EPTor Xin Zhao
or Sion
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myopia
United States2928 Posts
or Xin Zhao or Sion | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
On July 23 2010 04:54 Mogwai wrote: not all tanks can output the type of damage that amumu can  .Every tank can outlast people, some better than others. With Rammus you end up needing to build a hybrid AP/tank to do it, but it's possible. Not to mention every farmed tank can 1v1 DPS carries easily. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
On July 23 2010 04:54 Mogwai wrote: not all tanks can output the type of damage that amumu can .I'm perfectly fine as Alistar by leaving every kill and sitting with my heart of gold, while my 6 kill lv 5 jax is pretty much a plush doll with a huge "KILL ME" sign on its head. A lv 7 rageblade is already late, if I have to sit with dodge boots and pickaxe at lv 10 there is something wrong. | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
On July 23 2010 04:45 Mogwai wrote: In the early game, you're main constraint on harassment is mana, not CDs, so unless you're jungling (blue buff) or a non-mana user, I don't see them as all that useful during that phase. in the mid-late game mostly I find that fights don't last long enough for your 2nd ability uses to be much more than a luxury. Initial burst goes down and the battle is typically decided, with faster CDs typically only being useful for cleanup, where I typically consider needing to wait another second or two to not be an issue. Maybe I'm biased by my champs (Kayle, Ryze). Kayle is definitely gonna be getting multiple heals and snares off in a fight and being caught with righteous fury down while chasing completely sucks. Ryze feeds off CDR immensely because of his passive. Early game he's definitely just nuke and run but when he has CDR at 40% and higher skill ranks, he can practically chain cast, and his R comes back super fast. A Ryze that goes into mid-late game battles with less than 30% CDR is bad. Golem isn't reliable and it's definitely nice when you don't have to hog it and you have a teammate that can benefit from it. Amumu change Despair from 1 sec to .6 sec omg damage. Amumus get Frozen Heart plz ps: I agree with southlight that tanks need to farm and they will carry | ||
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STS17
United States1817 Posts
On July 23 2010 04:56 myopia wrote: honestly I'd rather lane against Heimer than I would Blitzcrank Try laning against heimer and blitzcrank. Man those are fun games to watch the other team rage ^^. hey look at you! INTO THA TURRETS YOU GO! Regarding the other game - my first suggestion is don't play with retards ^^ Secondly, if you want to beat heimer have your tank stack magic resist. The turrets do exclusively magic damage and heimer's auto-attack is laughable. Unless heimer builds a tanking build (in which case his turrets don't hit hard at all) he can be focused fairly easily due to his low defenses. Really I can't offer much without knowing the general team compositions but really the best way to handle heimer is when he is moving (i.e. wait for them to kill one tower then fight them as they prepare to engage the next) At max CDR, it takes 9.6 seconds per turrets for heimer to set-up so that gives you an extensive window where he isn't performing nearly as well as he should. If heimer is stacking AP (as he should) then his turrets hit as hard as towers late-game (often harder) so it becomes important to engage him on the move (think of him as meching terran) | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
EDIT: the heimer only had 3 doran rings and archangel, he wasn't even a good player. It's just quite impossible to do anything vs that. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
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Orpheos
United States1663 Posts
On July 23 2010 05:00 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Maybe I'm biased by my champs (Kayle, Ryze). Kayle is definitely gonna be getting multiple heals and snares off in a fight and being caught with righteous fury down while chasing completely sucks. Ryze feeds off CDR immensely because of his passive. Early game he's definitely just nuke and run but when he has CDR at 40% and higher skill ranks, he can practically chain cast, and his R comes back super fast. A Ryze that goes into mid-late game battles with less than 30% CDR is bad. Golem isn't reliable and it's definitely nice when you don't have to hog it and you have a teammate that can benefit from it. Amumu change Despair from 1 sec to .6 sec omg damage. Amumus get Frozen Heart plz ps: I agree with southlight that tanks need to farm and they will carry kayle is def someone who gains immensely from cdr. especially in the way you can itemize her(GRB/Nashor). ult every battle. and her passive means you get alot more bang for your buck so you dont feel bad buying CDR. the issue is that if your champ can use cdr to get 2 spells in one team battle, cdr is really only taking a second-ish off at 40%. so you are paying alot for a second and that better make a huge difference in every fight, which might not be the case with the chaos and CC flying around. idk thats just me. *edit i think the point is CDR is a useful stat, but its not as useful as some other stats, certainly not the most cost effective in alot of situations. which is why you dont see every caster getting CDR items. as for tanks, they need ALOT of money just like dps carries to do their job. so even if they dont fit the standard definition of "carry" they still need the farm. | ||
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NonY
8748 Posts
On July 23 2010 05:05 Mogwai wrote: CDR does not interact with despair like that to the best of my knowledge. abilities that do ticks still tick on the same intervals, you can just turn them back on after turning them off faster than you could before. That's true. I was just trying to find a champ that CDR is nearly useless for and give a good reason lol. But seriously, CDR rocks on Kayle and Ryze | ||
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NonY
8748 Posts
On July 23 2010 05:07 Orpheos wrote: the issue is that if your champ can use cdr to get 2 spells in one team battle, cdr is really only taking a second-ish off at 40%. so you are paying alot of a second and that better make a huge difference in every fight, which might not be the case with the chaos and CC flying around. idk thats just me. I'm not quite sure what you're saying in this paragraph but if you can get off 2 heals with CDR and only 1 heal without, then you do a lot more healing by buying CDR than by buying AP. If more healing doesn't make a difference in the fight, then you shouldn't be getting either. Then the issue is not that CDR sucks but rather that Kayle's healing sucks. CDR as a stat would still be superior to AP as a stat. | ||
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Kultcher
United States150 Posts
I don't think it really gets mentioned too often in the AP vs. AD Kat debates so I'm curious what others think. | ||
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Orpheos
United States1663 Posts
but cdr should not be a default stat for all champs. i mean the thing is its useful for alot of champs, but rarely is it the best thing to get. and its especially useful on kayle because it lets you ult everytime as well as squeeze out a second heal/slow sometimes during the longer battles. but if you have a champ that only has low cd spells, you are paying alot for 2seconds of CDR that may or may not be useful. and if you have a champ with medium cd spells you are really only gonna use stuff once per teamfight so CDR isnt too useful. its like panths nerf decreased CD on HSS, but how useful is that really? | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On July 23 2010 05:19 Kultcher wrote: So I usually play Kat as AD but I was messing around with AP today and decided to try Lich Bane. I know that you're essentially wasting money on +mana that's useless, but then I see people do that with Banshee's Veil anyway. The proc kind of creates a "double shunpo" when you Shunpo + autoattack, and it also does let you contribute a little more to fights when your ult doesn't work out. It's kind of cool to just turn on KI and then autoattack for like 400 (endgame with Zhonya's of course). It seems like a nice way to close the gap between AD and AP since it shores up the weaknesses in farming and tower killing that AP Kat has. I don't think it really gets mentioned too often in the AP vs. AD Kat debates so I'm curious what others think. AP Kats usually just get Rylai's and then some survivability. Interestingly though, Lichbane is a huge deal on Akali, every half decent one I've seen goes Rylai's + Rageblade + Lichbane (not sure on the order). | ||
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Orpheos
United States1663 Posts
On July 23 2010 05:23 Mogwai wrote: AP Kats usually just get Rylai's and then some survivability. Interestingly though, Lichbane is a huge deal on Akali, every half decent one I've seen goes Rylai's + Rageblade + Lichbane (not sure on the order). my issue with lichbane is that it costs a whole butt ton of gold. so i feel like you should get it after youve built up a decent amount of AP. but at that point it feels like a win more kinda thing, or there may be better stuff to get. | ||
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Chrispy
Canada5878 Posts
Right clicking your runes on your rune page automatically takes them off your page, and double clicking your runes on the list puts them on to your page. A lot less silly than dragging them around. So desperate for new rune pages though... | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On July 23 2010 05:26 Chrispy wrote: Cool thing I just found out that maybe everyone already knows: Right clicking your runes on your rune page automatically takes them off your page, and double clicking your runes on the list puts them on to your page. A lot less silly than dragging them around. So desperate for new rune pages though... wait, this isn't well known? you can right click them on the list to put them on the page too. christ, don't tell me people were still dragging and dropping all this time... | ||
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Chrispy
Canada5878 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On July 23 2010 05:26 Orpheos wrote: my issue with lichbane is that it costs a whole butt ton of gold. so i feel like you should get it after youve built up a decent amount of AP. but at that point it feels like a win more kinda thing, or there may be better stuff to get. I think the biggest issue with it on Kat is that her CDs aren't low enough to trigger it enough. Not sure though. | ||
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