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On December 08 2013 13:36 Black Gun wrote:
i dont actually like it when legendaries or rws are dominating every slot. top end rares should at least be competitive with top end legends on some few slots...
i personally also dont actually like having stats and skills spent permanently. however, the current state of d2 is perfect in that regard: you can do up to 3 respecs for free, after that you can do as many as you want but have to farm up or pay for some ingredients each time, so that messing around with skills/stats is possible, but not too easy.
being able to allocate stats by oneself will actually have a little return by paragon 2.0
one of the main features in which d2 and d3 differ, but which isnt talked about a lot, is the divide between melee and casters. in d2, melee chars took their damage off their weapon dps, much like it currently is in d3. casters, on the other hand, increased their damage by +skill items and fcr. they didnt have to care about the dam on the weapons, melee chars didnt have to care too much about +skills or fcr on their items. thus, building a melee and a caster char felt completely different and the items these two classes of chars required didnt overlap as much as in d3. (ofc melee in d2 was underpowered for pvm because of a lack of good aoe spells, but that could easily be fixed.)
another thing that really differs between d2 and d3 is the general game speed. in d2, chars walk, run, attack, cast and teleport much quicker than in d3. and there are not 1001 skills with cooldowns. even though d2 is so extremely old and clunky, the gameplay still feels much more satisfactory... which actually is really really apprehensive if you think about it.
Making char DMG based on weapons for all chars was actually one of few good moves in D3... D2 was always extremely imbalanced in this caster vs figher area, as it went so far that many builds were totally unplayable first few weeks after reset until good items were available (esp. bowazon and so) - most definitelly not just bcs of lack of AoE, but in overall dmg. It does feel kinda stupid that sword helps you cast arcane orbs better, but balance wise it was no doubt by far best thing to do.
The fact that all chars and all builds are being build exactly same way is IMHO not result of this, but much more of total failure in D3 itemization. I doubt anyone would have single reason to complain about this if they would make DPS weapon based for casters but at the same time kept D2 level of itemization in game.
About rares... I actually thing that everything that drops should have its use, otherwise it should not be in game. The more diversity, the better. So not just rares, but also blue magic and white items (via RWs or something) should be able to compete with legendaries, just like it was in D2.
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On December 09 2013 18:56 Sek-Kuar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 13:36 Black Gun wrote:
i dont actually like it when legendaries or rws are dominating every slot. top end rares should at least be competitive with top end legends on some few slots...
i personally also dont actually like having stats and skills spent permanently. however, the current state of d2 is perfect in that regard: you can do up to 3 respecs for free, after that you can do as many as you want but have to farm up or pay for some ingredients each time, so that messing around with skills/stats is possible, but not too easy.
being able to allocate stats by oneself will actually have a little return by paragon 2.0
one of the main features in which d2 and d3 differ, but which isnt talked about a lot, is the divide between melee and casters. in d2, melee chars took their damage off their weapon dps, much like it currently is in d3. casters, on the other hand, increased their damage by +skill items and fcr. they didnt have to care about the dam on the weapons, melee chars didnt have to care too much about +skills or fcr on their items. thus, building a melee and a caster char felt completely different and the items these two classes of chars required didnt overlap as much as in d3. (ofc melee in d2 was underpowered for pvm because of a lack of good aoe spells, but that could easily be fixed.)
another thing that really differs between d2 and d3 is the general game speed. in d2, chars walk, run, attack, cast and teleport much quicker than in d3. and there are not 1001 skills with cooldowns. even though d2 is so extremely old and clunky, the gameplay still feels much more satisfactory... which actually is really really apprehensive if you think about it.
ofc melees were more item dependent than casters and underpowered in endgame pvm in d2. but this could easily be fixed by more aoe melee skills and potentially some number tweaking on melee char weapons. and i dont see how you want to create a caster vs melee divide in the itemization when both classes depend on their weapon dps.. Making char DMG based on weapons for all chars was actually one of few good moves in D3... D2 was always extremely imbalanced in this caster vs figher area, as it went so far that many builds were totally unplayable first few weeks after reset until good items were available (esp. bowazon and so) - most definitelly not just bcs of lack of AoE, but in overall dmg. It does feel kinda stupid that sword helps you cast arcane orbs better, but balance wise it was no doubt by far best thing to do. The fact that all chars and all builds are being build exactly same way is IMHO not result of this, but much more of total failure in D3 itemization. I doubt anyone would have single reason to complain about this if they would make DPS weapon based for casters but at the same time kept D2 level of itemization in game. About rares... I actually thing that everything that drops should have its use, otherwise it should not be in game. The more diversity, the better. So not just rares, but also blue magic and white items (via RWs or something) should be able to compete with legendaries, just like it was in D2.
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How it should be:
Rare items -> raw power (numbers)
Legendaries -> gamebreaking effects
This way there is a legitimate competition in each slot.
How it is in RoS: legendaries with 900str 900vit and 100ar. 'Nuff said.
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On December 09 2013 21:10 Big G wrote:
How it should be:
Rare items -> raw power (numbers)
Legendaries -> gamebreaking effects
This way there is a legitimate competition in each slot.
How it is in RoS: legendaries with 900str 900vit and 100ar. 'Nuff said.
vouch.
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On December 09 2013 19:26 Black Gun wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 18:56 Sek-Kuar wrote:On December 08 2013 13:36 Black Gun wrote:
i dont actually like it when legendaries or rws are dominating every slot. top end rares should at least be competitive with top end legends on some few slots...
i personally also dont actually like having stats and skills spent permanently. however, the current state of d2 is perfect in that regard: you can do up to 3 respecs for free, after that you can do as many as you want but have to farm up or pay for some ingredients each time, so that messing around with skills/stats is possible, but not too easy.
being able to allocate stats by oneself will actually have a little return by paragon 2.0
one of the main features in which d2 and d3 differ, but which isnt talked about a lot, is the divide between melee and casters. in d2, melee chars took their damage off their weapon dps, much like it currently is in d3. casters, on the other hand, increased their damage by +skill items and fcr. they didnt have to care about the dam on the weapons, melee chars didnt have to care too much about +skills or fcr on their items. thus, building a melee and a caster char felt completely different and the items these two classes of chars required didnt overlap as much as in d3. (ofc melee in d2 was underpowered for pvm because of a lack of good aoe spells, but that could easily be fixed.)
another thing that really differs between d2 and d3 is the general game speed. in d2, chars walk, run, attack, cast and teleport much quicker than in d3. and there are not 1001 skills with cooldowns. even though d2 is so extremely old and clunky, the gameplay still feels much more satisfactory... which actually is really really apprehensive if you think about it.
Making char DMG based on weapons for all chars was actually one of few good moves in D3... D2 was always extremely imbalanced in this caster vs figher area, as it went so far that many builds were totally unplayable first few weeks after reset until good items were available (esp. bowazon and so) - most definitelly not just bcs of lack of AoE, but in overall dmg. It does feel kinda stupid that sword helps you cast arcane orbs better, but balance wise it was no doubt by far best thing to do. The fact that all chars and all builds are being build exactly same way is IMHO not result of this, but much more of total failure in D3 itemization. I doubt anyone would have single reason to complain about this if they would make DPS weapon based for casters but at the same time kept D2 level of itemization in game. About rares... I actually thing that everything that drops should have its use, otherwise it should not be in game. The more diversity, the better. So not just rares, but also blue magic and white items (via RWs or something) should be able to compete with legendaries, just like it was in D2. ofc melees were more item dependent than casters and underpowered in endgame pvm in d2. but this could easily be fixed by more aoe melee skills and potentially some number tweaking on melee char weapons. and i dont see how you want to create a caster vs melee divide in the itemization when both classes depend on their weapon dps..
The same way it was in D2 ^^
While casters were gaining DMG from +skills, not every caster went for max +skills. There were max block builds (ie. sacrificing spirit shield, SoJ rings), low/mid/max faster cast (some used +3 skill magic amu, others used +2 skill 5affix rare amu, others used crafted 2 skill 15fcr 2affix amus or unique maras kaledioscope... similar with rare or crafted vs unique rings). Same way you could see unique, rare, runeword or even magic weapons, helms etc etc.
D2 had huge item diversity between chars and builds thanks to well designed itemization, not because of casters not benefiting from weapon dmg. Not to mention that combat-based chars had some pretty sick AoE skills (multiple shot, lightning fury etc.) you just needed insane gear to reach same level as random sorceress that could get to 20k dmg week after reset easy.
But D3 made magic items totally useless, removed "crafted" as item type, removed runewords and is left with only rare and legendary - at each time one being vastly superior to others. D2 item types were balanced and all (magic, rare, crafted, set, unique, runeword) were useful for certain builds - thats why build and char diversity existed. But in D3 is only legendary to each slot, and mostly exactly 1 legendary to that slot regardless of your build or even char... And thats why D3 item & char diversity is nonexisting.
Weapon is just 1 slot... it has very little if any negative effect in terms of char diversity, but huge possitive effect balance wise.
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You know there was another item type they removed from D3 during beta. Remember when runes were actually things you had to find to modify your skills ( I believe during Alpha or F&F Beta )?
It struck me watching Archon's Pet-based Witch Doctor video that that's what the new legendaries are. They're bringing back the spirit of runes being drops that modify your skills.
You would think that would nicely segment the design space for Rares and Legendaries the way Big G described, but who knows, mabye the gamebreaking effects of legendaries are so good (or their so rare) that it's unnecessary to reserve 'good stats' for rares.
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On December 11 2013 08:37 Wuster wrote:
You know there was another item type they removed from D3 during beta. Remember when runes were actually things you had to find to modify your skills ( I believe during Alpha or F&F Beta )?
It struck me watching Archon's Pet-based Witch Doctor video that that's what the new legendaries are. They're bringing back the spirit of runes being drops that modify your skills.
You would think that would nicely segment the design space for Rares and Legendaries the way Big G described, but who knows, mabye the gamebreaking effects of legendaries are so good (or their so rare) that it's unnecessary to reserve 'good stats' for rares.
well, ideally, you would have to mix both. so if you go all legendaries, you get tons of cool effects, but the raw power behind your attacks and your toughness are lacking.
maybe they can get it right, but i doubt it.
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Right, that would be ideal, but they seem to be balancing the rate you get Legendaries to be low enough that you're using a bunch of Rares to fill out the 'good stats' portion of things by default (Beta drop rates are inflated to test things I believe).
I'm not sure I agree with that philosophy, but it does give characters a certain 'end-goal' when it comes to gearing. How long will it take to get there though? That's the trick and the balance they'll have to get right, which seems like a needless risk to take rather than making the choices always be between Legendary effects or Rare power. At least if I'm understanding the RoS gearing / itemization philosophy.
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Good news everyone! Closed Beta and PTR is up! So you either got invited to the RoS Beta or can test Loot 2.0 and all that shit on the Vanilla 2.0.1 PTR.
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PTR beta just went down? Got kicked off and getting an error saying service is down Code 33
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Is there a way to avoid the huge install for the PTR? Can they just use tha same files or smth.
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Tried a frozen orb wizard build. Felt really good. No reason for me to keep playing though, waiting for live!
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On December 14 2013 07:02 Najda wrote:
Is there a way to avoid the huge install for the PTR? Can they just use tha same files or smth.
I don't think so, but you can already play after downloading about 10% of the game.
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Just started to play again. I don't know why but I got really interested in the game after not playing it since launch. I think it is pretty fun, not the best game because Diablo 2 was amazing. I am excited for RoS but I feel like blizzard is not hyping up RoS that much at all. IT seems too me they are more excited about hearthstone. Which is cool, but I don't really enjoy hearthstone myself and it doesn't seem like a major title, just something to make them a quick buck with people who get addicted to card games.
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It could be lowering expectations after the massive, unreasonable hype that was around Diablo 3. Or it could be new title versus expansion hype.
RoS looks pretty good to me. Having more monsters and more encounters is what I thought the point of D3's original - explore the world not farm fixed bosses philosophy was supposed to achieve. Jar of Souls was the best event in the game IMO, kind of sad that by Act 4 there really aren't any events worth doing. But I did notice something similar being introduced to RoS.
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Yeah. Like there are good things about the game. The events make it interesting and feel more alive. Act 4...was very short it was kinda cool. I was honestly hoping for one more act prior to going to bastion keep. I think 5 acts would have been really solid. I have been kinda thinking blizzard has made shorter games. Like HOTS was insanely short.....And lets be honest the story was "well its warcraft 3 all over again." Blizzard has gone down hill a lot. I still like them, but they aren't that top company anymore...at least to me.
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New Diablo patch is huge. I have to admit it makes the game quite enjoyable. I think the patch is a 9/10. I especially like the smart loot thing, I like killing things and getting Wizard gear and not Demon hunter gear.
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On February 26 2014 14:31 HeeroFX wrote:
New Diablo patch is huge. I have to admit it makes the game quite enjoyable. I think the patch is a 9/10. I especially like the smart loot thing, I like killing things and getting Wizard gear and not Demon hunter gear.
Yeah I like it too. Haven't pre-ordered RoS yet so I don't have access to a lot of the content, and my gear is still fairly good, so I wasn't able to find an upgrade in the hour I spent playing. Might get around to picking it up in a few days time. Coming in with 81 paragon levels though, I pretty much prioritized MS>cap, then pure damage on my paragon stuff(only did torment 1, and experimented with the reset quest progress thing).
Monk feels really different now that FoT doesn't attack so fast any more though, although putting the TP onto FoT itself was a pretty good move.
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EPT
