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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
On January 19 2011 16:23 GTR wrote: http://www.nfl.com/videos/oakland-raiders/09000d5d81dc62b7/Al-Davis-on-state-of-the-Raiders poor guy looked like he just got out of his death bed jesus christ.... any takers to see if al davis dies of natural causes b4 or after he resigns? | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32106 Posts
On January 19 2011 09:01 FireBearHero wrote: I actually think that last throw was an ok decision but was poorly thrown. I think if Vick delivers a well place fade deep into the end zone (high and to the outside) it is a touchdown. Instead he let goes a flat under throw that is intercepted. Searching for a video with a good angle to show what I'm talking about I stumbled on this: http://www.nfl.com/videos/philadelphia-eagles/09000d5d81da2afa/Playbook-Packers-vs-Eagles-recap They basically say the same things that I wanted to say about it so I will just let the video take it from there. They start talking about that particular play about 1:20 into the video. While it is starting to get up there in distance at 27 yards, I think this play does a good job illustrating Vick's mid range accuracy issues. I think taking a shot at the endzone with the time and score the way it was is fine. However, that was a poor decision not only because he missed it badly, but because it was such a small window to begin with that he probably should have just tossed it away intentionally over the guy's head. Like in a 2nd quarter situation, fine, you take the shot. Or if he had more separation rip it in there. But with the game on the line in a no margin for error spot, that kind of coverage and plenty of time to spare, that's a dumb ball to throw because there's a high risk of pick on it for anyone, especially someone like Vick who isn't so accurate. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On January 19 2011 23:48 sung_moon wrote: jesus christ.... any takers to see if al davis dies of natural causes b4 or after he resigns? I'm pretty sure thats guaranteed to happen. | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On January 19 2011 23:57 Hawk wrote: I think taking a shot at the endzone with the time and score the way it was is fine. However, that was a poor decision not only because he missed it badly, but because it was such a small window to begin with that he probably should have just tossed it away intentionally over the guy's head. Like in a 2nd quarter situation, fine, you take the shot. Or if he had more separation rip it in there. But with the game on the line in a no margin for error spot, that kind of coverage and plenty of time to spare, that's a dumb ball to throw because there's a high risk of pick on it for anyone, especially someone like Vick who isn't so accurate. Yeah, pretty much identical to what I thought about the throw. It was a bad throw, and I think throwing it away was a better idea, since you'd get a few more tries if you missed. But, if you throw the pick, like he did, it's over. It's kind of gross to look at Davis now. He's so dumb, talking about how Campbell is coming along well. I like to see any AFC West team in the trash, except Denver, but it's still irritating to listen to this idiot. Then he said that Jim Plunkett did as much as John Elway had done, and he's talking about Favre's greatness. Fuck... Campbell doesn't belong within five sentences of those guys, unless you're saying "Campbell will never be as good as X player." WTF. He is so fucking stupid. He says that Campbell is better than "Kim" Newton. I couldn't listen to the whole thing. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32106 Posts
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On January 20 2011 01:51 Hawk wrote: I honestly don't know what to make of Cam though. He runs like a college back, but he's much more polished in terms of mechanics than any scrambling QB that came out recently. They don't run a particularly deep offense though, it seems. He's as confusing as Colt McCoy/Crabtree were coming out of college. They put up nice numbers, had some flashes, but their offense really messed up evaluation of them as players. I feel like Cam's got the same issue, where he looks like he has the tools, but his offense makes it impossible (re: masks) to discern his decision-making and his overall accuracy ;/ | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On January 20 2011 01:55 Southlight wrote: He's as confusing as Colt McCoy/Crabtree were coming out of college. They put up nice numbers, had some flashes, but their offense really messed up evaluation of them as players. I feel like Cam's got the same issue, where he looks like he has the tools, but his offense makes it impossible (re: masks) to discern his decision-making and his overall accuracy ;/ Those guys are still confusing. McCoy had a few nice games this season, and he has a... "grit" about him and the way he plays. It's really interesting. He's not the most physically gifted guy ever, but there's something about him that says he might find some moderate success at the NFL level. I don't think he'll ever rise to be an all-star QB, however. Crabtree has potential to be an excellent WR still. He was set back by holding out for so long, and set further back by not having a QB that can deliver the ball to him accurately, and regularly. One could try to blame Crabtree for not getting open, but we know that VD is one of the most talented TE's in the league, and his numbers were also inconsistent, due to poor QB play, so I don't think it would be fair to harshly judge Crabtree as of yet. (Note: I'm not saying you are judging either player harshly.) I'm excited to see what next year holds for McCoy, to see if an off season of studying at the pro level brings up his game. I'm sure he'll work with coaches, etc, to improve every aspect of his game during the off season; he seems like a very hard working individual. It's the same thing that gives people hope for Tebow, really, except that McCoy is a better passer than Tebow. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ann_killion/01/18/aaron-rodgers/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_sports Interesting article about Rodgers vs Smith and how we'll never know if, had the two swapped places, we'd be singing praise about Smith instead. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On January 20 2011 02:21 Southlight wrote: Yea, I agree they're both STILL confusing, and to an extent I kinda think that's how it'll be for Cam Newton as well for a couple seasons. It's just really hard to pass judgement on him one way or another because that system showed so little of him. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ann_killion/01/18/aaron-rodgers/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_sports Interesting article about Rodgers vs Smith and how we'll never know if, had the two swapped places, we'd be singing praise about Smith instead. I think a lot of people have brought up that discussion before. Rodgers is clearly the better QB, but would he have faired as well given the circumstances that Smith had? It's unlikely anyone would have succeeded there. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
Do you think he and other QBs like him in similar situations would have been better if they would have been drafted by a good team that was stable? Would a guy like Joey Harington been better if he wasn't thrown into the mess that was Detroit? Conversely would a guy like Brady/Manning/etc developed into a poorer player because they went to a horrible/unstable team? Basically im asking how much the state of the team affects a QB. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
On January 20 2011 04:05 Slaughter wrote: Here is an interesting question since your talking about campbell. Do you think he and other QBs like him in similar situations would have been better if they would have been drafted by a good team that was stable? Would a guy like Joey Harington been better if he wasn't thrown into the mess that was Detroit? Conversely would a guy like Brady/Manning/etc developed into a poorer player because they went to a horrible/unstable team? Basically im asking how much the state of the team affects a QB. Didn't Manning go to a 2-14 team? >.> | ||
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PJFrylar
United States350 Posts
I'm not sure that happens to that magnitude if Rodgers is thrown directly into the fire in SF like Smith was. He is more than likely forced to spend more time at the gym, but probably doesn't get the same results if he is busy with starter responsibilities. Add all the things that were working against Smith in SF like a different OC basically every year, and Rodgers probably struggles too. Ultimately he might have been more successful that Smith was in SF, but I don't see him turning out as good as he has in GB. On the other side of the coin I think Smith does pretty well in Rodger's shoes in GB. Maybe not quite as well, maybe just as well - kind of hard to say. I think he would have ended up at least a solid QB though. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32106 Posts
Which brings me to my next point: How the fuck did this moron get hyped over Rodgers coming out???? It was a pro system QB vs a gimmicky spread offense QB. That, plus the home grown bit, I have no idea why the hell Smith got drafted. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On January 20 2011 04:24 Hawk wrote: Which brings me to my next point: How the fuck did this moron get hyped over Rodgers coming out???? It was a pro system QB vs a gimmicky spread offense QB. That, plus the home grown bit, I have no idea why the hell Smith got drafted. I think most people were genuinely surprised that Rodgers got passed over for Smith even up until the announcement, to be honest. I'd hazard a guess that 80-90% of people felt Rodgers was the better QB until the better end. So to that end I think the question you pose is akin to DHB being picked over Crabtree. | ||
Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On January 20 2011 04:24 Hawk wrote: The people who think that Alex Smith would come even close to the success that Rodgers has had in GB are absolutely out of their fucking minds, or have never seen Smith play much. While he's had the misfortune of landing on a terribly managed team with a new OC almost every year, he still lacks tons of essentials: Good decision making, good arm strength or accuracy, a spine and balls. The only thing he really does well is make shit happen on the run. Which brings me to my next point: How the fuck did this moron get hyped over Rodgers coming out???? It was a pro system QB vs a gimmicky spread offense QB. That, plus the home grown bit, I have no idea why the hell Smith got drafted. But if Alex Smith wasn't thrown into the fire and was under the tutelage of Brett Favre, the possibility would have been there is what we're saying. Just a possibility that the world will never know. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On January 20 2011 04:28 Souma wrote: But if Alex Smith wasn't thrown into the fire and was under the tutelage of Brett Favre, the possibility would have been there is what we're saying. Just a possibility that the world will never know. Wasn't the relationship between Rodgers and Favre testy? I don't know that he was "tutored" by Favre. | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On January 20 2011 04:24 Hawk wrote: The people who think that Alex Smith would come even close to the success that Rodgers has had in GB are absolutely out of their fucking minds, or have never seen Smith play much. While he's had the misfortune of landing on a terribly managed team with a new OC almost every year, he still lacks tons of essentials: Good decision making, good arm strength or accuracy, a spine and balls. The only thing he really does well is make shit happen on the run. Which brings me to my next point: How the fuck did this moron get hyped over Rodgers coming out???? It was a pro system QB vs a gimmicky spread offense QB. That, plus the home grown bit, I have no idea why the hell Smith got drafted. I don't think he would have been as good as Rodgers, but Rodgers in SF wouldn't be as good as Rodgers in GB, and I think that's the main point/idea people are driving at. Rodgers is superior in every facet of the game at this point, and probably was at the draft (I don't watch college ball very much, and certainly didn't back then to know these two QB's in college). Who knows what kind of difference the team/coaching made though? On January 20 2011 04:05 Slaughter wrote: Here is an interesting question since your talking about campbell. Do you think he and other QBs like him in similar situations would have been better if they would have been drafted by a good team that was stable? Would a guy like Joey Harington been better if he wasn't thrown into the mess that was Detroit? Conversely would a guy like Brady/Manning/etc developed into a poorer player because they went to a horrible/unstable team? Basically im asking how much the state of the team affects a QB. Harrington? Maybe. He showed flashes of greatness at times, kind of like Smith does now... I don't know how good he could have been. I think it would have taken top tier QB coaching to make him great. Peyton Manning was drafted to a terrible team. They had Faulk and Harrison, though, so that helped. Even so, Manning made that team, the team didn't make Manning. But Manning is a very special exception, not many players like him ever come along. To the idea that Favre tutored Rodgers... ridiculous. Favre even said something along the lines of him being there to play football, not to make sure a younger QB learns how to play the game. In other words, he had no interest in Rodgers learning the game. They don't really play the game the same way, either. You don't see a lot of Favre in Rodgers, imo (i.e. there's no insane miracle throws into triple coverage, though he does shovel pass from time to time, but pretty much all QB's do that now). | ||
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PJFrylar
United States350 Posts
On January 20 2011 04:34 Southlight wrote: Wasn't the relationship between Rodgers and Favre testy? I don't know that he was "tutored" by Favre. It certainly was at first. It warmed up over time, but Favre never was much of a tutor for Rodgers. Most of Rodgers development had to do with himself and coaching staff, but he did of course learn things from Favre indirectly by simply watching him though. I think the hidden winner in all of this is McCarthy. He played a part (I'm not sure exactly how much, but I know Smith was McCarthy's recommendation in SF) in picking Smith over Rodgers. Then got out of the whole mess in SF by becoming coach of the Packers where he gets Rodgers. On January 20 2011 04:37 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: I don't think he would have been as good as Rodgers, but Rodgers in SF wouldn't be as good as Rodgers in GB, and I think that's the main point/idea people are driving at. Rodgers is superior in every facet of the game at this point, and probably was at the draft (I don't watch college ball very much, and certainly didn't back then to know these two QB's in college). Yeah that is pretty much what I was trying to say. I'm not always good at completely conveying myself lol. | ||
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On January 20 2011 04:34 Southlight wrote: Wasn't the relationship between Rodgers and Favre testy? I don't know that he was "tutored" by Favre. When you get the opportunity to watch a guy like Brett Favre on the sidelines for a couple of years, it is an invaluable experience. | ||
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