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On January 19 2011 06:47 Shindou wrote:
Eagles are a west coast style offense, those plays aren't designed check downs at all. They call more screens than most teams but definitely not the most in the entire league. Really what do you want to look at to evaluate his mid-range pass game this season other than "Vick can't do it" "Yes he can" ? He averaged .2 yds less than rodgers. .2 more than brady. But that's prob inflated from deep balls. I was literally at every game, but apparently everyone who might have watched a handful of nationally televised games can tell me more than I know about it.
I will say that you have undoubtedly seen more Eagles games than me, but I find it hard to believe that there's a team that has run more screens than they have. I wish this was a stat kept somewhere, because I'm pretty interested to see the numbers on that.
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I wish there was too aside from going through play by play. It's a big part of every teams gameplan - Pats Ravens Jets Cowboys Giants Vikings are all teams that come to mind running a lot of screens.
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On January 19 2011 06:47 Shindou wrote:
Yes he can" ? He averaged .2 yds less than rodgers. .2 more than brady. But that's prob inflated from deep balls. I was literally at every game, but apparently everyone who might have watched a handful of nationally televised games can tell me more than I know about it.
Not just deep balls. Jackson turned roughly 123121 5 yard dunks into 30 yard gains. Maclin and McCoy ain't too shabby at it either.
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On January 19 2011 06:05 Shindou wrote:
I read what you said. Largely same QB. LONG way to go. SOME improvement, but you're wrong. Even every NFL analyst has said Vick has become a solid pocket passer, a hundred times better than what he was in Atlanta. The majority of vicks passes haven't been screens... I have no idea where you got that from. They're a west coast offense with a lot of short throws, some quick screens, and big plays mixed in. If Vick does dump the ball out in the flat or to mccoy on a RB option its bc nobody's downfield.
The eagles offensive line is horrible. It has nothing to do with him not being able to read coverage or blitz packages. I know you're talking about the Vikings game where Winfield came off a corner blitz a few times, but some of that falls on the offensive line and Celek. Celek botching it on a pass route and one time he just didn't get outside in enough time. There would be two o-linemen attempting to block Allen while the Winfield went around, even though Allen was running through double teams. Vick might have missed the db blitz the first time it came - but it largely falls on the o-line and Celek really isn't a blocking TE to begin with. That game he did play bad compared to the rest of the year - threw some bad balls and had a pick i think he fumbled too but he played the entire game with a quad contusion throwing for 250+ and running for something like 80 yds. It's really amazing he did that well.
Saying he's making bad decisions and all this stuff ala Cutler and really doesn't know how to read this or that and yadda yadda - you really have no basis for it. He threw six picks in 12 games, on pace to throw eight the entire year. His pass % went up something like 6-9% and still ran for a ton. Brought the eagles to 2 missed field goals from a divisional playoff shot (not to mention celek's missed 2pter) and still had them in the game at the end.
And then he threw a pick to end the game, off balance, on a bad decision (i.e. you don't chuck it into the back of the end zone on a prayer when you have 30 seconds, and I think they had a time out left too, against a guy that is fairly tall for a CB, and can jump really high). It's EXACTLY what he did all season long, except that he didn't luck out this time.
You didn't read what I said the first time, because this was your response "Vick is totally the same QB he always was in ATL." That's not what I said at all.
On January 19 2011 06:47 Shindou wrote:
Eagles are a west coast style offense, those plays aren't designed check downs at all. They call more screens than most teams but definitely not the most in the entire league. Really what do you want to look at to evaluate his mid-range pass game this season other than "Vick can't do it" "Yes he can" ? He averaged .2 yds less than rodgers. .2 more than brady. But that's prob inflated from deep balls. I was literally at every game, but apparently everyone who might have watched a handful of nationally televised games can tell me more than I know about it.
Really? You traveled for all the road games too? (That's impressive dedication if you actually meant all, and not just home games.) I watched over half of the Eagle's games this year (streamed on the internet), because I was absolutely obsessed with how Vick was getting points for me this season. I absolutely watched a lot of what he did. There's no stat that can prove what we're saying, though, so you can ask for one all you'd like, but there's nothing anyone can do except watch the games.
Along with Hawk's point on YAC yardage, here are the main WR's stats: Maclin 267 (64th in the NFL) DJack: 354 (32nd in the NFL), McCoy 738 (1st in the NFL). That accounts for nearly 50% of his yardage this season. Granted, that doesn't make him a bad QB, because I'm sure guys like Rodgers have ridiculous amounts of YAC yardage added to their stats (I remember a couple years ago, the Packers led the league in YAC yardage).
Again, Vick has improved, but he doesn't deserve mention alongside names like Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers (who I think is #5 right now), and a couple others I'm probably leaving out, as a pocket passer. Vick is a moderate pocket passer, a good long ball thrower, and the best scrambler/runner (as a QB) the league has ever seen. He doesn't have the same passing tools that those other guys do, though.
The stats for screens run exist, it's just a pain in the ass to find them. Elias tracks everything, but they don't appear to make it public, for some reason. That's how they get those insane stats like "he is the second player to score two TD's while having the flu."
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I went to 13 total Wash CHI SF ATL NYG and Dallas outside of home games. But I'm pretty tired of going back and forth. Vick rules. Go birds.
Edit - confused the GB game with CHI
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Wow, that is impressive dedication, indeed.
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Did you go to any preseason games?
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All the home games and Cincinatti. I usually skip out on the road games in preseason bc they're never worth the planeride but seeing TO in a bengals jersey was a must. Southwest airlines ftw
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On January 19 2011 07:57 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
And then he threw a pick to end the game, off balance, on a bad decision (i.e. you don't chuck it into the back of the end zone on a prayer when you have 30 seconds, and I think they had a time out left too, against a guy that is fairly tall for a CB, and can jump really high). It's EXACTLY what he did all season long, except that he didn't luck out this time.
I actually think that last throw was an ok decision but was poorly thrown. I think if Vick delivers a well place fade deep into the end zone (high and to the outside) it is a touchdown. Instead he let goes a flat under throw that is intercepted.
Searching for a video with a good angle to show what I'm talking about I stumbled on this: http://www.nfl.com/videos/philadelphia-eagles/09000d5d81da2afa/Playbook-Packers-vs-Eagles-recap
They basically say the same things that I wanted to say about it so I will just let the video take it from there. They start talking about that particular play about 1:20 into the video. While it is starting to get up there in distance at 27 yards, I think this play does a good job illustrating Vick's mid range accuracy issues.
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If he throws to anyone except riley cooper I'm ok with the decision
But throwing to your #4 receiver on the most important play of the year is something I will never accept
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On January 19 2011 09:07 KOFgokuon wrote:
If he throws to anyone except riley cooper I'm ok with the decision
But throwing to your #4 receiver on the most important play of the year is something I will never accept
I can understand that, but if he made the throw I don't think anyone would be caring about that lol.
Edit: Guess I'll expound on that. I (Packers fan) would question the decision if Rodgers in the same situation throws an INT intended for say Tom Crabtree (primarily used as a blocking tight end). However, I think the result effects how people perceive such decisions. OMG he threw a game winner to a lesser used player, defense sure didn't expect that! So it looks like an awesome play when it works, but that if it backfires it looks boneheaded. Same thing with like going for it on 4th down or fake punts/FGs; they make you look smart when they work but dumb when they don't.
That said unlike the guy in the video I think throwing to Maclin would have been good. I don't think the safety gets over in time, maybe he makes him miss. Either way I believe they still had a timeout, and it would have been put them in a good position to take a couple throws at the endzone from there.
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I don't think the play itself was that outrageous at all. He's execution was the problem, mainly because he is not a top tier passer.
Cooper was way bigger than his defender, and a well placed ball would either be caught by him or at worst incomplete. Instead he threw a terrible line drive.
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Just to clarify the eagles didn't have a timeout and there was ~40-30 seconds left in the game with the clock winding. They should have just spiked the ball.
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On January 19 2011 11:00 Shindou wrote:
Just to clarify the eagles didn't have a timeout and there was ~40-30 seconds left in the game with the clock winding. They should have just spiked the ball.
Oh, I guess I remembered that part about the timeout incorrectly. That would definitely have made Maclin a less attractive target on that play. Spiking was definitely the safest choice, but at the same time I don't blame Vick for the decision not too (if he had been relayed to do so from the sideline you would think he would have). That of course is assuming that he wouldn't have just ignored them, and he was getting the play call instead.
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Josh McDaniels is our offensive coordinator!! Can I say PLAYOFF BOUND?!?!?! :D
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I can't blame him either. The drive altogether wasn't good. They killed a lot of the clock and everything seemed rushed, nobody was open the whole drive except for the djax completion. I felt like he made that throw bc Vick felt like he had to. I guess he did - there really wouldn't have been much better looks, but Cooper only played in a handful of games before that. If he caught it you're right - nobody would be complaining. It was a shitty play call to begin with though.
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On January 19 2011 11:40 yrba1 wrote:
Josh McDaniels is our offensive coordinator!! Can I say PLAYOFF BOUND?!?!?! :D
The only place McDaniels is bound is the rafters; during his opponents practices.
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On January 19 2011 11:40 yrba1 wrote:
Josh McDaniels is our offensive coordinator!! Can I say PLAYOFF BOUND?!?!?! :D
In related news, Mike Singletary is now the Vikings linebackers coach.
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51514 Posts
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Wouldn't be surprised at all if he did. This guy needs to give it up. Hes so senile he doesnt even realize hes running a franchise into the ground.
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EPT
