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On March 03 2011 07:08 godemperor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2011 07:04 Ferrose wrote:On March 03 2011 07:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 03 2011 06:42 Ferrose wrote:On March 03 2011 06:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 03 2011 06:09 Ferrose wrote:On March 03 2011 06:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 03 2011 05:38 Ferrose wrote:Now I'm really not gonna buy the game. Fuck you, Bioware.  They did it with dragon age as well. Stone prisoner was available upon release, and wardens keep was either available shortly after or at same time as well wasn't it? Didn't it come free with the game though? >.> Edit: Well, I know that Stone Prisoner did at least. When is the DLC gonna be out anyway? Because if it's gonna be out at the same time as the full game, then there's no reason for it to not be in the game in the first place, IMO. Stone prisoner was free with the CLE no idea if it was for the regular. I know that this DLC is free with the dragon age 2 signature edition as well. It is not for the regular. I honestly don't see why people are mad about it. It gives players 1 free character for preordering, or you have to pay to get the person. You don't have to download it to play the game as it was intended -_- But you'd already be paying $60 for the game itself. And now they want an extra $7 on the SAME DAY? They can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Should have pre ordered the sig edition? I honestly have no idea why people are so annoyed over this. They have done it as a company before more than once. Be mad about it then, not now. If you like the series buy the game, if you don't then don't. You don't have to get the dlc nor will it really matter if you do. The stone prisoner dlc that came with launch literally did nothing but give a small story to getting a new character who was meh. Its a dlc the diehard fans get for "free" for pre ordering so far in advance, whereas anyone else who wants it has to pay for it. I see no issue with that. That's my point though. They're charging full price for an incomplete game, more or less. I cant believe people still complain about this, a game usually goes "gold" 3-4 weeks before release, so its not a surprise that bioware would work on DLC during this time. The stuff on DLC was never going to be on the game. Day 1 patch or DCL is very common practice. Also Stone prison is free for all NEW (not used) copies on DA:O.
Then it is wardens keep that came with pre orders.
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On March 03 2011 07:08 godemperor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2011 07:04 Ferrose wrote:On March 03 2011 07:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 03 2011 06:42 Ferrose wrote:On March 03 2011 06:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 03 2011 06:09 Ferrose wrote:On March 03 2011 06:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 03 2011 05:38 Ferrose wrote:Now I'm really not gonna buy the game. Fuck you, Bioware. They did it with dragon age as well. Stone prisoner was available upon release, and wardens keep was either available shortly after or at same time as well wasn't it? Didn't it come free with the game though? >.> Edit: Well, I know that Stone Prisoner did at least. When is the DLC gonna be out anyway? Because if it's gonna be out at the same time as the full game, then there's no reason for it to not be in the game in the first place, IMO. Stone prisoner was free with the CLE no idea if it was for the regular. I know that this DLC is free with the dragon age 2 signature edition as well. It is not for the regular. I honestly don't see why people are mad about it. It gives players 1 free character for preordering, or you have to pay to get the person. You don't have to download it to play the game as it was intended -_- But you'd already be paying $60 for the game itself. And now they want an extra $7 on the SAME DAY? They can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Should have pre ordered the sig edition? I honestly have no idea why people are so annoyed over this. They have done it as a company before more than once. Be mad about it then, not now. If you like the series buy the game, if you don't then don't. You don't have to get the dlc nor will it really matter if you do. The stone prisoner dlc that came with launch literally did nothing but give a small story to getting a new character who was meh. Its a dlc the diehard fans get for "free" for pre ordering so far in advance, whereas anyone else who wants it has to pay for it. I see no issue with that. That's my point though. They're charging full price for an incomplete game, more or less. I cant believe people still complain about this, a game usually goes "gold" 3-4 weeks before release, so its not a surprise that bioware would work on DLC during this time. The stuff on DLC was never going to be on the game. Day 1 patch or DCL is very common practice. Also Stone prison is free for all NEW (not used) copies on DA:O.
Exactly, so I considered that to be more of a patch.
Bioware also offered Cerberus Network, which is consisted of couple pretty large DLC packages for free to all those who own a new copy of ME2.
I simply consider it to be unethical that the pricing for DLC never changes until the "Game of the Year Edition" is released, and I also detest the idea that the combined cost of all DLC packages surpasses the actual game itself.
The fact that they released a trailer about a DLC that can not be considered as a patch in any shape or form prior to the release of the actual game simply testifies to a rather detestable direction that the gaming industry is heading toward to.
I read this one interview from the CEO of some gaming company. I can not remember it very clearly as I only scanned through it. However, the general idea was that he encourages the idea of selling an actual game in pieces. The released game should only be a platform that enables DLCs to be playable, for the sake of maximum profitability.
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On March 03 2011 07:16 dukethegold wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2011 07:08 godemperor wrote:On March 03 2011 07:04 Ferrose wrote:On March 03 2011 07:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 03 2011 06:42 Ferrose wrote:On March 03 2011 06:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 03 2011 06:09 Ferrose wrote:On March 03 2011 06:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 03 2011 05:38 Ferrose wrote:Now I'm really not gonna buy the game. Fuck you, Bioware. They did it with dragon age as well. Stone prisoner was available upon release, and wardens keep was either available shortly after or at same time as well wasn't it? Didn't it come free with the game though? >.> Edit: Well, I know that Stone Prisoner did at least. When is the DLC gonna be out anyway? Because if it's gonna be out at the same time as the full game, then there's no reason for it to not be in the game in the first place, IMO. Stone prisoner was free with the CLE no idea if it was for the regular. I know that this DLC is free with the dragon age 2 signature edition as well. It is not for the regular. I honestly don't see why people are mad about it. It gives players 1 free character for preordering, or you have to pay to get the person. You don't have to download it to play the game as it was intended -_- But you'd already be paying $60 for the game itself. And now they want an extra $7 on the SAME DAY? They can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Should have pre ordered the sig edition? I honestly have no idea why people are so annoyed over this. They have done it as a company before more than once. Be mad about it then, not now. If you like the series buy the game, if you don't then don't. You don't have to get the dlc nor will it really matter if you do. The stone prisoner dlc that came with launch literally did nothing but give a small story to getting a new character who was meh. Its a dlc the diehard fans get for "free" for pre ordering so far in advance, whereas anyone else who wants it has to pay for it. I see no issue with that. That's my point though. They're charging full price for an incomplete game, more or less. I cant believe people still complain about this, a game usually goes "gold" 3-4 weeks before release, so its not a surprise that bioware would work on DLC during this time. The stuff on DLC was never going to be on the game. Day 1 patch or DCL is very common practice. Also Stone prison is free for all NEW (not used) copies on DA:O. Exactly, so I considered that to be more of a patch. Bioware also offered Cerberus Network, which is consisted of couple pretty large DLC packages for free to all those who own a new copy of ME2. I simply consider it to be unethical that the pricing for DLC never changes until the "Game of the Year Edition" is released, and I also detest the idea that the combined cost of all DLC packages surpasses the actual game itself. The fact that they released a trailer about a DLC that can not be considered as a patch in any shape or form prior to the release of the actual game simply testifies to a rather detestable direction that the gaming industry is heading toward to. I read this one interview from the CEO of some gaming company. I can not remember it very clearly as I only scanned through it. However, the general idea was that he encourages the idea of selling an actual game in pieces. The released game should only be a platform that enables DLCs to be playable, for the sake of maximum profitability.
First I never said It was a patch, also Stoner Prisoner also had a trailer.
Second, if you add all of ME2 story DCL the total game play time is around 10 hours for price of 24$. You can find many games with worse values than this.
Also what you described in the interview is episodic gaming, this is also common practice see all of the Tell Tale game (monkey island, sam and max, walking dead, strong bad) those are sold in 6 episodes for a total of 30$ or separately.
Lastly, I don't really mind the DLC from bioware since they are good value. (ME2 ones a bit better than DA:O) But if you really want to hate DLC, you should hate companies like Capcom and others, who sell a 24KB unlock code for something already on the disc for 9,99.
Also a side note, most of the these day 1 free (or sometimes paid) DLC are to combat the sales of used game, which i agree with.
Last note, Microsoft and Steam have sales on DLC pretty often 2-3 month after release.
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i just played the demo and the mouse controls are a nightmare
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On March 03 2011 07:27 godemperor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2011 07:16 dukethegold wrote:On March 03 2011 07:08 godemperor wrote:On March 03 2011 07:04 Ferrose wrote:On March 03 2011 07:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 03 2011 06:42 Ferrose wrote:On March 03 2011 06:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 03 2011 06:09 Ferrose wrote:On March 03 2011 06:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 03 2011 05:38 Ferrose wrote:[quote] Now I'm really not gonna buy the game. Fuck you, Bioware. They did it with dragon age as well. Stone prisoner was available upon release, and wardens keep was either available shortly after or at same time as well wasn't it? Didn't it come free with the game though? >.> Edit: Well, I know that Stone Prisoner did at least. When is the DLC gonna be out anyway? Because if it's gonna be out at the same time as the full game, then there's no reason for it to not be in the game in the first place, IMO. Stone prisoner was free with the CLE no idea if it was for the regular. I know that this DLC is free with the dragon age 2 signature edition as well. It is not for the regular. I honestly don't see why people are mad about it. It gives players 1 free character for preordering, or you have to pay to get the person. You don't have to download it to play the game as it was intended -_- But you'd already be paying $60 for the game itself. And now they want an extra $7 on the SAME DAY? They can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Should have pre ordered the sig edition? I honestly have no idea why people are so annoyed over this. They have done it as a company before more than once. Be mad about it then, not now. If you like the series buy the game, if you don't then don't. You don't have to get the dlc nor will it really matter if you do. The stone prisoner dlc that came with launch literally did nothing but give a small story to getting a new character who was meh. Its a dlc the diehard fans get for "free" for pre ordering so far in advance, whereas anyone else who wants it has to pay for it. I see no issue with that. That's my point though. They're charging full price for an incomplete game, more or less. I cant believe people still complain about this, a game usually goes "gold" 3-4 weeks before release, so its not a surprise that bioware would work on DLC during this time. The stuff on DLC was never going to be on the game. Day 1 patch or DCL is very common practice. Also Stone prison is free for all NEW (not used) copies on DA:O. Exactly, so I considered that to be more of a patch. Bioware also offered Cerberus Network, which is consisted of couple pretty large DLC packages for free to all those who own a new copy of ME2. I simply consider it to be unethical that the pricing for DLC never changes until the "Game of the Year Edition" is released, and I also detest the idea that the combined cost of all DLC packages surpasses the actual game itself. The fact that they released a trailer about a DLC that can not be considered as a patch in any shape or form prior to the release of the actual game simply testifies to a rather detestable direction that the gaming industry is heading toward to. I read this one interview from the CEO of some gaming company. I can not remember it very clearly as I only scanned through it. However, the general idea was that he encourages the idea of selling an actual game in pieces. The released game should only be a platform that enables DLCs to be playable, for the sake of maximum profitability. First I never said It was a patch, also Stoner Prisoner also had a trailer. Second, if you add all of ME2 story DCL the total game play time is around 10 hours for price of 24$. You can find many games with worse values than this. Also what you described in the interview is episodic gaming, this is also common practice see all of the Tell Tale game (monkey island, sam and max, walking dead, strong bad) those are sold in 6 episodes for a total of 30$ or separately. Lastly, I don't really mind the DLC from bioware since they are good value. (ME2 ones a bit better than DA:O) But if you really want to hate DLC, you should hate companies like Capcom and others, who sell a 24KB unlock code for something already on the disc for 9,99. Also a side note, most of the these day 1 free (or sometimes paid) DLC are to combat the sales of used game, which i agree with. Last note, Microsoft and Steam have sales on DLC pretty often 2-3 month after release.
ME2 costs $19.99 right now. Its DLCs are only available on its main website. The steam DLCs that you described are either ones large enough to be labeled as expansion such as Awakening or jawdropping cash milking schemes such as COD map packs.
Episodic gaming is fine as long as the content and the pricing are proportional. Half Life episodes offer significant content with good pricing. Furthermore, Half Life episodes do not require the original game to run as episodes are not mods. DLCs are not episodes and they require the original game to run.
I do not mind the idea of selling DLC. I however simply detest the increasing emphasis on DLC as an expectant component of gaming. They are cutting out the better components of the game and selling them separately knowing you will pay extra if you like the game.
I am personally guilty of purchasing several DLC. You don't realize how much they add up until you think about it later. It's not just a matter of money, but also of principle.
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On March 03 2011 07:32 Brandish wrote:
i just played the demo and the mouse controls are a nightmare
What? How? They are just the same as Baldurs gate/Dragon age origin. Unless you you are playing with the more "actiony" console style camera and controls setting.
On March 03 2011 07:36 dukethegold wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2011 07:27 godemperor wrote:On March 03 2011 07:16 dukethegold wrote:On March 03 2011 07:08 godemperor wrote:On March 03 2011 07:04 Ferrose wrote:On March 03 2011 07:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 03 2011 06:42 Ferrose wrote:On March 03 2011 06:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 03 2011 06:09 Ferrose wrote:On March 03 2011 06:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
[quote]
They did it with dragon age as well.
Stone prisoner was available upon release, and wardens keep was either available shortly after or at same time as well wasn't it? Didn't it come free with the game though? >.> Edit: Well, I know that Stone Prisoner did at least. When is the DLC gonna be out anyway? Because if it's gonna be out at the same time as the full game, then there's no reason for it to not be in the game in the first place, IMO. Stone prisoner was free with the CLE no idea if it was for the regular. I know that this DLC is free with the dragon age 2 signature edition as well. It is not for the regular. I honestly don't see why people are mad about it. It gives players 1 free character for preordering, or you have to pay to get the person. You don't have to download it to play the game as it was intended -_- But you'd already be paying $60 for the game itself. And now they want an extra $7 on the SAME DAY? They can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Should have pre ordered the sig edition? I honestly have no idea why people are so annoyed over this. They have done it as a company before more than once. Be mad about it then, not now. If you like the series buy the game, if you don't then don't. You don't have to get the dlc nor will it really matter if you do. The stone prisoner dlc that came with launch literally did nothing but give a small story to getting a new character who was meh. Its a dlc the diehard fans get for "free" for pre ordering so far in advance, whereas anyone else who wants it has to pay for it. I see no issue with that. That's my point though. They're charging full price for an incomplete game, more or less. I cant believe people still complain about this, a game usually goes "gold" 3-4 weeks before release, so its not a surprise that bioware would work on DLC during this time. The stuff on DLC was never going to be on the game. Day 1 patch or DCL is very common practice. Also Stone prison is free for all NEW (not used) copies on DA:O. Exactly, so I considered that to be more of a patch. Bioware also offered Cerberus Network, which is consisted of couple pretty large DLC packages for free to all those who own a new copy of ME2. I simply consider it to be unethical that the pricing for DLC never changes until the "Game of the Year Edition" is released, and I also detest the idea that the combined cost of all DLC packages surpasses the actual game itself. The fact that they released a trailer about a DLC that can not be considered as a patch in any shape or form prior to the release of the actual game simply testifies to a rather detestable direction that the gaming industry is heading toward to. I read this one interview from the CEO of some gaming company. I can not remember it very clearly as I only scanned through it. However, the general idea was that he encourages the idea of selling an actual game in pieces. The released game should only be a platform that enables DLCs to be playable, for the sake of maximum profitability. First I never said It was a patch, also Stoner Prisoner also had a trailer. Second, if you add all of ME2 story DCL the total game play time is around 10 hours for price of 24$. You can find many games with worse values than this. Also what you described in the interview is episodic gaming, this is also common practice see all of the Tell Tale game (monkey island, sam and max, walking dead, strong bad) those are sold in 6 episodes for a total of 30$ or separately. Lastly, I don't really mind the DLC from bioware since they are good value. (ME2 ones a bit better than DA:O) But if you really want to hate DLC, you should hate companies like Capcom and others, who sell a 24KB unlock code for something already on the disc for 9,99. Also a side note, most of the these day 1 free (or sometimes paid) DLC are to combat the sales of used game, which i agree with. Last note, Microsoft and Steam have sales on DLC pretty often 2-3 month after release. ME2 costs $19.99 right now. Its DLCs are only available on its main website. The steam DLCs that you described are either ones large enough to be labeled as expansion such as Awakening or jawdropping cash milking schemes such as COD map packs.
I dont get what you mean by the DCL like Awakening. There are only weapons pack, whcih cost 2$, several story ones which cost 7-10$. There was a sale couple of month ago in which you can get all of the story DLC for 10$ (or 15$, i forget).
Episodic gaming is fine as long as the content and the pricing are proportional. Half Life episodes offer significant content with good pricing. Furthermore, Half Life episodes do not require the original game to run as episodes are not mods. DLCs are not episodes and they require the original game to run.
Sorry i mean no offense, but i just can take someone who calls Half Life episodes episodic gaming seriously, theres been 2 episodes for the last 3 year with no announcement for ep3. Also, dont put words in my mouth, I did NOT say DLC=episodic gaming, i told you what you were describing in the interview you mentioned.
Lastly the Tell Tale episodic games are 3 hours long each, don't require other episodes and come out 1 per month, 6 episodes in a season.
Speaking of BAD DLC, i just remembered i was one of those fools who bought the Horse Armour DCL for oblivion. And could not use it cos the horse got killed in game, sigh...
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I dont get what you mean by the DCL like Awakening. There are only weapons pack, whcih cost 2$, several story ones which cost 7-10$. There was a sale couple of month ago in which you can get all of the story DLC for 10$ (or 15$, i forget).
I can't access steam at the moment as I am on my laptop. If DA DLCs are available on steam, that's something new to me as I am pretty certain it used to be available only for bioware points for a pretty long time.
I know for a certainty that ME2 DLCs are only available for bioware points.
Let's put it this way. The Lair of the Shadow Broker is perhaps one of the best, if not the best, DLCs ever released by any game to date. It costs $10 and adds around 2 to 3 hours of high quality gameplay.
However, ME2 in its entirety cost $59.99 at release. Is Lair of the Shadow Broker proportional to 1/6 of Mass Effect 2? Not even close. In term of value v.s. cost ratio, DLC can not be justified.
But at least the Lair of the Shadow Broker may perhaps be worth purchasing because it is the best of the companion missions and of higher quality than majority of the game. Now think of other DLCs, has the industry shown itself to be consistent in bring out better content with its DLCs? No, at least not from what I have observed. A possible solution to that, of course, is water down the main game in order to make the DLCs more attractive, cut out the "coolest" parts and "essential" parts out to be sold in separated packages. That's the direction I detest and the one that the industry seems to be heading toward to. The "batteries are sold separately" direction.
Sorry i mean no offense, but i just can take someone who calls Half Life episodes episodic gaming seriously, theres been 2 episodes for the last 3 year with no announcement for ep3. Also, dont put words in my mouth, I did NOT say DLC=episodic gaming, i told you what you were describing in the interview you mentioned.
Lastly the Tell Tale episodic games are 3 hours long each, don't require other episodes and come out 1 per month, 6 episodes in a season.
Speaking of BAD DLC, i just remembered i was one of those fools who bought the Horse Armour DCL for oblivion. And could not use it cos the horse got killed in game, sigh...
I am not familiar of the Tell Tale franchise. I consider myself a very casual gamer who is probably a part of the vast majority of customers out there. When one speaks of episodic gaming, one thinks of Half Life episodes. I am merely pointing out that we are talking about DLCs here and episodic gaming is in no way relevant to the topic.
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@dukethegold just left pc and my Ipad can't quote ur reply with the crappy public Internet. Not to derail this thread, just wanna say I guess those dlc are not on Steam, my memory pretty bad. Dlc values will never be as good as the original game, but they are good addition if you like the game. Also of course I hope all dlc are free, I'm just making a case that you should critisise others rather than bioware who makes the best dlc along with Bethesda. Also dlc has become a lot better since it first started, no more 5$ for horse armor, 5$ for a txt unlock code, 10$ for a 30 min story mission, 10$ for really lame mini game (I have not forgotten you fable pub games). Man Dlc from 06-08 were really rough.
Lastly can't wait for ME 3 and DA2!
I forgot to mention, I can't believe you have not heard of tell tale, they are almost approaching the wii in terms of casualness. Most of casual friends like to play thier adventure games.
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On March 02 2011 21:34 Casta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 20:52 Torenhire wrote:
I think there's just two types of "RPG fans" out there.
Like...I feel like there's two ends of a spectrum
Action/Adventure | | | | | | | | | Roleplaying/Immersion.
Different people like different things, and nowadays everything is getting "dumbed down" ...I mean really, name one game that will make a lasting effect on the video game world that came out recently. Of any recently released game, do you think any of them will be like...Link to the Past, Baldur's Gate/NWN, Broodwar...that just last forever and are constantly brought up 10 years down the road. BG and NWN are considered epic RPGs (and I love the entire BG / NWN series to death, don't take this the wrong way) but they just don't cater to the market anymore (the mass market). They focus too much on immersion and player interaction - there's not enough handholding, and face it...people want handholding nowadays. Look at any RPG that comes out - It's the equivalent of 1a2a3a most of the time. You have a start, and a finish, and you go there in a straight line.
Look at WoW's pretty impressive lifetime.
Vanilla: Tough raids. Took some work and dedication. PVP Titles were no joke either.
BC: Maybe two hard raids. Rest were pretty simple. lols Arena.
Wrath: 1a2a3a all dungeons.
It's pretty easy to see - and we can even put Bioware as the example - how companies are shifting from a "Here's a story to guide you, have at it." to a more linear "Here's your path through our story."
It's just so much easier to put out a pre-built RPG and run your tests from point A to B and forget about it to start your next game. Not that it's bad or anything...it's what the market eats up. I think that nowadays the gaming business is getting too afraid to try new stuff. You can compare the gaming industry to the movie industry in a number of ways. For example the newest action film with top of the line action scenes and awesome 3d graphics with a multimillion dollar budget might appeal to broadest audience, but will never make a lasting impact if the story is horseshit. In the movie industry there is a market for the more in depth movies because they found out that some of the audience actually have a brain. This tendency is also present in the gaming industry, but it is getting increasingly harder to distinguish crap from value because of all the overhype and preorder madness currently going on. Over the years I have become more and more critical of what kind of games I want to spend my money on, because I don't want to fund a game developer who is just looking for easy money with a game that don't want to challenge me with exciting gameplay or tactical decisions. In short you are right that different people want different games, but if all the game developers want to make easy digestable short lasting products the gaming industry will never advance forward. I think that some game developers want to make a mark on the world instead like in so many other professions, that once in a while we will see a title that will blow our mind  Dragion age 2 is just not one of them...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to justify it or anything. I much much much prefer challenging gameplay in any genre.
I was just trying to calm the "wtf RPG genre = shit" argument down just a bit by explaining WHY 99% of modern RPGs are pretty gimp.
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51472 Posts
How much of a difference are the console versions of DA compared to the PC? I completed DA:O on my PC and after trying the demo of DA2 for my PS3, it feels like a completely different game.
Sure, I love not having a horrid frame rate and pretty graphics, but I'd rather have the flexibility of a mouse/keyboard than using the weird interface on the PS3.
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On March 04 2011 15:55 GTR wrote:
How much of a difference are the console versions of DA compared to the PC? I completed DA:O on my PC and after trying the demo of DA2 for my PS3, it feels like a completely different game.
Sure, I love not having a horrid frame rate and pretty graphics, but I'd rather have the flexibility of a mouse/keyboard than using the weird interface on the PS3.
I would say get the PC. The console version of DA:O had its difficulty decreaced by a full level so that normal on the console was actually easy on the pc. You also get the ability to download mods for the pc as well as all the ease of use of keyboard hotkeys, pausing the game and surveying the battlefield and giving movement orders is so much easier with a mouse and keyboard when playing the demo on my ps3 it was so much more of a chore (not as bad now with the updates to the combat system but still far better on the pc)
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On March 04 2011 15:55 GTR wrote:
How much of a difference are the console versions of DA compared to the PC? I completed DA:O on my PC and after trying the demo of DA2 for my PS3, it feels like a completely different game.
Sure, I love not having a horrid frame rate and pretty graphics, but I'd rather have the flexibility of a mouse/keyboard than using the weird interface on the PS3.
Personally, I prefer, and still am going to go with the PC version. However, I can tell you that Dragon Age 2 was designed with the consoles in mind. Whereas the 'port' was awkward for Origins, it is no longer the case with Dragon Age 2.
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On March 02 2011 20:52 Torenhire wrote:
I think there's just two types of "RPG fans" out there.
Like...I feel like there's two ends of a spectrum
Action/Adventure | | | | | | | | | Roleplaying/Immersion.
I... Dunno. Personally i think the roleplaying/immersion in Mass Effect (first one), The witcher and Fallout:NV was not far behind Baldurs Gate/Fallout 2. There was more action, yes, but in perhaps Mass Effect more than anything i might consider the immersion as best ever.
I do not agree with the implication that "slow" = "good roleplay". Mass Effect had a shit-ton of text and story to enjoy, i might be one of the few who read every single entry in the log. While still having a nice action combat system full of strategy and tactics.
Different people like different things, and nowadays everything is getting "dumbed down" ...I mean really, name one game that will make a lasting effect on the video game world that came out recently. Of any recently released game, do you think any of them will be like... Link to the Past, Baldur's Gate/NWN, Broodwar...that just last forever and are constantly brought up 10 years down the road. BG and NWN are considered epic RPGs (and I love the entire BG / NWN series to death, don't take this the wrong way) but they just don't cater to the market anymore (the mass market).
Here is a problem, thoose games you mentioned came out when you where young and made a massive and lasting impression on you, and me for that matter, to expect anything to match the impact thoose games had on you is to expect to much. It would be nice to have something impact the market in the same way, but most things have been tried already and revolutions will become scarcer.
Ones i can think of is not even an RPG or PC game, but i think it could be considered Super Mario Galaxy (1&2) for Wii being on a similar level. Thoose games blew my mind even as dedicated gamer for 15+ years. Perhaps Portal aswell, it was way to short but damn that was fun.
They focus too much on immersion and player interaction - there's not enough handholding, and face it...people want handholding nowadays. Look at any RPG that comes out - It's the equivalent of 1a2a3a most of the time. You have a start, and a finish, and you go there in a straight line.
I agree on the fact that there is so much less hand-holding in the old classics. I like the term player interaction, and it is pretty accurate when describing BG-series. But i think the main reason for them being less popular now is graphics/speed. Had a couple of friends who loved Fallout 3 so they decided to try Fallout 2, none of them finished it since they all felt it moved to slow. They liked the world and the story aspect, but felt it took to long time for everything.
As for linear games, that is one place where i feel new games are beating the old classics. DA:O was about as linear as BG:2 was, you had your story to follow but could go off do some sidequests if you wanted. Not really a sandbox game like Fallout/Elder scrolls series but not totally linear like some Final Fantasy series.
And not sure new games are easier either, in BG:2 if you knew what you where doing you could absolutely destroy everything you faced. Hell a Mage/Thief dual-class could solo the game without to much trouble (i did, including expansion). Pretty similar to DA:O, but i guess boss fights in DA:O is a lot easier. Would have like a Demogorgon diffuculty boss, then again i would have liked that in BG:2 aswell as main boss so...
Mass Effect on highest diff is pretty challenging and you need to think about most fights how to use your squad and thier abilities. The Witcher was a nice challenge on higher difficulties, you needed to spend time on your potions and prepare in a different way before battles.
Look at WoW's pretty impressive lifetime.
Vanilla: Tough raids. Took some work and dedication. PVP Titles were no joke either.
BC: Maybe two hard raids. Rest were pretty simple. lols Arena.
Wrath: 1a2a3a all dungeons.
Not played WoW since vanilla so cant comment on this.
It's pretty easy to see - and we can even put Bioware as the example - how companies are shifting from a "Here's a story to guide you, have at it." to a more linear "Here's your path through our story."
It's just so much easier to put out a pre-built RPG and run your tests from point A to B and forget about it to start your next game. Not that it's bad or anything...it's what the market eats up/.
I think you are seeing what you want to see. DA:O was not more linear than BG:2. Mass Effect was really linear, and like you say "Here's your path through our story". But it never pretended otherwise. Fallout 3 / Fallout:NV was not linear at all. Bioware has really never ben much for sandbox RPG's, Icewind Dale was also linear.
I am not sure I am accomplishing much here, but there is just so much "hate" for new RPG's being to dumb/easy/linear/action based that i can not agree with. I agree that combat is more action-based in the new RPG's, but i disagree that that also means there is less roleplaying, or even tactics involved.
As for Dragon Age 2, i will try it. Dragon Age one did not leave any massive impression on me, mostly i think because of mages being to powerful and the lack of a proper villain.
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Icewind Dale has nothing to do with BioWare, only connection is the Infinity engine.
And whatever you say, Dragon Age was much more linear than BG2. I would compare DAO to BG1 in simplicity and linearity instead.
But if you watched the gameplay videos (or played the demo) of DA2, you would see what we are talking about, where the new rpgs are going. They go to console, and console gamers are much more casual, and the interface is much more simpler (nothing can replace a mouse), so you have to make games more simple. And less and less people are interested in rpg (computer or tabletop), so money lays elsewhere, for example fast paced action games with rpg elements (like ME).
Bioware should be rich, thats out of question, for what they did in the past and nowadays, but if they wont make games so epic and really rpgish like BG2, than we lost something from the world (Fallout was never my style, i played it, and its really good rpg, but i stick to fantasy).
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I played the demo and I liked what I saw, but I had to take my beef with several issues:
1. The Ass-Effect-2'd UI. What's up with that? Whatever was wrong with DAO's?
2. Sometimes the dialogue choices were too transparent for me. Really now, does the game have to do my critical thinking for me, or is it because the console retards didn't bother to pay attention during literature class in school and can't interpret dialogue even if their lives depended on it?
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On March 04 2011 17:13 DND_Enkil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 20:52 Torenhire wrote:
I think there's just two types of "RPG fans" out there.
Like...I feel like there's two ends of a spectrum
Action/Adventure | | | | | | | | | Roleplaying/Immersion. I... Dunno. Personally i think the roleplaying/immersion in Mass Effect (first one), The witcher and Fallout:NV was not far behind Baldurs Gate/Fallout 2. There was more action, yes, but in perhaps Mass Effect more than anything i might consider the immersion as best ever. I do not agree with the implication that "slow" = "good roleplay". Mass Effect had a shit-ton of text and story to enjoy, i might be one of the few who read every single entry in the log. While still having a nice action combat system full of strategy and tactics.
I never meant to imply slow = good roleplay. I never meant to imply an RPG that takes 2 years to beat is any better than an RPG that takes an 2 hours to beat, just based on time spent in the game. I enjoyed the storyline in Mass Effect, I thought it was pretty good. I loved the Witcher as well...thought that game was pretty fun, actually, until my save corrupted and I didn't feel like playing it again - Witcher 2 is coming out anyways. I would argue about ME taking a lot of strategy and tactics, as even on max difficulty it wasn't as hardcore as I thought it could have been.
Show nested quote +Different people like different things, and nowadays everything is getting "dumbed down" ...I mean really, name one game that will make a lasting effect on the video game world that came out recently. Of any recently released game, do you think any of them will be like... Link to the Past, Baldur's Gate/NWN, Broodwar...that just last forever and are constantly brought up 10 years down the road. BG and NWN are considered epic RPGs (and I love the entire BG / NWN series to death, don't take this the wrong way) but they just don't cater to the market anymore (the mass market). Here is a problem, thoose games you mentioned came out when you where young and made a massive and lasting impression on you, and me for that matter, to expect anything to match the impact thoose games had on you is to expect to much. It would be nice to have something impact the market in the same way, but most things have been tried already and revolutions will become scarcer. Ones i can think of is not even an RPG or PC game, but i think it could be considered Super Mario Galaxy (1&2) for Wii being on a similar level. Thoose games blew my mind even as dedicated gamer for 15+ years. Perhaps Portal aswell, it was way to short but damn that was fun.
Not so much true. Not trying to be the LIAR LIAR here but...
I played Baldur's Gate for the first time over Christmas in 2010...and promptly went and found BG2, NWN and NWN2. Link to the Past I still play now, even. We were just playing it like two days ago on Ustream with some friends, it's great. People who have never seen the game before will steal my SNES (still hooked up to my TV) just to finish it over a weekend. Broodwar would really be the only one I consider playing as a kid and making an impression on me. I guess LTTP has bias but that game STILL shows up on Top 50 game lists - so I'm not the only one who thinks LTTP is a freaking epic RPG.
Show nested quote +They focus too much on immersion and player interaction - there's not enough handholding, and face it...people want handholding nowadays. Look at any RPG that comes out - It's the equivalent of 1a2a3a most of the time. You have a start, and a finish, and you go there in a straight line. I agree on the fact that there is so much less hand-holding in the old classics. I like the term player interaction, and it is pretty accurate when describing BG-series. But i think the main reason for them being less popular now is graphics/speed. Had a couple of friends who loved Fallout 3 so they decided to try Fallout 2, none of them finished it since they all felt it moved to slow. They liked the world and the story aspect, but felt it took to long time for everything. As for linear games, that is one place where i feel new games are beating the old classics. DA:O was about as linear as BG:2 was, you had your story to follow but could go off do some sidequests if you wanted. Not really a sandbox game like Fallout/Elder scrolls series but not totally linear like some Final Fantasy series. And not sure new games are easier either, in BG:2 if you knew what you where doing you could absolutely destroy everything you faced. Hell a Mage/Thief dual-class could solo the game without to much trouble (i did, including expansion). Pretty similar to DA:O, but i guess boss fights in DA:O is a lot easier. Would have like a Demogorgon diffuculty boss, then again i would have liked that in BG:2 aswell as main boss so... Mass Effect on highest diff is pretty challenging and you need to think about most fights how to use your squad and thier abilities. The Witcher was a nice challenge on higher difficulties, you needed to spend time on your potions and prepare in a different way before battles.
I kind of explained this poorly, all RPGs (at least RPGs that apply to the topic) are linear in some way shape or form, regardless of whether you're going
a------b
a----c-----d---j--w----s--t---s--b
Right, but to a certain point, fast-paced turns into making everything lazy for the player. You can't argue that - this is just DA2/DA:O related - the dialogue system in DA:O wasn't perfectly fine, and there was reason to simplify it to an even EASIER version of the ME wheel. You don't even have to read the text. Dove or Fist. At least some of the options in DA:O were not as straight forward.
I understand difficulty levels can be changed - but I disagree with your BG2 comment. So you knew how to pick a really strong class combo. You want a harder game? Don't do a crazy hardcore class combo. If you wanted to make that game freakish hard you could....so I don't feel like that applies. Fact is that people are lazy in their video games now, and people just want Flashy super epic graphics and if it doesn't, they can't seem to look beyond that.
Show nested quote +It's pretty easy to see - and we can even put Bioware as the example - how companies are shifting from a "Here's a story to guide you, have at it." to a more linear "Here's your path through our story."
It's just so much easier to put out a pre-built RPG and run your tests from point A to B and forget about it to start your next game. Not that it's bad or anything...it's what the market eats up/. I think you are seeing what you want to see. DA:O was not more linear than BG:2. Mass Effect was really linear, and like you say "Here's your path through our story". But it never pretended otherwise. Fallout 3 / Fallout:NV was not linear at all. Bioware has really never ben much for sandbox RPG's, Icewind Dale was also linear. I am not sure I am accomplishing much here, but there is just so much "hate" for new RPG's being to dumb/easy/linear/action based that i can not agree with. I agree that combat is more action-based in the new RPG's, but i disagree that that also means there is less roleplaying, or even tactics involved. As for Dragon Age 2, i will try it. Dragon Age one did not leave any massive impression on me, mostly i think because of mages being to powerful and the lack of a proper villain.
Fallout 3 / NV are kind of like The Elder Scrolls - they almost feel like a different genre, honestly. I also never said I "hated" new RPGs anywhere - in fact I said that it's not bad that companies are releasing more "guided" RPGs in terms of storyline. Some of my favorite RPGs are totally one dimensional linear.
Linear RPGs with absolutely zero side-quests or romance side stories or anything like that are okay, but the problem arises (with me) when I don't feel like I'm accomplishing anything. Portal - great example from earlier - that game could have been 50x harder and I still would have loved that game. Sideplots? What? I think you're misinterpreting what I said as "Linear RPGs are bad" where what I meant was "RPGs where I hardly have to do anything, or don't even have to think are bad"
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On March 06 2011 04:22 DoubleZee wrote:
Pre load is up on steam.
thank you! YES only 3 more days :D i know theres alot of haters but i personally cant wait to dive into DA2
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I'm going on a SC2 spurlge because I know DA2 will be dominating my free time over the next few weeks.
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EPT
