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On March 30 2013 16:31 Exoteric wrote:
This was a joy to play through, but from watching early demos of the game again, it had the potential to be even better if they kept more stuff in.
I rewatched it again recently as well and must agree. There is a lot of really cool stuff that had to have been cut to get to where we ended up. That's not to say the end product isn't amazing, it's still as good or better than I've ever seen in a lot of ways. That 2011 demo though just sings out about what we have to look forward to when improved technology and development techniques open up the freedom for them to work in some of those elements on the larger scale outside of a scripted demo (the main ones I'm thinking of are larger scale combat/environmental sets and more on-the-fly friendly and hostile interaction and advanced combat AI). Much of it should already be doable, it's just a matter of limited resources I imagine, as well as having to deal with console requirements.
That said, there were a number of aspects of that demo that I just think we probably won't ever see, or at least won't with any consistency and depth throughout a game. That demo worked as well as it did because it was largely scripted to do so, but with so many variables of player action, there also comes a million and a half ways to break it or at least disrupt the narrative flow.
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Lalalaland34502 Posts
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I've never read anything more wrong in my life than what avs posted. 1999 mode is significantly harder than hard mode. claiming infinite ammo is a joke (unless you use pistol + machine gun, as they are the most common ammo), saying salts is better than everything by a mile is also false, health is more effective for shotgun/melee/pistol users while shields are better artillery styles, and salts for mid range. His gun choice explantion is definitely wrong as well. The difference between the repeater and the machine gun is actually pretty big. yeah they both fire bullets quickly, but they do different amounts of damage at different ranges with different spread recoil and upgrades. the healer can light oil does additional damage to mechanical and has a circle shapes spread, the shotgun cannot those things and has a fan shapes spread.
all the guns are very much different. and saying sniper + explosive is pretty wrong. since abusing the weak point of an enemy is always the best way, sniper for helmets, mid range for the non helmeted heads, shotguns for the explosive wielders, explosives work best against the airships, and guns like burst gun/carbine work best against patriots and handymen. you can't lump guns like you did. its just wrong.
Then the vigors, shock is the easiest to use, but not the strongest, bronco does the stun portion better than shock, devils kiss does the damage better (and the aoe better) crows controls a group better than any of them, Charge allows for the best mobility, which is something that is very useful in handyman fights as well as any fights dealing with explosives or airships. Undertow is probably the most powerful vigor, as it can kill groups in a single cast when positioned well. Return to sender is the best anti vigor user weapon in the game as well. possession becomes useless in fights with mobile enemies or long range ones with cover, its also useless vs patriots.
Gear changes so much of how the game can be played. a single cast of crows can keep a group tied up longer than expending your whole salts meter can when you get the traps gear and the upgrade.
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DO NOT CLICK IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED THE GAME
+ Show Spoiler +The thing I still don't understand is how you get to actually experience Booker getting killed by the Elizabeths. Your Booker is not part of this reality, he refused the baptism and didn't get to that point in time. In my understanding the Booker that gets killed at the end should be seen at the 3rd person, like the ones you see in the "infinite lightouses" scene.
The more I think about the ending, the less it makes sense actually... Are you actually the Booker that refused the baptism? If not, why would it even matter if you died? If yes, why would you get to experience Comstock's baptism?
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On March 30 2013 19:19 PrinceXizor wrote:
I've never read anything more wrong in my life than what avs posted. 1999 mode is significantly harder than hard mode. claiming infinite ammo is a joke (unless you use pistol + machine gun, as they are the most common ammo), saying salts is better than everything by a mile is also false, health is more effective for shotgun/melee/pistol users while shields are better artillery styles, and salts for mid range. His gun choice explantion is definitely wrong as well. The difference between the repeater and the machine gun is actually pretty big. yeah they both fire bullets quickly, but they do different amounts of damage at different ranges with different spread recoil and upgrades. the healer can light oil does additional damage to mechanical and has a circle shapes spread, the shotgun cannot those things and has a fan shapes spread.
all the guns are very much different. and saying sniper + explosive is pretty wrong. since abusing the weak point of an enemy is always the best way, sniper for helmets, mid range for the non helmeted heads, shotguns for the explosive wielders, explosives work best against the airships, and guns like burst gun/carbine work best against patriots and handymen. you can't lump guns like you did. its just wrong.
Then the vigors, shock is the easiest to use, but not the strongest, bronco does the stun portion better than shock, devils kiss does the damage better (and the aoe better) crows controls a group better than any of them, Charge allows for the best mobility, which is something that is very useful in handyman fights as well as any fights dealing with explosives or airships. Undertow is probably the most powerful vigor, as it can kill groups in a single cast when positioned well. Return to sender is the best anti vigor user weapon in the game as well. possession becomes useless in fights with mobile enemies or long range ones with cover, its also useless vs patriots.
Gear changes so much of how the game can be played. a single cast of crows can keep a group tied up longer than expending your whole salts meter can when you get the traps gear and the upgrade.
For shotgun and melee "builds" I think shield and salt is the best and health the worst, because charge + shotgun + lots of shield is a great combination later in the game. Charge allows you to regenerate shields and be invincible for a short duration, while you get close and destroy everything with a shotgun.
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On March 30 2013 19:41 MilesTeg wrote:DO NOT CLICK IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED THE GAME + Show Spoiler +The thing I still don't understand is how you get to actually experience Booker getting killed by the Elizabeths. Your Booker is not part of this reality, he refused the baptism and didn't get to that point in time. In my understanding the Booker that gets killed at the end should be seen at the 3rd person, like the ones you see in the "infinite lightouses" scene.
The more I think about the ending, the less it makes sense actually... Are you actually the Booker that refused the baptism? If not, why would it even matter if you died? If yes, why would you get to experience Comstock's baptism?
+ Show Spoiler +Nosebleeds. When one booker gets killed they all remember his life and experiences. by killing Dewitt at the root of all the universes all dewitts will feel the way Booker does.
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On March 30 2013 19:41 MilesTeg wrote:DO NOT CLICK IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED THE GAME + Show Spoiler +The thing I still don't understand is how you get to actually experience Booker getting killed by the Elizabeths. Your Booker is not part of this reality, he refused the baptism and didn't get to that point in time. In my understanding the Booker that gets killed at the end should be seen at the 3rd person, like the ones you see in the "infinite lightouses" scene.
The more I think about the ending, the less it makes sense actually... Are you actually the Booker that refused the baptism? If not, why would it even matter if you died? If yes, why would you get to experience Comstock's baptism?
+ Show Spoiler +The Booker that gets drown hasn't made the Comstock choice yet, by killing him there before the choice is made you erase the Comstock timeline's but also the timelines where he gives his daughter away. That's why all the Elizabeth's disappear at the end, they never existed.
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On March 30 2013 19:46 Chillax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 19:41 MilesTeg wrote:DO NOT CLICK IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED THE GAME + Show Spoiler +The thing I still don't understand is how you get to actually experience Booker getting killed by the Elizabeths. Your Booker is not part of this reality, he refused the baptism and didn't get to that point in time. In my understanding the Booker that gets killed at the end should be seen at the 3rd person, like the ones you see in the "infinite lightouses" scene.
The more I think about the ending, the less it makes sense actually... Are you actually the Booker that refused the baptism? If not, why would it even matter if you died? If yes, why would you get to experience Comstock's baptism?
+ Show Spoiler +The Booker that gets drown hasn't made the Comstock choice yet, by killing him there before the choice is made you erase the Comstock timeline's but also the timelines where he gives his daughter away. That's why all the Elizabeth's disappear at the end, they never existed.
+ Show Spoiler +
Then what of the Booker that wakes up after the credits. My understanding was that only "Comstock versions of Booker" died at that point. Otherwise Anna wouldn't even be born, every single Booker dies after the Wounded Knee, and the last scene seems impossible.
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On March 30 2013 19:45 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 19:41 MilesTeg wrote:DO NOT CLICK IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED THE GAME + Show Spoiler +The thing I still don't understand is how you get to actually experience Booker getting killed by the Elizabeths. Your Booker is not part of this reality, he refused the baptism and didn't get to that point in time. In my understanding the Booker that gets killed at the end should be seen at the 3rd person, like the ones you see in the "infinite lightouses" scene.
The more I think about the ending, the less it makes sense actually... Are you actually the Booker that refused the baptism? If not, why would it even matter if you died? If yes, why would you get to experience Comstock's baptism?
+ Show Spoiler +Nosebleeds. When one booker gets killed they all remember his life and experiences. by killing Dewitt at the root of all the universes all dewitts will feel the way Booker does.
+ Show Spoiler +Hmm so what happens in that scene is that Booker remembers a death that didn't really happen to him? Am I getting this right?
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Sorry for ruining the thread with spoilers :p Maybe we should start another thread just for the plot.
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On March 30 2013 19:52 MilesTeg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 19:46 Chillax wrote:On March 30 2013 19:41 MilesTeg wrote:DO NOT CLICK IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED THE GAME + Show Spoiler +The thing I still don't understand is how you get to actually experience Booker getting killed by the Elizabeths. Your Booker is not part of this reality, he refused the baptism and didn't get to that point in time. In my understanding the Booker that gets killed at the end should be seen at the 3rd person, like the ones you see in the "infinite lightouses" scene.
The more I think about the ending, the less it makes sense actually... Are you actually the Booker that refused the baptism? If not, why would it even matter if you died? If yes, why would you get to experience Comstock's baptism?
+ Show Spoiler +The Booker that gets drown hasn't made the Comstock choice yet, by killing him there before the choice is made you erase the Comstock timeline's but also the timelines where he gives his daughter away. That's why all the Elizabeth's disappear at the end, they never existed. + Show Spoiler +
Then what of the Booker that wakes up after the credits. My understanding was that only "Comstock versions of Booker" died at that point. Otherwise Anna wouldn't even be born, every single Booker dies after the Wounded Knee, and the last scene seems impossible.
+ Show Spoiler +
That's quite simple actually, your assuming every Booker went to be baptized. Some never even went there or made the choice. The guy in the credits could have easily been from such a timeline. Hell his wife might even have been alive in that reality. Infinite possibility's remember.
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Lalalaland34502 Posts
You guys discussing this stuff, go read the link motbob posted, especially the first one:
On March 30 2013 14:37 motbob wrote:If you finished the game, read this and this.
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Lalalaland34502 Posts
On March 30 2013 19:55 Chillax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 19:52 MilesTeg wrote:On March 30 2013 19:46 Chillax wrote:On March 30 2013 19:41 MilesTeg wrote:DO NOT CLICK IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED THE GAME + Show Spoiler +The thing I still don't understand is how you get to actually experience Booker getting killed by the Elizabeths. Your Booker is not part of this reality, he refused the baptism and didn't get to that point in time. In my understanding the Booker that gets killed at the end should be seen at the 3rd person, like the ones you see in the "infinite lightouses" scene.
The more I think about the ending, the less it makes sense actually... Are you actually the Booker that refused the baptism? If not, why would it even matter if you died? If yes, why would you get to experience Comstock's baptism?
+ Show Spoiler +The Booker that gets drown hasn't made the Comstock choice yet, by killing him there before the choice is made you erase the Comstock timeline's but also the timelines where he gives his daughter away. That's why all the Elizabeth's disappear at the end, they never existed. + Show Spoiler +
Then what of the Booker that wakes up after the credits. My understanding was that only "Comstock versions of Booker" died at that point. Otherwise Anna wouldn't even be born, every single Booker dies after the Wounded Knee, and the last scene seems impossible.
+ Show Spoiler +
That's quite simple actually, your assuming every Booker went to be baptized. Some never even went there or made the choice. The guy in the credits could have easily been from such a timeline. Hell his wife might even have been alive in that reality. Infinite possibility's remember.
+ Show Spoiler +The point is that they isolated the root of the split to the moment where Booker accepts or declines the baptism. Elizabeth shows you the baptism scene twice, allowing you to 'relive' it; the first time, you reject the baptism - this is Booker's timeline, so it proceeds as normal. The second time, you are 'merged' into Comstock's Booker, and at the moment just before you accept the baptism, Elizabeth smothers you. This prevents the continuation of Comstock's timeline, thus allowing the Booker timeline to proceed normally (the post-credits scene). The reason you are so surprised to hear Emma's cry is because you always keep your memories from other world lives (nosebleeds, etc).
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This is literally all speculation though right, at this point I don't think there's any true cannon explanation? I'm not saying I'm right I'm just not entirely convinced anyone else is either.
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+ Show Spoiler +Any clues about what happened when you first entered Columbia, when you were baptized / almost drowned and suddenly woke up in a fountain without any door behind you?
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Lalalaland34502 Posts
On March 30 2013 20:12 Chillax wrote:
This is literally all speculation though right, at this point I don't think there's any true cannon explanation? I'm not saying I'm right I'm just not entirely convinced anyone else is either.
I like the explanation that I gave you because it ties up all loose ends, makes sense, and results in a happy ending. ^_^
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Lalalaland34502 Posts
On March 30 2013 20:13 Kahzaar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Any clues about what happened when you first entered Columbia, when you were baptized / almost drowned and suddenly woke up in a fountain without any door behind you?
+ Show Spoiler +They baptized you, then carried you to the garden for you to wake up. Nothing fishy as far as I can tell.
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On March 30 2013 20:16 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 20:13 Kahzaar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Any clues about what happened when you first entered Columbia, when you were baptized / almost drowned and suddenly woke up in a fountain without any door behind you? + Show Spoiler +They baptized you, then carried you to the garden for you to wake up. Nothing fishy as far as I can tell.
Yeah, I might be reading too much into it
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Here some thought i've put into after finis the game :
+ Show Spoiler +For me it really felt like the game is a better version of the movie The Butterfly Effect
When you think of it, there is so much in common bewteen those two. The bleeding, the outcome of changing a decision or an act on different universe. And yet Bioshock manage to get a happy ending with the cutscene after the credits.
I really like the game and the feeling that the Elizabeth we've play with is dead make me kinda sad (cause yeah if you erase Comstock you also erase the Elizabeth from Colombia). And now we've got all the clues to udnerstand the franchise, i guess we won't have any other game which take place in a "Bioshock universe". That makes me sad too :/
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On March 30 2013 10:47 Warri wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 09:36 Excludos wrote:On March 30 2013 09:15 Firebolt145 wrote:On March 30 2013 09:14 Skullflower wrote:On March 30 2013 09:03 FliedLice wrote:On March 30 2013 06:18 Firebolt145 wrote:On March 30 2013 06:16 Mondeezy wrote:Hey guys, I'm on Bioshock 1 currently looking to start Infinite right after. I have a quick question for those who have finished the first one - does the game get any less 'dark' as I move on, or am I going to be stuck in this underwater hellhole for the rest of the game? If you could PM me the answer so that I can avoid spoilers, I'd really appreciate it  Also, is Infinite less jumpy? I hate being freaked the fuck out at 1AM and jumping out of my chair when someone pops around the corner, lmao. First two games stay in that environment for the whole game. Infinite is based in a completely different setting which is much brighter and last darker and ominous. There are still a few 'jump' moments in Infinite but they are few and far in between. But one of them nearly gave me a heart attack. At 5am in the morning. + Show Spoiler +When that weird watcher thing suddenly stands right behind you in that asylum near the end of the game. Holy crap that thing scared the fuck out of me Hey that totally happened to me too. Same time and everything. I went to sleep after that t_t That also made me jump up and start shouting curse words lol, must've woken up my flatmate. Ditto. Nearly made me crap my pants. I sucked at the sneaking part earlier, so I barely had any ammo at that point. When he showed up I immediately unloaded the remaining ammo of my rifle before I realized "oh..he's gone..". Haha same. I didnt realize that you could not trigger them and ran out of ammo and salt and had to melee/run/melee the first wave of them. + Show Spoiler +
are you fucking kidding me? i played on hard and the whole thing without any ammo. i went full melee mode and barely made it. i triggered every one of them. holy shit i'm bad. :D
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EPT
