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On September 08 2010 04:57 Pakje wrote:
What do you guys think about flat armor seals on warwick?
I like them on all junglers. WW is already hax enough at the jungle that I think they're especially good because they let you more safely open Long Sword over cloth armor for a faster jungle. This is mostly theorycrafting because I don't really play WW, but they should be good as ever on him.
On September 08 2010 05:00 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 04:54 rkarhu wrote:
The problem I have with Nasus is that when farming, I just use SF which usually means i get the whole wave without leveling my Qs damage (by getting lasthits). How do you solve this? Just forego SF farming and lasthit every wave using Q? I skill nasus QEEWEREWEQRQQQWRWW. Don't get over lvl 2 Soulfire until the very end. It will leave caster minions with a sliver of health.
don't listen to this, please.
Spirit Fire is your best non-ult ability on Nasus, power level it and just accept that you're usually just getting 1 or 2 Q lasthits per creepwave with Nasus. Powering those Q lasthits is like a fun little minigame but it's really really far from vital and chances are that you're probably wasting time if you're prancing around waiting for Q cooldowns to power it up.
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8748 Posts
On September 08 2010 05:12 Mogwai wrote:
So I've started thinking pretty hard about what to do post-kill on solo lanes before first bluepill. Last night I was up again Dubu's Kass mid with Panth. I scored a hard fought kill fairly early (level 4ish, first blood) and I just did my standard freefarming post-kill. Dubu teleports back to the lane and since I'm exhausted on HP Pots and up agaist a Kass with boots, d-ring, and 2 hp pots as just boots on Panth, I stick around, but just play really passively. Long story short, I end up getting tower dove as he dings 6 and unleashes full combo + ignite on me. Between the passive play on my part (freefarming for him) and the kill gold, he completely caught up to me and I basically turned an advantage for myself into a wash by sticking around on the lane and accomplishing nothing...
So it's got me thinking... why do I stay on the lane that long post kill? Shouldn't I just push the current creep wave to get as much exp and gold as I can in a 10-20 second period, back, and buy appropriate items to stay ahead? As much as level advantage helps, unless I'm still sitting on some HP pots and really zoning the hell out of them, aren't I better off using my gold advantage quickly to stay ahead of my opposition and not letting them get any leverage whatsoever to turn the lane around? Especially mid this seems like the right thing to do because you can call your jungler over to get some free solo exp (in this instance, at a period where the jungle is relatively dry too...).
I dunno, just felt like throwing this out there as it's been on my mind since that game... don't be stubborn about backing after early kills. Maintaining item advantage by backing is safer and typically better than getting those extra 30 seconds of freefarm. I could've been up boots + long sword + null mantle + 3 hp pots vs. d-ring + boots + 2 hp pots, but my subbornness undid my strong early play.
haha i thought you'd have this down to a science since you used to solomid all the time with panth yeah?
the way i figure it is, while they're dead, you farm up. then you wanna be back at fountain by the time they respawn. then you can arrive back in mid at same time as them. some other champs can just sit in mid i guess (like vlad...) but it seems very unlikely that you'll have enough staying power. at most you'll be ahead of them by 1 level but your health and mana might be low and you'll have worse items. hmm but yeah this policy gives you a very clean cut advantage. staying in lane is definitely the higher risk for a greater (but is it even that much greater) reward
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Such is the bane of a many solo lane..
It's hard to draw the line between maximizing your virtual advantage and being reckless. Perhaps the right move is to bluepill, and then use your extra 20-30 seconds to either push back an aggressive lane, gank and over extended lane or harass a jungler? If your team is doing their job, SOMEONE on the other team should be without an escape mechanism summoner spell and around 50% life by level 3-4.
That's my take on it, at least.
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You get a kill, you push the lane. That way you get the extra 10 seconds to go buy while he pushes the wave back. This also keeps him from getting xp as the tower blows up minions while he isn't there.
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On September 08 2010 05:21 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 05:12 Mogwai wrote:
So I've started thinking pretty hard about what to do post-kill on solo lanes before first bluepill. Last night I was up again Dubu's Kass mid with Panth. I scored a hard fought kill fairly early (level 4ish, first blood) and I just did my standard freefarming post-kill. Dubu teleports back to the lane and since I'm exhausted on HP Pots and up agaist a Kass with boots, d-ring, and 2 hp pots as just boots on Panth, I stick around, but just play really passively. Long story short, I end up getting tower dove as he dings 6 and unleashes full combo + ignite on me. Between the passive play on my part (freefarming for him) and the kill gold, he completely caught up to me and I basically turned an advantage for myself into a wash by sticking around on the lane and accomplishing nothing...
So it's got me thinking... why do I stay on the lane that long post kill? Shouldn't I just push the current creep wave to get as much exp and gold as I can in a 10-20 second period, back, and buy appropriate items to stay ahead? As much as level advantage helps, unless I'm still sitting on some HP pots and really zoning the hell out of them, aren't I better off using my gold advantage quickly to stay ahead of my opposition and not letting them get any leverage whatsoever to turn the lane around? Especially mid this seems like the right thing to do because you can call your jungler over to get some free solo exp (in this instance, at a period where the jungle is relatively dry too...).
I dunno, just felt like throwing this out there as it's been on my mind since that game... don't be stubborn about backing after early kills. Maintaining item advantage by backing is safer and typically better than getting those extra 30 seconds of freefarm. I could've been up boots + long sword + null mantle + 3 hp pots vs. d-ring + boots + 2 hp pots, but my subbornness undid my strong early play. haha i thought you'd have this down to a science since you used to solomid all the time with panth yeah? the way i figure it is, while they're dead, you farm up. then you wanna be back at fountain by the time they respawn. then you can arrive back in mid at same time as them. some other champs can just sit in mid i guess (like vlad...) but it seems very unlikely that you'll have enough staying power. at most you'll be ahead of them by 1 level but your health and mana might be low and you'll have worse items. hmm but yeah this policy gives you a very clean cut advantage. staying in lane is definitely the higher risk for a greater (but is it even that much greater) reward
haha, yea, you'd think I'd have it down to a science by now, but I dunno, season 1 and smurfing have kinda trained me to bad habits by pitting me against baddies enough that I don't feel the need to be conservative with an advantage, you know?
like, if I FB a morgana at level 2 using 1 hp pot (happens a lot still in 1500/1600s, LOL) I just sit there and farm without thinking about it. I mean, what's she gonna do? buy 5 hp pots? OH NOES, ANYTHING BUT THAT! So yea, I guess I've just been trained into doing stupid things and don't get punished that much for it with a champ that has a global ult to reset quickly onto my lane when they finally start to outshine me on items enough that I have to bluepill.
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Just faced a Soraka, Taric, Shen, Olaf, Kog Maw team. Pretty much unkillable for our random composition of Singed (me), Soraka, Nasus, Kennen, Urgot.
Kog Maw stayed in mid with nothing but a DSword forever. Then he bought Zerkers and Bloodrazor at once. Me and Nasus were struggling against Soraka+Taric. Olaf went for Zerkers, Phage, Sash and Malady. lol.
Our Soraka was blaming everyone for not getting HP and Armor (I went for RoA, Mercs, 2 Negatrons, Cata for Veil).
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After I kill someone I just try to get my minions killed by their tower so they lose out on a bunch of exp, then I usually will back unless I somehow killed them while taking almost no damage.
Or if I'm nidalee I'll just stick around and farm jungle or something while letting my heal get me back to full.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
I swear I've hit a lizard boss for 1440 with double elixir. I dunno where that damage came from, but it seemed like everything was doubled - the bonus damage, the base damage, the sheen bonus etc. It didn't show a crit though.
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Am I the only one who thinks CDR is one of, if not the, best stat in the game? CDR/lvl Glyphs and Quints all the way. The sheer usefulness of it is unmatched. Playing Morgana early game without my minimum 20% CDR is just painful. I can barely do anything. I just played a game as Mundo and went 19-4-11 because of being able to ult into a team fight and ult out of the same team fight.
Randomly posting because some other guy did:
Morgana:
CV/Flash
9/0/21
MPen
MR/5/lvl
CDR/lvl
CDR/lvl Quints
Still deciding on Ring or Meki Pendant. I need to do some AP math and figure out how much AP I need to 1x Tormented Soil farm at lvl 5 on ranged creeps. But for now I go DR + pot. I've played enough games that I go Mejai's ASAP. Then in no particular order soul shroud and chalice. Usually something like mana manipulator, chalice, belt, upgrade boots, soul shroud. At this point, with CDR runes I'll have close to 30% CDR. I've tried Zhonya's at this point a few times, really didn't like it. Simply didn't do enough. Getting a Void Staff has far more noticeable results. However, after completing Soul Shroud, Chalice, getting 10+ Stacks on Mejai's, and having boots depending on their team, I go for Hextech Blade into Will of the Ancients. 50% spell vamp and up to +150 free AP for team is ridiculous. I can't count the amount of times I've lived simply because I spell vamp sooooo much life through spamming W and using Ulti. After that I go GA and I don't need anything else.
My average score with Morg is something like 80-90% win rate and 10-1-20. Pretty good if I might say so.
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cdr seems like the worst stat to me and if you really need it, there's blue buff and tons of items that give GOOD stats and cdr as a secondary
also i run movespeed quints on olaf, seems mandatory (in addition to ghost/improved ghost)
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Terrible. He build AD Poppy with some of the shittiest items I've ever seen. Merc treads, trinity force, BF sword for 7135.
edit: I also don't see what he's getting the 1.4 multiplier.
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On September 08 2010 06:00 Jazriel wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks CDR is one of, if not the, best stat in the game?
no, lots of people agree with you, but you're wrong.
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CDR only matters if you get a whole chunk of it at once.
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222*trinityforce= 511+100+144(8%)=755. That's more than lich bane.
assuming the 1.4 multiplier is right then it's 1057.
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On September 08 2010 06:04 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 06:00 Jazriel wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks CDR is one of, if not the, best stat in the game? no, lots of people agree with you, but you're wrong.
How so? You're a name I correlate with not-retarded posts, so if you could link me to or create an argument against CDR I'd be interested in reading it.
I realize Magic Resist Glyphs are simply more useful on more aggressive characters (Garen and Nasus come to mind), but for me, playing Zilean, Morgana, Ashe, and Rammus, the CDR is something I can't imagine a touch of MRes would be inferiour to. Zilean absolutely needs 40% CDR. With full Runes and Masteries and a Soul Shroud that's 39.12% CDR. For Morgana, I find that I'm very good with using her stun, and being able to use it asap, I don't see how survivability for a character that is already out of the way and hard to CC would be any better. On Ashe, having 2.4 sec cooldown on Volley late game through runes and brutalizer and being able to spam hawkshot constantly, how would MRes or MR/5/lvl glyphs be better?
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
So triforce into crit items for Poppy all the way?
CDR is a good stat, but it is way overrated. You can never go wrong with CDR glyphs, but they are equally mediocre on all but a select few champs. It's basically for those champs whose opportunities to do damage come more often than the cooldowns are refreshed. If you think your laning phase over, there's not that many of them. I bought them for Kassadin because every millisecond matters, but then again investing into something that lets you blue buff more often might prove better.
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On September 08 2010 06:13 Jazriel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 06:04 Mogwai wrote:On September 08 2010 06:00 Jazriel wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks CDR is one of, if not the, best stat in the game? no, lots of people agree with you, but you're wrong. How so? You're a name I correlate with not-retarded posts, so if you could link me to or create an argument against CDR I'd be interested in reading it. I realize Magic Resist Glyphs are simply more useful on more aggressive characters (Garen and Nasus come to mind), but for me, playing Zilean, Morgana, Ashe, and Rammus, the CDR is something I can't imagine a touch of MRes would be inferiour to. Zilean absolutely needs 40% CDR. With full Runes and Masteries and a Soul Shroud that's 39.12% CDR. For Morgana, I find that I'm very good with using her stun, and being able to use it asap, I don't see how survivability for a character that is already out of the way and hard to CC would be any better. On Ashe, having 2.4 sec cooldown on Volley late game through runes and brutalizer and being able to spam hawkshot constantly, how would MRes or MR/5/lvl glyphs be better?
well, essentially what WRAWRA is saying here:
On September 08 2010 03:52 redtooth wrote:
- flat CDR (i'm a firm believer that CDR is a useless stat. full glyphs give 6% CDR. that means in a 100 second CD, you save yourself 6 seconds. WOW SO GUD. in a 10 second CD, you save yourself .6 seconds. AMAZING RIGHT? account for human error/reflexes and the fact that you time your skills and don't blind spam, your CD runes are going to waste since the time you save is being wasted regardless. don't know about you but i'd rather have half a negatron.)
While you can sometimes do analysis that shows CDR to be a more powerful DPS stat than say AP or Magic Pen, it all hinges on you actually casting the spell immediately after having it come off CD. And yes, there are some scenarios where this is the case, but on most champions in most scenarios, I think you'll find that timing is more delicate than just spamming, and essentially you're "wasting" the CDR stat for every split second that your ability sits there off of CD without you casting it.
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On September 08 2010 06:16 BluzMan wrote:
So triforce into crit items for Poppy all the way?
CDR is a good stat, but it is way overrated. You can never go wrong with CDR glyphs, but they are equally mediocre on all but a select few champs.
No, I didn't read one part, it can't crit. However poppy's normal attacks CAN crits, and with some 200 AD that doesn't tickle. A finished build would be boots+trinity force+IF+bf sword upgrade+bf sword upgrade+ phantom dancer. I've never made it that far, because once you get 4 items you can kill any tank in the game while running circles around him, and two shot a carry. Once you finish trinity force you can kill any carry, and it just get's worse and worse for them.
AP is cheaper, but poppy's only two damaging abilities have .4 and .6 ap ratio's, so you aren't actually doing more damage with AP than AD (compared to 1 ad ratio on Q, though E has two .4 ap calculations). Poppy is faster than anything in the game, so might as well use that time that you've caught up to get those 600 crits on them while you wait for Q.
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CDR definitely is a good stat on the right champs. It's pretty obvious that not all champs have a good use for it though.
Whether you get CDR runes (if you get any CDR) or not depends on your item build and masteries. As always in LoL, small values add up.
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EPT
