes... that's a little dull. I mean of course there are traits and additional things you unlock... but essentially your ability 1-5 (your main moves) are going to get stale... fast. I personally like it, it makes it more e-sporty and balances the pvp better but I hear there gripe. Sure in just about every MMO for a certain spec you're 5 moves dont change. But I prefer unlocking some moves as I go...
I was so gungho on this game... but maybe mmo's arent for me anymore. I really can't see myself getting to level 80 let alone anything meaningful after that.
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On July 24 2012 01:15 Juissi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 22:29 -UMADIMSTYLIN- wrote:I went ahead and got a refund for the game, it has nothing to do with the game (maybe it does?) I just got super bored after 2-3 hours of playing. Like others have said I'm just MMOed out it seems  , good luck to everyone sticking with it! Yeah same happened to me with this game. All the events started to feel super boring after 2 hours of playing.
How high of a level did you get to before getting bored? From what I've heard, the game gets a lot more challenging and interesting after level 20 as mobs get stronger and dynamic events become more commonplace in the higher-level zones. There is a Reddit post that gives a nice summary of why you should stick it out after level 20.
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I actually started seeing more dynamic events start to occur around levels 12-15. One in specific where I was just completing a heart or w/e its called then one even occured where there was a horde of enemies(husks i think they were called) then after about 8 or so other people banded together to kill them(took about 5minutes or so) a huge boss appeared(some worm) and shit turned crazy, it was slightly challenging just because of the area I was in had some plants shooting off bombs so ask the battle progressed, 3-4 minutes into it the husks start to reappear and head toward the boss to attack him but to only discover that the boss worm is feeding and healing off the husks, and meanwhile the worm is spreading aoe poison, doing sweaping attacks knocking people down, the plants are shooting off bombs near the edges so space is somewhat limited all while trying to kill husks so it can stop healing and kill the worm itself. Now mind you this may sound like a lot but after what a seemed a few deaths across the area we eventually got him down without too much trouble and he dropped some lewts.
This event just left an awesome feeling of accomplishment and togetherness with the other players( a few of us stuck together and even traveld completing hearts afterwards ). What was really cool about the whole thing of how random of a boss fight this was. One moment I seem alone maybe with one or two other players near me and then a couple minutes later 10 people show up and we're fighting a gigantic worm. It was just a taste of how a dynamic an event can get. It left me feeling good about the current PVE situation as many of us thought it was going to be a boring grind.
I will most likely have to pick up this game just because of the pontential it has. If arenanet support this game well and keep things interesting it will definitely be a long term game for me.
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On July 24 2012 09:45 Pufftrees wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 09:30 phodacbiet wrote:On July 24 2012 04:44 Esoterikk wrote:I think most people don't realize levels 1-20 are essentially tutorials, mobs change dramatically above level 20 and become coordinated and organized and actually smart, events get more dynamic and hard and everything becomes a lot more interesting PvE wise. I agree with this entirely. The objective-based PvP is a good match structure to have for spectators because it provides clear points of interest and an easy way to see who's winning or losing at any point in time, but to go one step further and make it interesting, the client needs to help out. Even something as simple as providing hotkeys to allow spectators to quickly and easily swap between viewing different objectives and players can go a long way toward improving the spectator experience. Combine that with an announcer that points out when different objectives are contested and it becomes much, much easier to sort through all the action for the important stuff. It's pretty simple, a dota esque minimap with a top down dota style view would be best. Third person gives a lot of info but to be honest you don't see near enough and if you try and move to each person it becomes to hectic. Dota style top down with a large map wide minimap, and another small third person view opposite the minimap with both teams party frames in the top left/right would be awesome. I think most people arent realizing that from level 20-80 you are essentially going to be using the same skill bar order because there are only so many type of weapons you can use. That's a main issue a lot of my friends have. Dynamic leveling aside... when you've unlocked all your regular abilities by level 5-10 on most classes... that's a little dull. I mean of course there are traits and additional things you unlock... but essentially your ability 1-5 (your main moves) are going to get stale... fast. I personally like it, it makes it more e-sporty and balances the pvp better but I hear there gripe. Sure in just about every MMO for a certain spec you're 5 moves dont change. But I prefer unlocking some moves as I go... I was so gungho on this game... but maybe mmo's arent for me anymore. I really can't see myself getting to level 80 let alone anything meaningful after that.
I remember leveling in WoW using sinister strike and eviscerate the entire time. This game has far more ability usage leveling than most other MMO's do, not sure what people are expecting.
I think some people are just jaded by MMO's. Anyway if you are bored of leveling you should have tried out WvW, you can level there and it doesn't feel like work. I joined on the last day and gained 10 levels without even realizing I had done it. However, anyone saying this game has less skills to use than a traditional MMO is plain wrong, having played most MMO's that came out over the past 8 years there was more throughput in this game than any other I have experienced except maybe Age of Conan.
Traits(essentially your talents) also make a pretty big difference in gameplay and those aren't unlocked early at all
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does anyone knows an update calculator ? bw3 calculator want to see the changes in everything. pls
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Complaining about lack of abilities to use is somewhat silly if you mention games like WoW in the same breath. Really. I had nearly every class in that game and I raided high end in every role on 4 or 5 different classes. You used 3-5 main abilities (oh hi main action bar) and a few longer cooldowns (utility bar!) and aim was always, always to move as little as possible, because that would maximise dps and hps.
And you are kidding yourself if you're saying leveling in WoW didn't revolve around few main abilities to grind down mobs. What did a frost mage do while leveling? Frostbolt and Ice Lance if you procced a freeze, most of the time mobs didn't get even close. What did a warrior do? Charge, MS/BT, execute. Rogue? CS SS SS evis. Or maybe CS muti evi. Real compelling gameplay.
I'm starting to agree that people are just getting over MMOs. I'm the same a bit myself, but I'm in GW2 for the pvp which so far has been okay for me. I hated arena in WoW because to me it seemed pointless. I'm objective driven in my pvp. That's why I preferred to play W:ET instead of CS I guess.
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On July 24 2012 09:30 phodacbiet wrote:
I think most people arent realizing that from level 20-80 you are essentially going to be using the same skill bar order because there are only so many type of weapons you can use.
How much did you solo PvE rotation really evolve in WoW, Rift, Tera, or basically any other MMO? Yeah.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
People love the illusion of choice.
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There are so many ways to level up in this game that if PvE is going to get boring, you can take a break and do something else and still advance. Maxing all of the crafting disciplines will put you at level 80. Playing WvW can get you levels pretty quickly if you're a part of a big defense (Arrow cart operators defending Stonemist keep lord end up getting quite a lot of XP and loot lol) or just running around protecting Dolyaks and taking towers/camps. I've found that I had to do very little grinding when I was trying to level up. Once you get into an area, do all the Hearts, keep up with your personal story and keep up, and make sure that you do each dynamic event thing in an area at least once, and you should be on track for the most part. Once you get to level 30, you can also get to raiding dungeons and whatnot.
I don't really see why people are so pressed to level to 80 as fast as they can. You can PvP just fine from level 1 and WvW is also pretty doable once you have the weapon skills unlocked. Of course, you get the better gear and have a lot more traits, but I've been on the lower end of levels in several of the beta weekends and my experience in WvW and PvP didn't really diminish at all from not having an elite or more traits. Just enjoy the game and be fine with not being the first level 80 on the server.
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On July 24 2012 22:53 Mannerheim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 09:30 phodacbiet wrote:
I think most people arent realizing that from level 20-80 you are essentially going to be using the same skill bar order because there are only so many type of weapons you can use.
How much did you solo PvE rotation really evolve in WoW, Rift, Tera, or basically any other MMO? Yeah.
At least in WoW, most of the key skills are unlocked later in the game, either by talents or level. Look at pretty much any class and their end-game rotations and you'll see that many of those key skills aren't obtained until lvl 60+. While the basic rotations are similar, you make changes at several points while leveling up, the same concept is not in GW2. Not saying everyone has to prefer the WoW way, just saying that there's definitely differences there.
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EPT
