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On January 20 2011 04:39 FireBearHero wrote:
I think the hidden winner in all of this is McCarthy. He played a part (I'm not sure exactly how much, but I know Smith was McCarthy's recommendation in SF) in picking Smith over Rodgers. Then got out of the whole mess in SF by becoming coach of the Packers where he gets Rodgers.
OMG HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH sorry for no valuable input here but F-ing LOL
On January 20 2011 04:40 Souma wrote:
When you get the opportunity to watch a guy like Brett Favre on the sidelines for a couple of years, it is an invaluable experience.
Yeah, I know, but being on the sideline in general for a season or two is "generally" the way to go anyways. Was just pointing out that Favre didn't feel like a big reason for Rodgers' progression, though I'm sure it didn't hurt being able to see, even from a distance, a good QB's preparation and such.
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On January 20 2011 04:40 Souma wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 04:34 Southlight wrote:On January 20 2011 04:28 Souma wrote:On January 20 2011 04:24 Hawk wrote:
The people who think that Alex Smith would come even close to the success that Rodgers has had in GB are absolutely out of their fucking minds, or have never seen Smith play much. While he's had the misfortune of landing on a terribly managed team with a new OC almost every year, he still lacks tons of essentials: Good decision making, good arm strength or accuracy, a spine and balls. The only thing he really does well is make shit happen on the run.
Which brings me to my next point: How the fuck did this moron get hyped over Rodgers coming out???? It was a pro system QB vs a gimmicky spread offense QB. That, plus the home grown bit, I have no idea why the hell Smith got drafted.
But if Alex Smith wasn't thrown into the fire and was under the tutelage of Brett Favre, the possibility would have been there is what we're saying. Just a possibility that the world will never know. Wasn't the relationship between Rodgers and Favre testy? I don't know that he was "tutored" by Favre. When you get the opportunity to watch a guy like Brett Favre on the sidelines for a couple of years, it is an invaluable experience.
Favre was such a unique style of QB, though. He didn't really do things the "right way," he just did them. So much of Favre's mystique is based on the fact that he made ill-advised throws a lot, but more often than not, they worked out for him. I mean, that MNF game vs Oakland, probably his greatest game ever, for example. There were some very ill-advised throws in that game, but the majority were caught. I think he had like four incomplete passes, 395 yards, and 4 TD's.
It probably helped in his study habits, and attitude toward the game, but I question how much it helped him as a passer, to watch Favre.
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On January 20 2011 04:45 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
It probably helped in his study habits, and attitude toward the game, but I question how much it helped him as a passer, to watch Favre.
That's probably gonna be the biggest blow to the Ravens when Ed Reed and Ray Lewis inevitably retire. They're such standard-bearers in that locker room, for incoming veterans and rookies alike, with preparation and attitude, it's going to be incredibly difficult to keep up that culture 
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On January 20 2011 04:50 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 04:45 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
It probably helped in his study habits, and attitude toward the game, but I question how much it helped him as a passer, to watch Favre. That's probably gonna be the biggest blow to the Ravens when Ed Reed and Ray Lewis inevitably retire. They're such standard-bearers in that locker room, for incoming veterans and rookies alike, with preparation and attitude, it's going to be incredibly difficult to keep up that culture
But that's true for a lot of teams. Pretty much all teams have players in the locker room who are role models for the other players in terms of preparation and attitude. Indy has guys like Manning, Sanders, and Freeny. Chicago has guys like Urlacher and Kreutz. I don't see why the Ravens are exceptional in that respect.
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On January 20 2011 05:03 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 04:50 Southlight wrote:On January 20 2011 04:45 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
It probably helped in his study habits, and attitude toward the game, but I question how much it helped him as a passer, to watch Favre. That's probably gonna be the biggest blow to the Ravens when Ed Reed and Ray Lewis inevitably retire. They're such standard-bearers in that locker room, for incoming veterans and rookies alike, with preparation and attitude, it's going to be incredibly difficult to keep up that culture But that's true for a lot of teams. Pretty much all teams have players in the locker room who are role models for the other players in terms of preparation and attitude. Indy has guys like Manning, Sanders, and Freeny. Chicago has guys like Urlacher and Kreutz. I don't see why the Ravens are exceptional in that respect.
Hey, hey... don't leave out Peppers, Briggs, and Tillman. That team is full of that type of guy.
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On January 20 2011 05:05 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 05:03 Qatol wrote:On January 20 2011 04:50 Southlight wrote:On January 20 2011 04:45 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
It probably helped in his study habits, and attitude toward the game, but I question how much it helped him as a passer, to watch Favre. That's probably gonna be the biggest blow to the Ravens when Ed Reed and Ray Lewis inevitably retire. They're such standard-bearers in that locker room, for incoming veterans and rookies alike, with preparation and attitude, it's going to be incredibly difficult to keep up that culture But that's true for a lot of teams. Pretty much all teams have players in the locker room who are role models for the other players in terms of preparation and attitude. Indy has guys like Manning, Sanders, and Freeny. Chicago has guys like Urlacher and Kreutz. I don't see why the Ravens are exceptional in that respect. Hey, hey... don't leave out Peppers, Briggs, and Tillman. That team is full of that type of guy.
Isn't this Peppers' first year there? I wouldn't exactly call him a guy like Urlacher, who has been the cornerstone of their defense for years and years.
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On January 20 2011 05:05 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 05:03 Qatol wrote:On January 20 2011 04:50 Southlight wrote:On January 20 2011 04:45 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
It probably helped in his study habits, and attitude toward the game, but I question how much it helped him as a passer, to watch Favre. That's probably gonna be the biggest blow to the Ravens when Ed Reed and Ray Lewis inevitably retire. They're such standard-bearers in that locker room, for incoming veterans and rookies alike, with preparation and attitude, it's going to be incredibly difficult to keep up that culture But that's true for a lot of teams. Pretty much all teams have players in the locker room who are role models for the other players in terms of preparation and attitude. Indy has guys like Manning, Sanders, and Freeny. Chicago has guys like Urlacher and Kreutz. I don't see why the Ravens are exceptional in that respect. Hey, hey... don't leave out Peppers, Briggs, and Tillman. That team is full of that type of guy.
I could have included them too, but I felt that Urlacher and Kreutz were the most dramatic examples for getting my point across. I agree that Chicago has been trying to collect that kind of guy for a while now.
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I don't think any of those players (save for maybe Manning, although I don't hear much about Manning pulling in other players to do as much studying as he does) have as much locker-room/franchise presence as Ray Lewis. Over in Baltimore it's like an annual rite where rookies get herded into studying with Ray Lewis (hence Ed Reed, Suggs, Ngata all being video bums). For a while a lot of us felt like Ed Reed (who also has legendary work ethic) would pass on the torch but it's looking increasingly like they're both going to retire at similar times... and unfortunately that's going to leave a GIGANTIC leadership/face of the franchise whole.
Like, Urlacher is a good player, sure, but you don't really hear nearly as much about him taking other defensive players (regardless of position) under his wing, you don't hear rookies crediting him for significant help with their success and acclimation, and that sort of thing. You also don't really hear as much about the Bears being Urlacher's defense, so much as that he's a big part of it. There're more equality for most teams. That's why if you see a Colts vs Bears matchup it's not URLACHER VS MANNING as it is with Baltimore, regardless of how accurate that depiction is (not very).
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The Bears organization, as a whole, is a very tight-lipped organization. Contrastingly, the Ravens are full of loud-mouthed media whores. It's no wonder that you hear about the Ravens players more... they do more talking than the Bears players.
And I have absolutely heard "Manning vs Urlacher." I've also heard "Manning vs the Ravens D." It's always QB v MLB when the MLB is good.
Manning works the shit out of his receivers. If there were ever any questions about that, they were surely answered this season when he had 12th string WR's playing on the field with him, and executing as though they had been with the team for years, rather than days.
On January 20 2011 05:13 Ferrose wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 05:05 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On January 20 2011 05:03 Qatol wrote:On January 20 2011 04:50 Southlight wrote:On January 20 2011 04:45 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
It probably helped in his study habits, and attitude toward the game, but I question how much it helped him as a passer, to watch Favre. That's probably gonna be the biggest blow to the Ravens when Ed Reed and Ray Lewis inevitably retire. They're such standard-bearers in that locker room, for incoming veterans and rookies alike, with preparation and attitude, it's going to be incredibly difficult to keep up that culture But that's true for a lot of teams. Pretty much all teams have players in the locker room who are role models for the other players in terms of preparation and attitude. Indy has guys like Manning, Sanders, and Freeny. Chicago has guys like Urlacher and Kreutz. I don't see why the Ravens are exceptional in that respect. Hey, hey... don't leave out Peppers, Briggs, and Tillman. That team is full of that type of guy. Isn't this Peppers' first year there? I wouldn't exactly call him a guy like Urlacher, who has been the cornerstone of their defense for years and years.
You're right; you wouldn't say that, but that's not what we were talking about.
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On January 20 2011 04:37 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 04:24 Hawk wrote:
The people who think that Alex Smith would come even close to the success that Rodgers has had in GB are absolutely out of their fucking minds, or have never seen Smith play much. While he's had the misfortune of landing on a terribly managed team with a new OC almost every year, he still lacks tons of essentials: Good decision making, good arm strength or accuracy, a spine and balls. The only thing he really does well is make shit happen on the run.
Which brings me to my next point: How the fuck did this moron get hyped over Rodgers coming out???? It was a pro system QB vs a gimmicky spread offense QB. That, plus the home grown bit, I have no idea why the hell Smith got drafted.
I don't think he would have been as good as Rodgers, but Rodgers in SF wouldn't be as good as Rodgers in GB, and I think that's the main point/idea people are driving at. Rodgers is superior in every facet of the game at this point, and probably was at the draft (I don't watch college ball very much, and certainly didn't back then to know these two QB's in college). Who knows what kind of difference the team/coaching made though?
Oh I get what people are saying. I'm saying that Rodgers in SF would be better than Smith in his spot right now, hands down. Smith has a fraction of the raw throwing talent and decision making. His only comparables are his athletic ability and ability to throw on the run.
Playcalling has blown every year besides Turner's one year. It's something new each year, radically different. But the one consistent were Smith's shitty throws. And let's not forget that Gore has pretty much made it so that there's always 8 in the box at all times, so Smith wasn't getting honest coverages most downs—Rodgers, even with Grant healthy, doesn't have that luxury. Yet he still couldn't even make basic 15 yard outs without throwing a duck or staring down his receiver into double coverage.
Play calling was often atrocious, but it's not as if Smith was able to consistently make his throws when his coordinator did call shit right. He only ever looked comfortable in the shotgun
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He works his receivers but not a whole lot of good quarterbacks don't. And I don't really care about tight-lipped or not (my "you hear about" bias is obvious because I'm a Ravens fan, in Maryland). As far as I know the Bears have more of a standard team with a bunch of stars, leaders, and other people. The Ravens as a team revolve extremely heavily, even abnormally, around Ray Lewis, as he's the face of the franchise in so many aspects. Far more than almost any other player (with the possible exception of Manning, mind you, although I kind of doubt it) on any team in the league, Lewis is like the daddy-figure in the locker room. His influence on other players is astonishing, obviously in particular the defense, which is where most of the concerns lie when he retires. When a defensive rookie comes in, it's not a veteran from the same position, a coach, whatever that picks the guy up, it's Lewis. He's the one that always offers a room, lugs them around to videos for extra studying, he's absolutely like a tutor and mentor, but that he gets around to so many players every offseason is why he's Mr. Raven. Yes, he's a great football player but he means SO MUCH to the team it's ridiculous, it's going to be a completely different team.
Take away Urlacher from the Bears (as an example) and I feel like the Bears will still be the Bears, they'll still fall upon their decades of defensive tradition, their pride, and they have a lot of other great defensive players to keep them moving forward. That might end up being the case for the Ravens, but right now there's a big unknown out there.
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On January 20 2011 06:09 Southlight wrote:
He works his receivers but not a whole lot of good quarterbacks don't. And I don't really care about tight-lipped or not (my "you hear about" bias is obvious because I'm a Ravens fan, in Maryland). As far as I know the Bears have more of a standard team with a bunch of stars, leaders, and other people. The Ravens as a team revolve extremely heavily, even abnormally, around Ray Lewis, as he's the face of the franchise in so many aspects. Far more than almost any other player (with the possible exception of Manning, mind you, although I kind of doubt it) on any team in the league, Lewis is like the daddy-figure in the locker room. His influence on other players is astonishing, obviously in particular the defense, which is where most of the concerns lie when he retires. When a defensive rookie comes in, it's not a veteran from the same position, a coach, whatever that picks the guy up, it's Lewis. He's the one that always offers a room, lugs them around to videos for extra studying, he's absolutely like a tutor and mentor, but that he gets around to so many players every offseason is why he's Mr. Raven. Yes, he's a great football player but he means SO MUCH to the team it's ridiculous, it's going to be a completely different team.
Take away Urlacher from the Bears (as an example) and I feel like the Bears will still be the Bears, they'll still fall upon their decades of defensive tradition, their pride, and they have a lot of other great defensive players to keep them moving forward. That might end up being the case for the Ravens, but right now there's a big unknown out there.
I think that comes almost purely from living in the area. Similar are said about Urlacher in Chicago, on Chicago radio. And, to be honest, I had never heard a single word about Ray Lewis doing that with other players.
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Hahah, he gets credited for it a lot by other players (Reed, Suggs and Ngata are the obvious ones, they referred to him doing that in interviews). Might be an area thing, yea.
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On January 20 2011 06:38 Southlight wrote:
Hahah, he gets credited for it a lot by other players (Reed, Suggs and Ngata are the obvious ones, they referred to him doing that in interviews). Might be an area thing, yea.
I absolutely think it is an area thing. I lived in the Chicago area for 4 seasons and the Baltimore area for 2, and really the story is pretty much the same. I heard more about Kreutz taking people under his wing than Urlacher (which was why I mentioned him) but the basic story is the same.
However, I don't think it necessarily happens with EVERY team. I don't hear that much about that kind of thing with the Redskins, for example. Their stories are all about how Haynesworth is too fat to participate in training camp and the like. 
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Hey, hey, with the Skins the team was united in bashing him. That's one way of leading, right? Right?
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On January 20 2011 06:56 Southlight wrote:
Hey, hey, with the Skins the team was united in bashing him. That's one way of leading, right? Right?
It sets an example for the other players, in a roundabout way.
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A ponytail on a man says "don't fuck with me," while pigtails say "hold these while you fuck me." It's a subtle difference, but it's there.
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On January 20 2011 07:26 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:A ponytail on a man says "don't fuck with me," while pigtails say "hold these while you fuck me." It's a subtle difference, but it's there.
He has like, three braided pigtails. All I can do is laugh.
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Oh what a cute little girl why did she get arrest....
Wait, that's the bastard that got me 1 point per game in fantasy!!!
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EPT
