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On September 08 2010 06:23 Mogwai wrote:
While you can sometimes do analysis that shows CDR to be a more powerful DPS stat than say AP or Magic Pen, it all hinges on you actually casting the spell immediately after having it come off CD. And yes, there are some scenarios where this is the case, but on most champions in most scenarios, I think you'll find that timing is more delicate than just spamming, and essentially you're "wasting" the CDR stat for every split second that your ability sits there off of CD without you casting it.
But a perspective like that is drastically minimizing the power of knowing that you can rely on having access to your skill at any given time. Spamming Volley every 2.4 seconds with Ashe sounds good on paper, but I find that what's more useful is being able to AoE slow on command.
Saying that having a skill ready to use is a waste of CDR can be applied the same way to (what I see as being preferred for most heroes) MRes. Every time you take non-magical damage, those rune slots were wasted.
As for "Oh noez, it's only .6 seconds you're saving." That is a lot of time in competitive gaming. When I played Halo semi-professionally, I've killed entire teams in less than a second (Quite possibly a slight exaggeration). I may be arguing something that's entirely my playstyle, something that doesn't have a right or wrong answer, but having the ability to use Puncturing Taunt even 0.1 second faster has scored me kills, and continued the general "snowball" to victory.
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It's not like a bit of MR/Armor on Ashe does much anyways. I'm usually like... dumdidum, attacking that semi-squishy guy who is slightly out of position... Oh, look, Poppy is standing on my corpse.
But with CDR I might have fired one more Volley, and 40% CDR ECA IS AWESOME.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
anyone that thinks flat CDR blues are bad doesnt play junglers. Try keeping up with my jungling when I have blue buff + flat CDR while you are only on blue buff.
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On September 08 2010 06:31 Jazriel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 06:23 Mogwai wrote:
While you can sometimes do analysis that shows CDR to be a more powerful DPS stat than say AP or Magic Pen, it all hinges on you actually casting the spell immediately after having it come off CD. And yes, there are some scenarios where this is the case, but on most champions in most scenarios, I think you'll find that timing is more delicate than just spamming, and essentially you're "wasting" the CDR stat for every split second that your ability sits there off of CD without you casting it. But a perspective like that is drastically minimizing the power of knowing that you can rely on having access to your skill at any given time. Spamming Volley every 2.4 seconds with Ashe sounds good on paper, but I find that what's more useful is being able to AoE slow on command. Saying that having a skill ready to use is a waste of CDR can be applied the same way to (what I see as being preferred for most heroes) MRes. Every time you take non-magical damage, those rune slots were wasted. As for "Oh noez, it's only .6 seconds you're saving." That is a lot of time in competitive gaming. When I played Halo semi-professionally, I've killed entire teams in less than a second (Quite possibly a slight exaggeration). I may be arguing something that's entirely my playstyle, something that doesn't have a right or wrong answer, but having the ability to use Puncturing Taunt even 0.1 second faster has scored me kills, and continued the general "snowball" to victory.
0.6 seconds is an eternity in a fighting game or an FPS, but in a MOBA it's usually not the end of the world if you have to wait that extra second for your stun. *shrugs* if the main limiting factor on your ability usage is the Cooldowns, then by all means run Cooldown Glyphs, but I think a lot of people underestimate mana constraints and burst survivability and the concessions that they have to make in their build to compensate for the holes in those areas. I typically find that I don't get to use as many abilities as I'd like because I run out of mana first or because I die, moreso than waiting for cooldowns.
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Idk, I used to run CDR per Lvl blues and glyphs on nidalee since the more takedowns and swipes you can get off when chasing someone is huge. I've switched to ms quints though.
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8751 Posts
On September 08 2010 05:29 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 05:21 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On September 08 2010 05:12 Mogwai wrote:
So I've started thinking pretty hard about what to do post-kill on solo lanes before first bluepill. Last night I was up again Dubu's Kass mid with Panth. I scored a hard fought kill fairly early (level 4ish, first blood) and I just did my standard freefarming post-kill. Dubu teleports back to the lane and since I'm exhausted on HP Pots and up agaist a Kass with boots, d-ring, and 2 hp pots as just boots on Panth, I stick around, but just play really passively. Long story short, I end up getting tower dove as he dings 6 and unleashes full combo + ignite on me. Between the passive play on my part (freefarming for him) and the kill gold, he completely caught up to me and I basically turned an advantage for myself into a wash by sticking around on the lane and accomplishing nothing...
So it's got me thinking... why do I stay on the lane that long post kill? Shouldn't I just push the current creep wave to get as much exp and gold as I can in a 10-20 second period, back, and buy appropriate items to stay ahead? As much as level advantage helps, unless I'm still sitting on some HP pots and really zoning the hell out of them, aren't I better off using my gold advantage quickly to stay ahead of my opposition and not letting them get any leverage whatsoever to turn the lane around? Especially mid this seems like the right thing to do because you can call your jungler over to get some free solo exp (in this instance, at a period where the jungle is relatively dry too...).
I dunno, just felt like throwing this out there as it's been on my mind since that game... don't be stubborn about backing after early kills. Maintaining item advantage by backing is safer and typically better than getting those extra 30 seconds of freefarm. I could've been up boots + long sword + null mantle + 3 hp pots vs. d-ring + boots + 2 hp pots, but my subbornness undid my strong early play. haha i thought you'd have this down to a science since you used to solomid all the time with panth yeah? the way i figure it is, while they're dead, you farm up. then you wanna be back at fountain by the time they respawn. then you can arrive back in mid at same time as them. some other champs can just sit in mid i guess (like vlad...) but it seems very unlikely that you'll have enough staying power. at most you'll be ahead of them by 1 level but your health and mana might be low and you'll have worse items. hmm but yeah this policy gives you a very clean cut advantage. staying in lane is definitely the higher risk for a greater (but is it even that much greater) reward haha, yea, you'd think I'd have it down to a science by now, but I dunno, season 1 and smurfing have kinda trained me to bad habits by pitting me against baddies enough that I don't feel the need to be conservative with an advantage, you know? like, if I FB a morgana at level 2 using 1 hp pot (happens a lot still in 1500/1600s, LOL) I just sit there and farm without thinking about it. I mean, what's she gonna do? buy 5 hp pots? OH NOES, ANYTHING BUT THAT! So yea, I guess I've just been trained into doing stupid things and don't get punished that much for it with a champ that has a global ult to reset quickly onto my lane when they finally start to outshine me on items enough that I have to bluepill.
yeah maybe you should just think from their perspective. i mean sometimes someone must get FB on you and when you see them staying in mid with 70% health 20% mana or so, you are just thinking "im gonna run straight to him and kill him or at least make him b" so you know how it feels
and of course summoner spells are another thing to keep in mind
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On September 08 2010 06:41 Brees wrote:
anyone that thinks flat CDR blues are bad doesnt play junglers. Try keeping up with my jungling when I have blue buff + flat CDR while you are only on blue buff.
Junglers are a good example of CDR blues being used well because they basically just spam their skills while jungling.
I also run them on Garen because I already have enough survivability that I last as long as possible in teamfights, and CDR is the best way to maximize his damage output in fights as cooldowns and survivability are the only limiting factors on his ability usage.
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On September 08 2010 06:41 Brees wrote:
anyone that thinks flat CDR blues are bad doesnt play junglers. Try keeping up with my jungling when I have blue buff + flat CDR while you are only on blue buff.
Junglers are a race against time where you spam every single one of your spells everytime they're off CD. That 5% cooldown would amount to a whole lot of extra warwick Q's during the course of jungling.
It matters a whole lot less if you're in lane and aren't spamming your skill at every given opportunity because 1) they're not going to be in range to trade hits with you everytime your skills are off cd, and 2) you need to consider your own position relative to creeps before you go in and use a skill.
Flat CDR is good on some, but inferior to magic resistance or even magic pen on others.
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On September 08 2010 04:37 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 04:19 Zanzabar Haberdasher wrote:
I live and die by Armor Pen Reds/Mp5 Blue/Mp5 Quint/Flat HP quints on most heroes.
Is full Armor Pen viable for anyone? I would love it on Panth if he wasn't so damned mana hungry. Kat, maybe? You can only get Armor Pen on Marks and Quints iirc, so yea, full Armor Pen on Pantheon. ArPen on Marks and Quints, Mana Regen per level on Seals and Glyphs. Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 04:20 STS17 wrote:
I use CDR on my heimer page because between the CDR blues and quints + talents + his ult I hit max CDR without ever needing an item which gives it. This helps me free up blue buff for another player earlier in the game (once I no longer need it for mana regen) and many casters of junglers can benefit from being able to spam their skills more often. I... I don't... I don't understand... Not need mana... as Heimer? What is this... I don't even... Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 04:29 STS17 wrote:
Quick question.
Health or armor yellows? Opinions for junglers and tanks (also other suggestions are welcome).
I feel like health is better since it benefits both physical and magic damage and armor is easier to get then health Armor is better on Junglers. Armor Seals + Cloth Armor + 14 in defensive masteries is like cheating at jungling, it's so fucking easy, lol.
Between MP5pl seals and the mana regen mastery + 21 in utility and clarity, I've found that I don't run out of mana at level 18 unless I'm sitting in there base spamming everything ever for like 5 minutes, which is generally a bad idea unless the game is already won at that point. Fact is, at that stage it doesn't matter if I'm at half mana or full as I can still do everything I need to to be fully effective. Since you can't hurt towers with the grenade, super spamming it on every cooldown is less common (and effective) unless you are harassing during one of those stand-offs where one team is sitting at their tower and the other is looking for a time to initiate.
Point is, at that stage someone else can benefit more from having blue for both the CDR and mana regen (sustained taric / anivia ulti for example) then I can and heimer at max CDR is good to have regardless, so if you aren't dependent on items or a buff at that stage, then you only need to worry about mana and I have no issues there.
For the record I open Mana Crystal and pots and depending on how farmed I am on my first B I either get NLR or Tear and boots. Eventually the crystal turns into a tear at some point and that only helps reduce my dependency on mana regen.
Note I'm not saying that you should not hog the buff at earlier levels as it still benefits you far more then almost every other champion there is in the early and later stages of the game.
Hope that helps you understand my reasoning.
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lolz ww can solo baron with level 13 and bloodrazors
you need to grab blue buff and keep dodging those bubble knockups from baron
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On September 08 2010 06:44 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 05:29 Mogwai wrote:On September 08 2010 05:21 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On September 08 2010 05:12 Mogwai wrote:
So I've started thinking pretty hard about what to do post-kill on solo lanes before first bluepill. Last night I was up again Dubu's Kass mid with Panth. I scored a hard fought kill fairly early (level 4ish, first blood) and I just did my standard freefarming post-kill. Dubu teleports back to the lane and since I'm exhausted on HP Pots and up agaist a Kass with boots, d-ring, and 2 hp pots as just boots on Panth, I stick around, but just play really passively. Long story short, I end up getting tower dove as he dings 6 and unleashes full combo + ignite on me. Between the passive play on my part (freefarming for him) and the kill gold, he completely caught up to me and I basically turned an advantage for myself into a wash by sticking around on the lane and accomplishing nothing...
So it's got me thinking... why do I stay on the lane that long post kill? Shouldn't I just push the current creep wave to get as much exp and gold as I can in a 10-20 second period, back, and buy appropriate items to stay ahead? As much as level advantage helps, unless I'm still sitting on some HP pots and really zoning the hell out of them, aren't I better off using my gold advantage quickly to stay ahead of my opposition and not letting them get any leverage whatsoever to turn the lane around? Especially mid this seems like the right thing to do because you can call your jungler over to get some free solo exp (in this instance, at a period where the jungle is relatively dry too...).
I dunno, just felt like throwing this out there as it's been on my mind since that game... don't be stubborn about backing after early kills. Maintaining item advantage by backing is safer and typically better than getting those extra 30 seconds of freefarm. I could've been up boots + long sword + null mantle + 3 hp pots vs. d-ring + boots + 2 hp pots, but my subbornness undid my strong early play. haha i thought you'd have this down to a science since you used to solomid all the time with panth yeah? the way i figure it is, while they're dead, you farm up. then you wanna be back at fountain by the time they respawn. then you can arrive back in mid at same time as them. some other champs can just sit in mid i guess (like vlad...) but it seems very unlikely that you'll have enough staying power. at most you'll be ahead of them by 1 level but your health and mana might be low and you'll have worse items. hmm but yeah this policy gives you a very clean cut advantage. staying in lane is definitely the higher risk for a greater (but is it even that much greater) reward haha, yea, you'd think I'd have it down to a science by now, but I dunno, season 1 and smurfing have kinda trained me to bad habits by pitting me against baddies enough that I don't feel the need to be conservative with an advantage, you know? like, if I FB a morgana at level 2 using 1 hp pot (happens a lot still in 1500/1600s, LOL) I just sit there and farm without thinking about it. I mean, what's she gonna do? buy 5 hp pots? OH NOES, ANYTHING BUT THAT! So yea, I guess I've just been trained into doing stupid things and don't get punished that much for it with a champ that has a global ult to reset quickly onto my lane when they finally start to outshine me on items enough that I have to bluepill. yeah maybe you should just think from their perspective. i mean sometimes someone must get FB on you and when you see them staying in mid with 70% health 20% mana or so, you are just thinking "im gonna run straight to him and kill him or at least make him b" so you know how it feels and of course summoner spells are another thing to keep in mind
as a rule in my beginner level games when somebody gets back from an early death the first thing they do is run straight at you and throw out a nuke. Doesn't matter if you are impossible to kill, they just wanna get up in your face - they feel like they're at a huge advantage because they have full hp and mana.
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On September 08 2010 07:46 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 06:44 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On September 08 2010 05:29 Mogwai wrote:On September 08 2010 05:21 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On September 08 2010 05:12 Mogwai wrote:
So I've started thinking pretty hard about what to do post-kill on solo lanes before first bluepill. Last night I was up again Dubu's Kass mid with Panth. I scored a hard fought kill fairly early (level 4ish, first blood) and I just did my standard freefarming post-kill. Dubu teleports back to the lane and since I'm exhausted on HP Pots and up agaist a Kass with boots, d-ring, and 2 hp pots as just boots on Panth, I stick around, but just play really passively. Long story short, I end up getting tower dove as he dings 6 and unleashes full combo + ignite on me. Between the passive play on my part (freefarming for him) and the kill gold, he completely caught up to me and I basically turned an advantage for myself into a wash by sticking around on the lane and accomplishing nothing...
So it's got me thinking... why do I stay on the lane that long post kill? Shouldn't I just push the current creep wave to get as much exp and gold as I can in a 10-20 second period, back, and buy appropriate items to stay ahead? As much as level advantage helps, unless I'm still sitting on some HP pots and really zoning the hell out of them, aren't I better off using my gold advantage quickly to stay ahead of my opposition and not letting them get any leverage whatsoever to turn the lane around? Especially mid this seems like the right thing to do because you can call your jungler over to get some free solo exp (in this instance, at a period where the jungle is relatively dry too...).
I dunno, just felt like throwing this out there as it's been on my mind since that game... don't be stubborn about backing after early kills. Maintaining item advantage by backing is safer and typically better than getting those extra 30 seconds of freefarm. I could've been up boots + long sword + null mantle + 3 hp pots vs. d-ring + boots + 2 hp pots, but my subbornness undid my strong early play. haha i thought you'd have this down to a science since you used to solomid all the time with panth yeah? the way i figure it is, while they're dead, you farm up. then you wanna be back at fountain by the time they respawn. then you can arrive back in mid at same time as them. some other champs can just sit in mid i guess (like vlad...) but it seems very unlikely that you'll have enough staying power. at most you'll be ahead of them by 1 level but your health and mana might be low and you'll have worse items. hmm but yeah this policy gives you a very clean cut advantage. staying in lane is definitely the higher risk for a greater (but is it even that much greater) reward haha, yea, you'd think I'd have it down to a science by now, but I dunno, season 1 and smurfing have kinda trained me to bad habits by pitting me against baddies enough that I don't feel the need to be conservative with an advantage, you know? like, if I FB a morgana at level 2 using 1 hp pot (happens a lot still in 1500/1600s, LOL) I just sit there and farm without thinking about it. I mean, what's she gonna do? buy 5 hp pots? OH NOES, ANYTHING BUT THAT! So yea, I guess I've just been trained into doing stupid things and don't get punished that much for it with a champ that has a global ult to reset quickly onto my lane when they finally start to outshine me on items enough that I have to bluepill. yeah maybe you should just think from their perspective. i mean sometimes someone must get FB on you and when you see them staying in mid with 70% health 20% mana or so, you are just thinking "im gonna run straight to him and kill him or at least make him b" so you know how it feels and of course summoner spells are another thing to keep in mind as a rule in my beginner level games when somebody gets back from an early death the first thing they do is run straight at you and throw out a nuke. Doesn't matter if you are impossible to kill, they just wanna get up in your face - they feel like they're at a huge advantage because they have full hp and mana.
I see this all the time and it's even netted me a second kill because they are too reckless. If I'm mid and score an early kill (especially first blood) I will typically B when they have 8-10 seconds left on their respawn, that way I can maximize my free farming time and still get back to the lane theoretically at the same time they do, provided I make my purchasing quickly. Once you return you should be ahead on experience and gold and therefore have an item advantage as well, meanwhile you are both at full health and mana.
In a 2v1 I generally see it being reasonable to take turns going back and getting items / healing so long as the first guy to stay is relatively safe from a jungle gank, such as being our side of river and with decent HP. This lets both of you free farm for a little bit while not cutting into the experience gained in the lane (you two should remain fairly equal since you should be gone for relatively similar time spans) while giving you a more cemented advantage in the lane.
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Looks like servers are going down. Lost one of my teammates last game, and now PvP is toast.
nvm... back in. Dunno how stable everything is though. I was hoping for the patch tbh
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Whether you b immediately after a kill or wait until they respawn depends entirely on the position of the creeps as well as your current gold-count, but it's a hard judgment to make.
Imo, one of the things you don't really want to do is to stick around and chip at the tower while they're dead. You're taking risks and giving away some momentum by doing this. If creeps are already pushed to their tower after you killed them, just go back.
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On September 08 2010 07:41 STS17 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 04:37 Mogwai wrote:On September 08 2010 04:19 Zanzabar Haberdasher wrote:
I live and die by Armor Pen Reds/Mp5 Blue/Mp5 Quint/Flat HP quints on most heroes.
Is full Armor Pen viable for anyone? I would love it on Panth if he wasn't so damned mana hungry. Kat, maybe? You can only get Armor Pen on Marks and Quints iirc, so yea, full Armor Pen on Pantheon. ArPen on Marks and Quints, Mana Regen per level on Seals and Glyphs. On September 08 2010 04:20 STS17 wrote:
I use CDR on my heimer page because between the CDR blues and quints + talents + his ult I hit max CDR without ever needing an item which gives it. This helps me free up blue buff for another player earlier in the game (once I no longer need it for mana regen) and many casters of junglers can benefit from being able to spam their skills more often. I... I don't... I don't understand... Not need mana... as Heimer? What is this... I don't even... On September 08 2010 04:29 STS17 wrote:
Quick question.
Health or armor yellows? Opinions for junglers and tanks (also other suggestions are welcome).
I feel like health is better since it benefits both physical and magic damage and armor is easier to get then health Armor is better on Junglers. Armor Seals + Cloth Armor + 14 in defensive masteries is like cheating at jungling, it's so fucking easy, lol. Between MP5pl seals and the mana regen mastery + 21 in utility and clarity, I've found that I don't run out of mana at level 18 unless I'm sitting in there base spamming everything ever for like 5 minutes, which is generally a bad idea unless the game is already won at that point. Fact is, at that stage it doesn't matter if I'm at half mana or full as I can still do everything I need to to be fully effective. Since you can't hurt towers with the grenade, super spamming it on every cooldown is less common (and effective) unless you are harassing during one of those stand-offs where one team is sitting at their tower and the other is looking for a time to initiate. Point is, at that stage someone else can benefit more from having blue for both the CDR and mana regen (sustained taric / anivia ulti for example) then I can and heimer at max CDR is good to have regardless, so if you aren't dependent on items or a buff at that stage, then you only need to worry about mana and I have no issues there. For the record I open Mana Crystal and pots and depending on how farmed I am on my first B I either get NLR or Tear and boots. Eventually the crystal turns into a tear at some point and that only helps reduce my dependency on mana regen. Note I'm not saying that you should not hog the buff at earlier levels as it still benefits you far more then almost every other champion there is in the early and later stages of the game. Hope that helps you understand my reasoning.
If you stop running clarity(you're a clarity+teleport heimer aren't you?) and start building straight AP(the right way to heimer) you'll realize how much he needs blue buff at all stages of the game. Even with clarity, you run oom within the next minute spamming rockets and replacing(standoffs) or moving up your turrets.
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8751 Posts
On September 08 2010 07:46 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 06:44 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On September 08 2010 05:29 Mogwai wrote:On September 08 2010 05:21 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On September 08 2010 05:12 Mogwai wrote:
So I've started thinking pretty hard about what to do post-kill on solo lanes before first bluepill. Last night I was up again Dubu's Kass mid with Panth. I scored a hard fought kill fairly early (level 4ish, first blood) and I just did my standard freefarming post-kill. Dubu teleports back to the lane and since I'm exhausted on HP Pots and up agaist a Kass with boots, d-ring, and 2 hp pots as just boots on Panth, I stick around, but just play really passively. Long story short, I end up getting tower dove as he dings 6 and unleashes full combo + ignite on me. Between the passive play on my part (freefarming for him) and the kill gold, he completely caught up to me and I basically turned an advantage for myself into a wash by sticking around on the lane and accomplishing nothing...
So it's got me thinking... why do I stay on the lane that long post kill? Shouldn't I just push the current creep wave to get as much exp and gold as I can in a 10-20 second period, back, and buy appropriate items to stay ahead? As much as level advantage helps, unless I'm still sitting on some HP pots and really zoning the hell out of them, aren't I better off using my gold advantage quickly to stay ahead of my opposition and not letting them get any leverage whatsoever to turn the lane around? Especially mid this seems like the right thing to do because you can call your jungler over to get some free solo exp (in this instance, at a period where the jungle is relatively dry too...).
I dunno, just felt like throwing this out there as it's been on my mind since that game... don't be stubborn about backing after early kills. Maintaining item advantage by backing is safer and typically better than getting those extra 30 seconds of freefarm. I could've been up boots + long sword + null mantle + 3 hp pots vs. d-ring + boots + 2 hp pots, but my subbornness undid my strong early play. haha i thought you'd have this down to a science since you used to solomid all the time with panth yeah? the way i figure it is, while they're dead, you farm up. then you wanna be back at fountain by the time they respawn. then you can arrive back in mid at same time as them. some other champs can just sit in mid i guess (like vlad...) but it seems very unlikely that you'll have enough staying power. at most you'll be ahead of them by 1 level but your health and mana might be low and you'll have worse items. hmm but yeah this policy gives you a very clean cut advantage. staying in lane is definitely the higher risk for a greater (but is it even that much greater) reward haha, yea, you'd think I'd have it down to a science by now, but I dunno, season 1 and smurfing have kinda trained me to bad habits by pitting me against baddies enough that I don't feel the need to be conservative with an advantage, you know? like, if I FB a morgana at level 2 using 1 hp pot (happens a lot still in 1500/1600s, LOL) I just sit there and farm without thinking about it. I mean, what's she gonna do? buy 5 hp pots? OH NOES, ANYTHING BUT THAT! So yea, I guess I've just been trained into doing stupid things and don't get punished that much for it with a champ that has a global ult to reset quickly onto my lane when they finally start to outshine me on items enough that I have to bluepill. yeah maybe you should just think from their perspective. i mean sometimes someone must get FB on you and when you see them staying in mid with 70% health 20% mana or so, you are just thinking "im gonna run straight to him and kill him or at least make him b" so you know how it feels and of course summoner spells are another thing to keep in mind as a rule in my beginner level games when somebody gets back from an early death the first thing they do is run straight at you and throw out a nuke. Doesn't matter if you are impossible to kill, they just wanna get up in your face - they feel like they're at a huge advantage because they have full hp and mana.
yeah. but mogwai is not playing beginner level games :D the problem is when the person respawning does actually have a big advantage because of full health full mana and new items
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On September 08 2010 06:31 Jazriel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 06:23 Mogwai wrote:
While you can sometimes do analysis that shows CDR to be a more powerful DPS stat than say AP or Magic Pen, it all hinges on you actually casting the spell immediately after having it come off CD. And yes, there are some scenarios where this is the case, but on most champions in most scenarios, I think you'll find that timing is more delicate than just spamming, and essentially you're "wasting" the CDR stat for every split second that your ability sits there off of CD without you casting it. But a perspective like that is drastically minimizing the power of knowing that you can rely on having access to your skill at any given time. Spamming Volley every 2.4 seconds with Ashe sounds good on paper, but I find that what's more useful is being able to AoE slow on command. Saying that having a skill ready to use is a waste of CDR can be applied the same way to (what I see as being preferred for most heroes) MRes. Every time you take non-magical damage, those rune slots were wasted. As for "Oh noez, it's only .6 seconds you're saving." That is a lot of time in competitive gaming. When I played Halo semi-professionally, I've killed entire teams in less than a second (Quite possibly a slight exaggeration). I may be arguing something that's entirely my playstyle, something that doesn't have a right or wrong answer, but having the ability to use Puncturing Taunt even 0.1 second faster has scored me kills, and continued the general "snowball" to victory. i'm pretty sure i played at the most competitive level (i won $15 from RIOT so i guess i'm semi-pro? haha) LoL had to offer and must say that CDR did not make much of a difference. you got a taunt .1 seconds faster and killed someone? cool, i also lived with 10 hp thanks to my mres. circumstantial evidence sounds good but doesn't mean anything.
most damage in teamfights is coming through magic form considering that nobody is gonna sit back and auto you or if they do they're gonna pack madreds or get exhausted. armor stacking is relatively easy since sunfires are awesome but after banshees mres is sorta tricky (FoN is good on some not all, abyssal is the same, quicksilver is situational).
is getting CDR bad? no but i'm saying you should not go out of your way to get it like you should to get MR. in the last thread people were talking about getting Frozen Heart on fiddle to stack CD. someone asked if i get randuins on nidalee. no, CD is not a high priority IMO.
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On September 08 2010 07:41 STS17 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 04:37 Mogwai wrote:On September 08 2010 04:19 Zanzabar Haberdasher wrote:
I live and die by Armor Pen Reds/Mp5 Blue/Mp5 Quint/Flat HP quints on most heroes.
Is full Armor Pen viable for anyone? I would love it on Panth if he wasn't so damned mana hungry. Kat, maybe? You can only get Armor Pen on Marks and Quints iirc, so yea, full Armor Pen on Pantheon. ArPen on Marks and Quints, Mana Regen per level on Seals and Glyphs. On September 08 2010 04:20 STS17 wrote:
I use CDR on my heimer page because between the CDR blues and quints + talents + his ult I hit max CDR without ever needing an item which gives it. This helps me free up blue buff for another player earlier in the game (once I no longer need it for mana regen) and many casters of junglers can benefit from being able to spam their skills more often. I... I don't... I don't understand... Not need mana... as Heimer? What is this... I don't even... On September 08 2010 04:29 STS17 wrote:
Quick question.
Health or armor yellows? Opinions for junglers and tanks (also other suggestions are welcome).
I feel like health is better since it benefits both physical and magic damage and armor is easier to get then health Armor is better on Junglers. Armor Seals + Cloth Armor + 14 in defensive masteries is like cheating at jungling, it's so fucking easy, lol. Between MP5pl seals and the mana regen mastery + 21 in utility and clarity, I've found that I don't run out of mana at level 18 unless I'm sitting in there base spamming everything ever for like 5 minutes, which is generally a bad idea unless the game is already won at that point. Fact is, at that stage it doesn't matter if I'm at half mana or full as I can still do everything I need to to be fully effective. Since you can't hurt towers with the grenade, super spamming it on every cooldown is less common (and effective) unless you are harassing during one of those stand-offs where one team is sitting at their tower and the other is looking for a time to initiate. Point is, at that stage someone else can benefit more from having blue for both the CDR and mana regen (sustained taric / anivia ulti for example) then I can and heimer at max CDR is good to have regardless, so if you aren't dependent on items or a buff at that stage, then you only need to worry about mana and I have no issues there. For the record I open Mana Crystal and pots and depending on how farmed I am on my first B I either get NLR or Tear and boots. Eventually the crystal turns into a tear at some point and that only helps reduce my dependency on mana regen. Note I'm not saying that you should not hog the buff at earlier levels as it still benefits you far more then almost every other champion there is in the early and later stages of the game. Hope that helps you understand my reasoning.
If you're running clarity and building a tear on Heimer than you're doing it wrong.
Try ghost flash rushing zhonyas. You'll usually get 2-3 dorans rings at the start, though.
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I run clarity and ghost or flash I find clarity to be an excellent choice because it can help sustain a team push too.
You guys may disagree with me (as demonstrated by the arrogance of saying "the right way to play heimer") but I am extremely successful with my build and you will have to put forth some extremely good proof to change that.
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I play Kassadin myself with MP/5' Blues/Yellows and Masteries and a Doran's Shield.
For the most part with this setup I don't even have to go back after my first blood. I just play it safe and regenerate, farm, and keep an eye out for MIA's coming to gank me.
Normally though I'd say to farm up the current creepwave or two then go back yourself if you don't have any regen.
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EPT
