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DA:O was a decent attempt at recapturing the glory days that were PS:T and BG2: SoA, although it wasn't half as good as them. The main problem I see with Bioware's storytelling in both DA and ME series is essentially that they've created a model which they now don't dare break, and it's getting so incredibly old, it's prime being KOTOR (best game to ever use the whole gather party members thing).
The other incredibly weak aspect of Bioware's RPGs in both DA and ME is main antagonists. They absolutely suck and have no real personality. The faceless reapers and the archdemon do no justice to the likes of Jon Irenicus, now THAT was a solid nemesis, I actually hated the guy and got really excited when I finally finished the game, that was such a great storyline.
Also, a third weak point of Bioware's modern RPGs is difficulty. Anyone who says DA is hard must be blind and one-handed, even on nightmare difficulty the main characters are so overpowered in mid-game it becomes impossible to die, in my second playthrough I played a rogue and basically massacred any opponent in any amount (Morrigan casts cone of cold ---> whirlwind ---> 6+ opponents shattered), in the first one I was a total noob and played a mage and even while playing like crap I was able to crush anything that came in front of me, don't even talk about awakening, character skills are grossly overpowered. Again, BG2 was so much harder, it was actually a challenge.
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On February 15 2011 06:14 mordk wrote:
The other incredibly weak aspect of Bioware's RPGs in both DA and ME is main antagonists. They absolutely suck and have no real personality. The faceless reapers and the archdemon do no justice to the likes of Jon Irenicus, now THAT was a solid nemesis, I actually hated the guy and got really excited when I finally finished the game, that was such a great storyline.
That's a really good point I've never thought about. Irenicus, Sarevok and Melissan were all very hateable and victory felt very satisfactory. DA:O had characters like Loghain and Vaughn (if you were a human noble) who paled by comparison and weren't even the ultimate bad guy who were just some faceless horde of creatures.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On February 15 2011 06:30 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2011 06:14 mordk wrote:
The other incredibly weak aspect of Bioware's RPGs in both DA and ME is main antagonists. They absolutely suck and have no real personality. The faceless reapers and the archdemon do no justice to the likes of Jon Irenicus, now THAT was a solid nemesis, I actually hated the guy and got really excited when I finally finished the game, that was such a great storyline.
That's a really good point I've never thought about. Irenicus, Sarevok and Melissan were all very hateable and victory felt very satisfactory. DA:O had characters like Loghain and Vaughn (if you were a human noble) who paled by comparison and weren't even the ultimate bad guy who were just some faceless horde of creatures.
I thought Bioware did a good job with ME 1&2's villains. Sure Saren and the Harbinger + Show Spoiler +(who technically is a reaper)
Same kind of goes to DA:O. Sure, they're not the most in-your-face evil villains but Loghain and the Archdemon do what they're there for and serve the overall story.
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On February 15 2011 06:14 mordk wrote:
DA:O was a decent attempt at recapturing the glory days that were PS:T and BG2: SoA, although it wasn't half as good as them. The main problem I see with Bioware's storytelling in both DA and ME series is essentially that they've created a model which they now don't dare break, and it's getting so incredibly old, it's prime being KOTOR (best game to ever use the whole gather party members thing).
The other incredibly weak aspect of Bioware's RPGs in both DA and ME is main antagonists. They absolutely suck and have no real personality. The faceless reapers and the archdemon do no justice to the likes of Jon Irenicus, now THAT was a solid nemesis, I actually hated the guy and got really excited when I finally finished the game, that was such a great storyline.
Also, a third weak point of Bioware's modern RPGs is difficulty. Anyone who says DA is hard must be blind and one-handed, even on nightmare difficulty the main characters are so overpowered in mid-game it becomes impossible to die, in my second playthrough I played a rogue and basically massacred any opponent in any amount (Morrigan casts cone of cold ---> whirlwind ---> 6+ opponents shattered), in the first one I was a total noob and played a mage and even while playing like crap I was able to crush anything that came in front of me, don't even talk about awakening, character skills are grossly overpowered. Again, BG2 was so much harder, it was actually a challenge.
Ahhhh so true...I agree with this post wholeheartedly. I've played every bioware game and KOTOR is still the best game that follows their formula. I don't know if they've been trying to top it ever since then or what but its time for something new. They still put out better games than basically anyone else in the industry but I wish they went back to their RPG roots. ME2 was a good game but it was basically a 3rd person shooter with a good story -_-.
Also nightmare on DA was only easy because mages were so overpowered in that game. 2-3 mages in the party made any difficulty a joke but take them out of the equation and the game does actually become pretty challenging.
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I cannot wait for this game to come out. Dragon Age Origins was such a great game. I am so happy i got it on the PC because i heard it sucked on the consul due to the incapability of the consul.
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DA 7 out of 10
- No replayability (2nd playthrough felt exactly like the 1st, and after i beat the game, I had no motivation to play it again)
-Weak story (Even oblivion has better story than this and that's not saying much at all)
-Very linear / no exploration (Decisions do have impact but not impacting enough to change the outcome of the story. you can't even explore after beating the game. There is absolutely no open world like Obilivion, you're very confined. Considering most places are recycled, there are not many places to go. )
-Game is too short.
No one is interested in being a greywarden. I would rather be a child of Bhaal.
Good parts are:
Good Party member interaction
Did a decent job at giving me an RPG feel
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Dunno if I'd say DA is too short. It's pretty damn long by modern game standards, but it's overlong for what it delivers story-wise, the dungeons just drag on way too long with no variety, it's just a whole shit load of monsters in too big dungeons. Whereas BG2 was ridiculously long because it was really content and story rich.
There's a lot to criticize about DA but I can appreciate it for not being a completely generic Kotor/Mass Effect style game, unfortunately that's exactly what DA2 is going to be
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I gave DA 9/10 not sure what it is about it, but its one of the only games I made it through more then once.
Cant wait for DA2!
Next week it starts Bulletstorm -> Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II - Retribution -> Deus Ex: Human Revolution -> Dragon Age II -> Shogun 2: Total War.
Next month is going to be awesome I hope.
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On February 15 2011 09:17 antelope591 wrote:
Also nightmare on DA was only easy because mages were so overpowered in that game. 2-3 mages in the party made any difficulty a joke but take them out of the equation and the game does actually become pretty challenging.
I have to agree. And even if you find a super easy combo which makes every fight trivial (like forcefielding your S&B warrior after he got some mobs on him, CoC -> AoE shatter) - stop using it.
Or if you're able to abuse the AI and pull a couple of mobs out of bigger groups - dont do it.
Though what I've seen from DA2 I fear the worst.
"You can move your character to the side to avoid damage"... am I playing a action rpg? 
And also "You probably wont need to pause when playing casual - normal". I'll start with nightmare but still - fearing the worst
On February 15 2011 09:36 lastmotion wrote:
-Very linear / no exploration (Decisions do have impact but not impacting enough to change the outcome of the story. you can't even explore after beating the game. There is absolutely no open world like Obilivion, you're very confined. Considering most places are recycled, there are not many places to go. )
-Game is too short.
Too short? Wtf.
And I hate Oblivion "free world" styles - because the "vast" world feels just empty in those "1st person action RPGs". Or has multiple repetetive generated dungeons which are a snorefest with absolutely no story behind them.
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I completed DA:O from every origin story through the end of the game. o.O I've put some time in it. Needless to say, I'm looking forward to DA2, but have some trepidation.
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Dragon Age is yes, too linear. I hope they fix this.
No variability in gameplay and missions.
Decisions have minor consequences in the game.
Fix this, and Dragon Age is golden.
And yes, there's really no enemy in the game. Just some random archdemon that appears every once in a while, and sends his minions after me. And the graphics are quite poor.
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DA:O on nightmare was pretty fun. The only battle I couldn't beat was the arena match with the dwarves (because I wasn't a mage)...
Looking forward to DA2, the combat system looks pretty cool.
I would like a higher degree of variability in spells, weapons, etc. -- maybe not as much as Oblivion, but something along those lines...
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United States684 Posts
Not all RPG's are open world sand box type. Dragon Age is linear because thats what Bioware wanted. It's not a bad thing in my opinion. It had a very developed story, good visuals, wasn't to short or unnecessarily long and good character and NPC development. Yes I love Elder Scrolls and its open world but I don't get why people knock any game now if its not sand box style. Dragon Age was one of the best RPG's i've played if you look at the whole package. I would say my only slight issue with the game was that you couldnt custimize your character as much as I would have liked skill wise in the sense that I think all warriors will end up about the same and the same for mages and rouges. DA 2 should be great, bioware doesnt make games that are less than 8/10. I really like how they defined the main character so he will talk and seem a little more personable.
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On February 15 2011 09:50 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2011 09:36 lastmotion wrote:
-Very linear / no exploration (Decisions do have impact but not impacting enough to change the outcome of the story. you can't even explore after beating the game. There is absolutely no open world like Obilivion, you're very confined. Considering most places are recycled, there are not many places to go. )
-Game is too short.
Too short? Wtf. And I hate Oblivion "free world" styles - because the "vast" world feels just empty in those "1st person action RPGs". Or has multiple repetetive generated dungeons which are a snorefest with absolutely no story behind them.
Not if you mod Oblivion! With enough mods, you will be surprised. I have like 4 overhaul mods working on my Oblivion + a bunch of others. They essentially remade Oblivion.
The bad side is that Oblivion's engine is so trashy that it randomly crashes after heavy modding.
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@Zocat
I'm talking about DA:O, not including the awakening
After you defeat the final boss, I expected the game to continue. I at least hoped that they would let you explore and go around with your char afterwards =(
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I dont like the new DA.
Want to play something else then a human in a RPG.
Also the combat seems way crappier then the first game. Its just not my style
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On February 15 2011 06:14 mordk wrote:
Also, a third weak point of Bioware's modern RPGs is difficulty. Anyone who says DA is hard must be blind and one-handed, even on nightmare difficulty the main characters are so overpowered in mid-game it becomes impossible to die, in my second playthrough I played a rogue and basically massacred any opponent in any amount (Morrigan casts cone of cold ---> whirlwind ---> 6+ opponents shattered), in the first one I was a total noob and played a mage and even while playing like crap I was able to crush anything that came in front of me, don't even talk about awakening, character skills are grossly overpowered. Again, BG2 was so much harder, it was actually a challenge.
Ye, balance was really whack after the early game. It was actually quite challenging at nightmare untill I got 3 mages in my party plus that golem guy. After that I could beat 99% of all encounters by just chaincasting disablers/stuns (which were insanely overpowered) and tickling the enemies to death with my wands. Bosses were always just a matter of basic tank/heal/dps. Or you could just use forcefield for a free win really.
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On February 15 2011 06:54 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2011 06:30 Bibdy wrote:On February 15 2011 06:14 mordk wrote:
The other incredibly weak aspect of Bioware's RPGs in both DA and ME is main antagonists. They absolutely suck and have no real personality. The faceless reapers and the archdemon do no justice to the likes of Jon Irenicus, now THAT was a solid nemesis, I actually hated the guy and got really excited when I finally finished the game, that was such a great storyline.
That's a really good point I've never thought about. Irenicus, Sarevok and Melissan were all very hateable and victory felt very satisfactory. DA:O had characters like Loghain and Vaughn (if you were a human noble) who paled by comparison and weren't even the ultimate bad guy who were just some faceless horde of creatures. I thought Bioware did a good job with ME 1&2's villains. Sure Saren and the Harbinger + Show Spoiler +(who technically is a reaper) aren't the most devious or terrifying foes but they do their jobs. Anyways, ME3 is going to show what the reapers are really capable of and how badass they truly are (hopefully!) Same kind of goes to DA:O. Sure, they're not the most in-your-face evil villains but Loghain and the Archdemon do what they're there for and serve the overall story.
Saren was a great villain, but the Collectors over all were just a horrible enemy. And the plot twist + Show Spoiler +a human reaper (The idea of a human shaped reaper ship just sounds stupid, and why do machines need biological material?)
That and the reapers went from a terrifying and nearly unstoppable nemesis to a race that needs to attack and physically land on Earth in order to do damage, despite the fact that the only instance of a reaper being taken out was with a gargantuan mass accelerator cannon that tore a huge gash in a planet. Instead we have these neutered reapers who appear very, very beatable.
I'm noticing a very disturbing trend in RPG's these days, they're being dumbed down and packed with more action at the cost of decent writing and mechanics. The most annoying aspect was Mass Effect 2, they remove the inventory completely instead of just fixing the issues it had, and giving all weapons 'ammo'.
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On February 15 2011 11:00 dukethegold wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2011 09:50 Zocat wrote:On February 15 2011 09:36 lastmotion wrote:
-Very linear / no exploration (Decisions do have impact but not impacting enough to change the outcome of the story. you can't even explore after beating the game. There is absolutely no open world like Obilivion, you're very confined. Considering most places are recycled, there are not many places to go. )
-Game is too short.
Too short? Wtf. And I hate Oblivion "free world" styles - because the "vast" world feels just empty in those "1st person action RPGs". Or has multiple repetetive generated dungeons which are a snorefest with absolutely no story behind them. Not if you mod Oblivion! With enough mods, you will be surprised. I have like 4 overhaul mods working on my Oblivion + a bunch of others. They essentially remade Oblivion. The bad side is that Oblivion's engine is so trashy that it randomly crashes after heavy modding.
Sorry, but you can't compliment a game where it's not good unless the players themselves fix it.
My laptop could not run Oblivion a year ago so I got GOTY edition on PS3, and if was pretty meh without being able to mod anything.
It has the worst leveling system of almost any game I have ever played, it makes you not want to even level.
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Here's hoping DA2 is to DA as BG2 was to BG. BG2 = <3<3<3<3<3
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EPT
