On July 23 2012 12:48 Ryuu314 wrote: I really don't understand why people are complaining about 'zergfests" and "no skill" in this game right now. The vast majority of people have played this game for 6 days tops. You're not going to get super high skill, crazy mechanics, revolutionary strategies when people have only played for 6 days.
That's like people saying SC2 was a horrible no skill game during the first week of beta 'cause everyone and their mother was only 4gating or 6pooling.
This. People are expecting top-notch end game skill cap strategies and mechanics during a BETA of a game that isn't released for months.
Like what?
Protip: It's released in approximately one month.
On to something else: Now that I've tried another class for a bit (Elementalist), I would like people who have played more than me and love the game to explain how the game is not a buttonmasher. I'm so disappointed right now and I'm hoping that people who have had the time to play a lot more during the betas can make me feel better about the game. For both my Guardian (which I got to pretty high level) and my Elementalist, I feel like fights are basically "Walk up to enemy, use all your skills. As soon as cooldown for any skill is up, use it immediately". There's no room for skill or improvement. Obviously as a ranged class, you can kite and dodge projectiles for a bit, but it's generally not worth the effort. The game just feels so basic.
For example as an air elementalist with a scepter, why wouldn't you always use your normal attack and spam the bolt and blind? Blind lasts for 6 seconds, so it's not like you will be able to kite it for so long that it won't be used up, and the faster you use it, the more hits you will block with it.
You can play it like that, if you are happy with being one of the general mmo playing public and you will still do ok. Mainly because most other people will be doing the same.
However there is a lot of skill involved (if you care to manage it). Weapon swapping, dodging, kiting, landing non auto aim abilities, knowing when to activate any special class abilities, watching your stats, knowing when / how to disengage and positioning on the terrain, all need to be managed. I will break each one down into what i mean.
Weapon swapping is quite huge for some classes, for example on my necro i could pull a bit of range swap to my aoe weapon and land all my aoes and be back to my close ranged weapon before my opponent could close if i did it right.
Dodging you have to be specifically watching their animation to pull off correctly, ideally you dont just want to use it to keep range you want to also force an ability of theirs to go on cooldown as well. Which when you have so many other things to keep track of can be quite tricky.
Kiting is pretty self explainatory, you want to be the one to dictate the range of the fight which can be done in a number of ways. Watch where they are going and react quickly, if you see them trying to cut you off change your line etc.
Landing non auto aim abilities (primarily aoes) is very important, you want to be using as many skills as possible that give you a damage edge which can include these abilities. It involves simple aiming and predicting where they are going to be, timing can be important (such as landing it as they come out of a roll to prevent them escaping it).
Special class abilities can include, when to activate your shroud as a necro, when to detonate turrets as an engineer, basically any of the f1-fx abilites. These can completely change the tide of a battle.
Watching your stats can also include watching his, you always want to know exactly how much health you have and what debuffs / buffs you have on you. This allows you to decide if you want to put on pressure, prepare to disengage or can simply give you an idea of how you are doing compared to your opponents. You want to be looking at this every few seconds.
Knowing when to disengage is important, if you are losing don't stay and die unless you know you can't escape. Actually disengaging can be a bit harder though. You want to start saving cooldowns for abilities that can help you do this, you want to gain as much range as you can / start moving to fight to position you in a way that you have a direct line towards escape or help.
Positioning is super important, you can use objects such as trees or rocks or posts or w/e to block los abilities from your opponent. The ideal time to do that is when you can still hit, ie with aoes or pets / turrets or anything else. You want to be looking around as well, to see if anyone / anything new will be joining the fight. I try to set myself up so i can move in one constant direction for a few seconds every so often in the fight, this allows me to rotate the camera and completely check my surroundings. (key word try, as i am still chobo)
If you think you do all of these things perfectly, then you are a far better man than i. I have mastered none of them, yet just being aware of them can help. I consider my success in pvp so far to be above average, and hopefully you can to now .
If anyone has any suggestions to things i have missed or counter points please reply, i am always looking to improve my game.
On July 23 2012 12:48 Ryuu314 wrote: I really don't understand why people are complaining about 'zergfests" and "no skill" in this game right now. The vast majority of people have played this game for 6 days tops. You're not going to get super high skill, crazy mechanics, revolutionary strategies when people have only played for 6 days.
That's like people saying SC2 was a horrible no skill game during the first week of beta 'cause everyone and their mother was only 4gating or 6pooling.
This. People are expecting top-notch end game skill cap strategies and mechanics during a BETA of a game that isn't released for months.
Like what?
Protip: It's released in approximately one month.
On to something else: Now that I've tried another class for a bit (Elementalist), I would like people who have played more than me and love the game to explain how the game is not a buttonmasher. I'm so disappointed right now and I'm hoping that people who have had the time to play a lot more during the betas can make me feel better about the game. For both my Guardian (which I got to pretty high level) and my Elementalist, I feel like fights are basically "Walk up to enemy, use all your skills. As soon as cooldown for any skill is up, use it immediately". There's no room for skill or improvement. Obviously as a ranged class, you can kite and dodge projectiles for a bit, but it's generally not worth the effort. The game just feels so basic.
For example as an air elementalist with a scepter, why wouldn't you always use your normal attack and spam the bolt and blind? Blind lasts for 6 seconds, so it's not like you will be able to kite it for so long that it won't be used up, and the faster you use it, the more hits you will block with it.
First of, what he mean "during a BETA of a game that isn't released for months" is that the game is not even released yet but people already expect the game play to be high level already.
If you play against higher level player/monster, you need to time the spell to match with your target next move. For example, against a warrior you would want to use the blind skill when he's going to use the burst skill instead of the auto attack. Or when the boss is going to use a strong attack and you ran out of dodge. Another example is predicting when the target is going to heal and apply poison so he could not heal efficiently.
The game is basic but that does not mean it has a low skill cap. There's a lot of things that people still don't know about the game yet so it's difficult to judge.
A cool elementalist skill chain that I figured out myself is to use the frozen ground to slow your enemy, then use the arcane power (makes your next five attacks critical), then drop the ice spike on your head for a massive damage spike. the wont be able to escape it easily because of the frozen ground. There's a bunch of little skill chains you can come up with like that. It's not just button mashing. It's not overly complicated either, though.
On July 23 2012 12:48 Ryuu314 wrote: I really don't understand why people are complaining about 'zergfests" and "no skill" in this game right now. The vast majority of people have played this game for 6 days tops. You're not going to get super high skill, crazy mechanics, revolutionary strategies when people have only played for 6 days.
That's like people saying SC2 was a horrible no skill game during the first week of beta 'cause everyone and their mother was only 4gating or 6pooling.
This. People are expecting top-notch end game skill cap strategies and mechanics during a BETA of a game that isn't released for months.
Like what?
Protip: It's released in approximately one month.
On to something else: Now that I've tried another class for a bit (Elementalist), I would like people who have played more than me and love the game to explain how the game is not a buttonmasher. I'm so disappointed right now and I'm hoping that people who have had the time to play a lot more during the betas can make me feel better about the game. For both my Guardian (which I got to pretty high level) and my Elementalist, I feel like fights are basically "Walk up to enemy, use all your skills. As soon as cooldown for any skill is up, use it immediately". There's no room for skill or improvement. Obviously as a ranged class, you can kite and dodge projectiles for a bit, but it's generally not worth the effort. The game just feels so basic.
For example as an air elementalist with a scepter, why wouldn't you always use your normal attack and spam the bolt and blind? Blind lasts for 6 seconds, so it's not like you will be able to kite it for so long that it won't be used up, and the faster you use it, the more hits you will block with it.
I only dabbled in the beta a little bit yesterday since I wasn't home all weekend, but I really have to disagree. Sure later on you'll probably focus heavier on one skillset but especially the elementalist didn't feel liek a buttonmasher at all. Yeah you'll autocast your "main" spell of each Alignment but at level 6 I was already stancing like a hero. Basically bursting out my air talents when up, switching to water to heal myself, get the additional regeneration and cripple the opponent again, afterwards going to fire if there's multiple enemies to AOE the shit out of them aaaand back to air when the cooldown is up just to go to water when I need healing / to fire for additional AOE.
Until yesterday I was sure I'd play a Necromancer but Elementalist just feels really really nice already. I can't imagine what a good player can do with a higher Level Elementalist in his Hands.
On July 23 2012 12:48 Ryuu314 wrote: I really don't understand why people are complaining about 'zergfests" and "no skill" in this game right now. The vast majority of people have played this game for 6 days tops. You're not going to get super high skill, crazy mechanics, revolutionary strategies when people have only played for 6 days.
That's like people saying SC2 was a horrible no skill game during the first week of beta 'cause everyone and their mother was only 4gating or 6pooling.
This. People are expecting top-notch end game skill cap strategies and mechanics during a BETA of a game that isn't released for months.
Like what?
Protip: It's released in approximately one month.
On to something else: Now that I've tried another class for a bit (Elementalist), I would like people who have played more than me and love the game to explain how the game is not a buttonmasher. I'm so disappointed right now and I'm hoping that people who have had the time to play a lot more during the betas can make me feel better about the game. For both my Guardian (which I got to pretty high level) and my Elementalist, I feel like fights are basically "Walk up to enemy, use all your skills. As soon as cooldown for any skill is up, use it immediately". There's no room for skill or improvement. Obviously as a ranged class, you can kite and dodge projectiles for a bit, but it's generally not worth the effort. The game just feels so basic.
For example as an air elementalist with a scepter, why wouldn't you always use your normal attack and spam the bolt and blind? Blind lasts for 6 seconds, so it's not like you will be able to kite it for so long that it won't be used up, and the faster you use it, the more hits you will block with it.
In a big pub fight it's not as bad to just use as many skills as possible, but in coordinated fights (pretty much anything from 1v1 to 5v5) the timings are important a lot like they are in WoW arena, except there's better counters and more variables from skill.
Thinking about a good way to explain it, but you really just have to learn the other classes' skills to see why you shouldn't button mash.
On July 21 2012 11:49 dragonblade369 wrote: Damn I'm sad about mesmers.. BW1 they were awesome. A lot of playstyle and super fun. BW2 they did some (bad) changed, I didn't play. Now, coming to this BW3, it's even worst. I'm so sad
On July 23 2012 12:48 Ryuu314 wrote: I really don't understand why people are complaining about 'zergfests" and "no skill" in this game right now. The vast majority of people have played this game for 6 days tops. You're not going to get super high skill, crazy mechanics, revolutionary strategies when people have only played for 6 days.
That's like people saying SC2 was a horrible no skill game during the first week of beta 'cause everyone and their mother was only 4gating or 6pooling.
This. People are expecting top-notch end game skill cap strategies and mechanics during a BETA of a game that isn't released for months.
Like what?
Protip: It's released in approximately one month.
On to something else: Now that I've tried another class for a bit (Elementalist), I would like people who have played more than me and love the game to explain how the game is not a buttonmasher. . There's no room for skill or improvement. Obviously as a ranged class, you can kite and dodge projectiles for a bit, but it's generally not worth the effort. The game just feels so basic.
For example as an air elementalist with a scepter, why wouldn't you always use your normal attack and spam the bolt and blind? Blind lasts for 6 seconds, so it's not like you will be able to kite it for so long that it won't be used up, and the faster you use it, the more hits you will block with it.
You're playing elementalist entirely wrong then. Elementalist should be switching affinities (Fire/Earth/Air/Water) nearly every few seconds, and the switches are dictated by the situation/position you're in. Elementalist have probably one of the highest skill caps of any classes in GW2. Although Fire and Air probably need to be nerfed a bit.
For all three BWE's I've primarily been trying the necromancer and the mesmer, though admittedly never dedicated too much time to the game. These two classes aren't exactly the most 'obvious' of classes - there isn't really much of 'press this button to do damage', it's a little more subtle with the condition management etc, not to mention the life source/clone management. On the other hand I spent maybe an hour playing a thief and an elementalist last night and they were much easier to get the hang of. Just an interesting dynamic.
Didn't get to play too much what with trying to keep up with MLG and having to do some work, but what I did play was very enjoyable. Given there's no sub fee I think I'll pre-order as soon as my next invoice comes in =)
tbh I think I'd buy it just to explore hah, the world is so nice and you can just immerse yourself and run around seeing what yuo stumble onto.
Still, I have no idea what race/class combo I want to roll!
On July 23 2012 20:42 Huragius wrote: So, after reading this thread quite a bit I'm interested in participating in GW2 BETA. But from few sites and forums I read that invites are already over, is there any way to get into GW2 BETA for me at the moment ?
The final beta weekend literally ended about 5 hours ago TT
On July 23 2012 12:48 Ryuu314 wrote: I really don't understand why people are complaining about 'zergfests" and "no skill" in this game right now. The vast majority of people have played this game for 6 days tops. You're not going to get super high skill, crazy mechanics, revolutionary strategies when people have only played for 6 days.
That's like people saying SC2 was a horrible no skill game during the first week of beta 'cause everyone and their mother was only 4gating or 6pooling.
This. People are expecting top-notch end game skill cap strategies and mechanics during a BETA of a game that isn't released for months.
Like what?
Protip: It's released in approximately one month.
On to something else: Now that I've tried another class for a bit (Elementalist), I would like people who have played more than me and love the game to explain how the game is not a buttonmasher. I'm so disappointed right now and I'm hoping that people who have had the time to play a lot more during the betas can make me feel better about the game. For both my Guardian (which I got to pretty high level) and my Elementalist, I feel like fights are basically "Walk up to enemy, use all your skills. As soon as cooldown for any skill is up, use it immediately". There's no room for skill or improvement. Obviously as a ranged class, you can kite and dodge projectiles for a bit, but it's generally not worth the effort. The game just feels so basic.
For example as an air elementalist with a scepter, why wouldn't you always use your normal attack and spam the bolt and blind? Blind lasts for 6 seconds, so it's not like you will be able to kite it for so long that it won't be used up, and the faster you use it, the more hits you will block with it.
If you find yourself playing "air elementalist" or you wanna go healer "water elementalist" then you simply play elementalist wrong. You aren't set in stone for one element, you shift through them all constantly no matter what you traited into, to get all the benefits and create combos. That's pretty much what 89.5738% of those who played elementalist during these betas got wrong. Stop trying to be "fire mage", you are an elementalist, go into earth, drop a combo field, then go fire and detonate it for combo effect.
The button mashing part on elementalist being true there is that once you go to an attunement, you generally want to put everything inside it on cooldown if it's not long (>25s) cd that you know you might need soon again.
Like in your example, with a scepter, you'll go into air for your offhand abilities most likely and while you do that you fire off the mainhand (scepter) stuff. For focus there's a very handy knockdown that you can follow with fire->dragon's tooth, phoenix for nearly guaranteed hit on both of them. Or you might want to use the projectile shield if you are fighting a spellcaster or ranged. While doing that you'll fire off the lightning bolt and blind. Or for dagger you'll likely want to use Ride the Lightning to either close in on someone, then use updraft to knock them down, followed by fire attunement and unleashing your damage combo from there. Then you swap to another element. And you'll be able to kite forever with an elementalist once you start rotating your attunements correctly.
I went ahead and got a refund for the game, it has nothing to do with the game (maybe it does?) I just got super bored after 2-3 hours of playing. Like others have said I'm just MMOed out it seems , good luck to everyone sticking with it!
On July 23 2012 22:29 -UMADIMSTYLIN- wrote: I went ahead and got a refund for the game, it has nothing to do with the game (maybe it does?) I just got super bored after 2-3 hours of playing. Like others have said I'm just MMOed out it seems , good luck to everyone sticking with it!
Oh man you can do that? lol I'm in the same boat, it's simply just boring :\
On July 23 2012 22:29 -UMADIMSTYLIN- wrote: I went ahead and got a refund for the game, it has nothing to do with the game (maybe it does?) I just got super bored after 2-3 hours of playing. Like others have said I'm just MMOed out it seems , good luck to everyone sticking with it!
Oh man you can do that? lol I'm in the same boat, it's simply just boring :\
Yeah e-mail support and they will ask for information and process a refund, they were really nice about it. good luck
I was lucky enough to play in the first closed beta many months ago but was still on the fence. After playing this last beta weekend and not seeing any improvement from the first beta to the last, I think I'm going to pass. There is some skill to the game but I think people are overhyping how masterful the PvP really is. It's also pretty imbalanced right now, I started this most recent beta as an elementalist and it was nice and fun to have 4 schools to combo certain spells but overall I felt pretty lackluster rather meh. I rerolled a warrior and went 15-0, 18-0 in the first two games I'd ever played the class. Was pretty faceroll easy for anyone with mmo pvp experience.
Overall I think it's probably a decent game but it's not good enough to get me back into MMO genre.
On July 23 2012 22:29 -UMADIMSTYLIN- wrote: I went ahead and got a refund for the game, it has nothing to do with the game (maybe it does?) I just got super bored after 2-3 hours of playing. Like others have said I'm just MMOed out it seems , good luck to everyone sticking with it!
Yeah same happened to me with this game. All the events started to feel super boring after 2 hours of playing.
I'm wondering if we should do a bit of comparison to WoW here. We currently have very little experience of GW2's end game. All we've really experienced so far are some dynamic events and leveling from 1-25 or so (how many people have passed lvl 15, really?) and some PvP. A huge part of the MMOs, the end game PvE, is still unknown.
If we look at WoW, why the hell would anyone put themselves through weeks and weeks of leveling and killing 10 boars and collecting 20 flowers? Solely for the end-game raids and gear, of course! If it wasn't for that, we'd be making the same complaints about WoW - it's boring and repetitive as hell, we had even less of an impact on the environment than we seem to have in GW2, etc etc.
Give GW2 a chance, wait to see what it's like after release before calling it a huge disappointment. Just food for thought.
EPT
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