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On July 16 2010 20:14 GranDim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 19:58 redtooth wrote:
also, you'd be surprised what being good mannered does to teammates. the new and improved inept is soooo GM/encouraging (LOL) and i've yet to see a team truly fall apart or anybody not listen to his orders. it also prevents people from ragequitting too. At the opposite, I know a few highish Elo, Bich comes to mind right now, who alway try to boss people around way too much and that leads to falling apart/massive chat spam while everyone involved ignore the game. They are also the ones that QQ the most when they lose. that's why they lose haha. we played reginald's team and they fell apart pretty fast. xpecial's team seemed to implode as well after i got FB on him. bossy =/= leadership
On July 16 2010 20:24 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 19:58 redtooth wrote:
also, you'd be surprised what being good mannered does to teammates. the new and improved inept is soooo GM/encouraging (LOL) and i've yet to see a team truly fall apart or anybody not listen to his orders. it also prevents people from ragequitting too. It helps that he's #2 ranked on solo queue lolol. we've yet to run into a single person who recognized our names from our positions in ladder. the only people who knew who we were are people who we knew from before through unranked games.
i'm gonna be out of town today and half of tomorrow. i wonder how far i'll drop down in ranking for just not playing 1 day. it's so cutthroat right now haha.
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So, it seems in my absence, people still haven't understood the fact that teams need a tank. I haven't managed to play any of the new heroes yet, because it always falls to me to pick the tank, cos no one else will, even if I make my pick first..
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![[image loading]](http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4131/lolrcn.jpg)
had to share this with you guys. thought it was pretty funny
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On July 16 2010 20:55 Infie wrote:had to share this with you guys. thought it was pretty funny
Wow... I've had mine too. One guy wanted to get XZ at all costs but apparently he thought ban would only apply to the opposite team or there couldn't be duplicate characters, fact of the matter he banned XZ and was like "WTF WHY CAN I NOT PLAY IT", we even tried to explain that to him but his answer was something along the lines of "IF THIS WAT IS I AM PENIS?"
Got to love euro servers, all the eastern europeans who don't speak english...
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Lol. Was that a bit of reverse psychology there? Or was he genuinely expecting people to not ban the champs he wants to play?
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On July 16 2010 21:13 jtype wrote:
Lol. Was that a bit of reverse psychology there? Or was he genuinely expecting people to not ban the champs he wants to play?
It looks like his teammate banned the chars he wanted to play.
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Yea lol, as soon as I posted that I realised that that must have been in team-chat only. Back when I was last playing we had to do all the picks and bans in practice mode and would have to avoid all-chat for comments like that.
That is pretty funny tho.
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On July 16 2010 16:23 GnaR wrote:
I just started playing LoL for a good two days now, and I am hooked. I've been playing Sivir with a build I found (I'll link if I can find it again) that seemed pretty solid to my newb self. I mainly try and solo mid lane but actually have had some nice games recently as far as kills go with 8-1 and 12-5 and ~220 minion kills. I put a heavy focus on Ricochet and Spell Shield at the start of the game and will pick up Spiral Blade when I feel the enemy is able to put out a little pressure.
Vampiric Scepter -> Emblem of Valour + Recurve Bow -> Stark's Fervor
Berserk Greaves
B.F. Sword -> Elixir of Agility -> Pickaxe -> Cloak of Agility -> Infinity Edge
My question is, what summoner spells would compliment this well? I decided to use Clarity and Teleport. I've never seen anyone else use Clarity though.. so I don't really know if I'm screwing up or not. I was using Teleport and Exhaust, but I found I didn't use Exhaust often since Spell Shield seems too get me out of most sticky situations. With Clarity's ability to give me a full mana bar with a short cooldown and teleport's mobility I feel the combo works great to keep up the pressure. Any thoughts?
This build is pretty bad, to be honest. I posted a guide on Sivir a while back in this thread (TL search should be able to find it). You can build Sivir 6xboots and still win against weaker players, because one of the biggest issues at lower ELOs is not knowing when to be aggressive, and Sivir is brilliant at exploiting that. Once you start running into more aggressive bursters mid (Annie is tolerable, Kat is nigh-impossible, Pantheon is(/was?) a disaster) your build and play need to be really fine-tuned.
As for summoner spells: no on clarity, use runes + doran's ring for mana regen. Also remember to emphasize boomerang blade on odd levels, and de-emphasize it on even levels, to save mana (this is when it's most efficient in terms of mana/percent-of-opponent-hp).
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I think most people in this game still lose because they really lack a plan for winning.
This game's strategy is a ton like the basic strategies used for starcraft but the planning is not always so clearcut.
To anyone thats new or keeps losing ask yourself these questions:
1) when do i plan to win? Am i trying to win in 15 minutes, 25 minutes, or 60 minutes?
2) How am i actively trying to achieve this goal?
3) What stops me from being able to do what i want to do?
Once you figure out the answers you should be able to plan a better game out.
As an example, most of the games I play tend to end around the 25-30 minute mark. I rune/mastery/build for a very strong early game that I use to snowball into the middle and end it around 30 mins. I do not typically play any late game compositions that require 30-40 minutes of farming and back and forth pushing to win.
As a result my items tend to be focused on an early advantage and build up to a strong late game ( read my kayle guide and you'll see why)
An example of something not do to: don't aim for end game items early unless you have a significant amount of stalling or can significantly outplay your lane. If you're saving a ton of gold and getting zoned out of EXP in your lane it doesn't matter how long it takes to get the item, you're probably not going to win
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Okay, i just wanted to ask this because it's been really bothering me. Is it ever viable to push (or i'd say dive) an inhibitor, starting at about the halfway mark, while their entire team is alive? I had a sivir teammate that insisted we had to do this over and over again because he said we couldn't win teammate fights. Hard to believe, since we had more kills. Honestly, it seemed the only reason we couldn't win team fights was because sivir was never helping. In any case, i ended up going from being like 10/2 to being 10/6, because we kept diving in, and then we lost, when i thought we had the advantage.
edit: never try rush posting because your LoL game just started T.T
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On July 16 2010 20:14 GranDim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 13:43 Phrost wrote:Here's my next novel on Kayle: Angel Wings and Flame Swords: Winning games in ranked solo queue: + Show Spoiler +
General:
Q is a huge nuke that increases the damage that the target takes in addition to slowing. Use this to focus someone down and whenever possible continue to attack the person you nuked.
W is a heal with a move speed bonus. You can use this for longetivity or for chasing as 1 rank is sufficient for that most of the time.
E is a big part of your mid game and works amazingly well in combo with Q. It does a split of physical and magical damage thus forcing the enemy to get dual resistances to reduce the damage.
R is now on a short cooldown with a very short duration. A well timed ult can turn a gank around in a huge way or be used to bait a ton of damage.
Setup:
Runes - Mpen in marks, mp5 per level seals, ap per level glyph, flat HP quintessences.
Mastery - 9/21/0, same as my Morgana guide.
Summoner spells - Ghost / Ignite or Cleanse/ Ghost if the enemy team has a ton of powerful stuns.
Champion skills - > QEQW then R>Q>E>W
Items -
Start - Doran's ring, hp potion
first trip to base - basic boots, blasting wand or meki pendant, 2-3 health potions
2nd trip to base - Berserker Greaves (or if there is a lot of cc merc treads, but later), blasting wand or meki pendant (whichever you didn't already get), stinger if you can afford it
Eventually you'll want to finish a Guinsoo's rageblade then Nashor's Tooth. After those 4 items the game should be close to over but if it's not I suggest getting hextech gunblade started because you're probably facing some pretty tanky champions that you'll need the lifesteal to beat.
Strategy:
By picking all of these tanky masteries, hp quints, and doran's ring, you will start with a ton of hp (something around just shy of 800) at level 1 and make it very easy to hold your ground. If you're confident in the damage exchange throw a Q at the enemy and take a few whacks then back away. Once you hit level 2 you can do some serious hurt with a Q followed by E activation and just going to town on an enemy champion. Most solo-mids will take about 1/4 to 1/3 of their HP with Q and a single auto attack during E. Use this to your advantage and if your opponent gets too cocky throw ignite on him and win. So far I've tested this against ashe, katarina, pantheon, and ezreal with great success. The damage output of most low level champions is too low to beat the burst of kayle. Once you have the hp lead you can continue to dominate the lane by last hitting with ease. At level 6 if you still haven't killed them then you should be able to save up enough mana to tower dive with ease.
Generally I'd say try to get red and blue buffs whenever possible. With blue buff and nashor's tooth your spells are almost max CDR so E comes off CD nearly as its effect wears off.
Make good use of kiting with kayle's superior move speed with W and her slow. You should never get killed by most melee champions.
Use Kayle's ult to turn the tide of a battle by making an enemy waste as much damage as possible. You can also use it to surprise an opponent when theyre trying to 1v1 you in the mid game.
Try not to be a dick and ks people once you have your 4 main items. She doesn't gain much from additional gold.
I differentiate from your build with 9-0-21 mastery cdr in glyph Zhonya's after Guinsoo/Nashor My first 4-5 levels skill ups are totally based on the lane but after that its usually R>E>W>Q. I find that R gives better lane control and farming than Q and low AP low level W just doesn't do anything. Q doesn't get much leveling aside from more damage and its mana cost increase per level. Also late game I don't need Golem to get CRD near capped.
if you are playing dps kayle Q is always better than E. you can say all it gives is more damage, but it gives a heck of alot more damage per level than E does and it increases the subsequent damage you do to the person you hit with it. plus it makes your damage more bursty, which is great for poking. the only benefit to E is easier(not faster) farming, but you really shouldnt be doing that until late game because early laning you should not be pushing the creeps, and you should be saving mana for heals and Q harass.
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On July 16 2010 19:53 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 14:52 G0dly wrote:On July 16 2010 10:41 Shikyo wrote:
okay getting my ass kicked in solo q -_
EDIT: question to all the better players out there: When I'm soloing mid and am kind of owning it in the way that I have about double their minion kills but can't really actually kill the mid opponent and both the other lanes are getting owned, what am I supposed to do? In these games I've mostly just kept farming mid but that doesn't seem to work out so well, then I end the game with something like 1-2-0 while our team is 3-25 or something and I really feel like I could have done something better. Whenever I actually have ganked a sidelane in trouble my allies would run away and not see me coming or whatever then I get owned 2v1 while my mid tower gets destroyed.
Is there really nothing I can in this situation? lol yeah I'm in the same boat most times I get the kill mid, go b to buy, then go to gank but while that's happening the other lanes are feeding. I go to try to help them but by then the enemy champs in that lane have like 2/3 kills each from my teammates and are the same lvl as me. Plus their mid is back again, so I have to return mid. My teammates are underfed and underleveled, their whole team is higher leveled and itemized, so even when we do have 5 v 5 teamfights (if there isn't a leaver/afk that is) the exchange is in their favor. Game will end maybe 20-5 in about 20-25 min. I've run into this scenario every single time I've solo queued ranked. basically I need to l2carry better? I feel like there's something that I'm missing that I need to learn in order to start winning. man i'm curious... when you guys say you "kill mid", how badly are you winning? most of the time i don't even pull THAT much ahead and (not to be arrogant or anything) i'm pretty sure i do mid better than most of you. honestly, like utahime said earlier, i think you guys are exaggerating/romanticizing how good you are compared to the rest of your team and how hard you "carry" your bad solo-que team. also, the key to winning in solo-que seems to be good leadership and communication skills. anybody can be a star with their kdr but not many can guide and lead their teammates to do the right thing over and over again. that means directing when to dragon, when to push, when to back, pointing out when someone is out of position, organizing ganks, etc etc. if you stay silent and KS the whole game then of course you're going to lose to the other team that has as much better leader.
Normally it's like me being one level ahead and having nearly double the minion kills. That means I'd be clearly winning the lane, but I don't really know what to do with it.
It's one of the biggest problems I have with my solo mid :/
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yea thats one of the bigger reasons why im still a newb. i dont know when to stop laning and i dont know when to go back to farming.
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On July 16 2010 22:13 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 19:53 redtooth wrote:On July 16 2010 14:52 G0dly wrote:On July 16 2010 10:41 Shikyo wrote:
okay getting my ass kicked in solo q -_
EDIT: question to all the better players out there: When I'm soloing mid and am kind of owning it in the way that I have about double their minion kills but can't really actually kill the mid opponent and both the other lanes are getting owned, what am I supposed to do? In these games I've mostly just kept farming mid but that doesn't seem to work out so well, then I end the game with something like 1-2-0 while our team is 3-25 or something and I really feel like I could have done something better. Whenever I actually have ganked a sidelane in trouble my allies would run away and not see me coming or whatever then I get owned 2v1 while my mid tower gets destroyed.
Is there really nothing I can in this situation? lol yeah I'm in the same boat most times I get the kill mid, go b to buy, then go to gank but while that's happening the other lanes are feeding. I go to try to help them but by then the enemy champs in that lane have like 2/3 kills each from my teammates and are the same lvl as me. Plus their mid is back again, so I have to return mid. My teammates are underfed and underleveled, their whole team is higher leveled and itemized, so even when we do have 5 v 5 teamfights (if there isn't a leaver/afk that is) the exchange is in their favor. Game will end maybe 20-5 in about 20-25 min. I've run into this scenario every single time I've solo queued ranked. basically I need to l2carry better? I feel like there's something that I'm missing that I need to learn in order to start winning. man i'm curious... when you guys say you "kill mid", how badly are you winning? most of the time i don't even pull THAT much ahead and (not to be arrogant or anything) i'm pretty sure i do mid better than most of you. honestly, like utahime said earlier, i think you guys are exaggerating/romanticizing how good you are compared to the rest of your team and how hard you "carry" your bad solo-que team. also, the key to winning in solo-que seems to be good leadership and communication skills. anybody can be a star with their kdr but not many can guide and lead their teammates to do the right thing over and over again. that means directing when to dragon, when to push, when to back, pointing out when someone is out of position, organizing ganks, etc etc. if you stay silent and KS the whole game then of course you're going to lose to the other team that has as much better leader. Normally it's like me being one level ahead and having nearly double the minion kills. That means I'd be clearly winning the lane, but I don't really know what to do with it. It's one of the biggest problems I have with my solo mid :/
No that just means you're slightly ahead.
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On July 16 2010 22:31 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 22:13 Shikyo wrote:On July 16 2010 19:53 redtooth wrote:On July 16 2010 14:52 G0dly wrote:On July 16 2010 10:41 Shikyo wrote:
okay getting my ass kicked in solo q -_
EDIT: question to all the better players out there: When I'm soloing mid and am kind of owning it in the way that I have about double their minion kills but can't really actually kill the mid opponent and both the other lanes are getting owned, what am I supposed to do? In these games I've mostly just kept farming mid but that doesn't seem to work out so well, then I end the game with something like 1-2-0 while our team is 3-25 or something and I really feel like I could have done something better. Whenever I actually have ganked a sidelane in trouble my allies would run away and not see me coming or whatever then I get owned 2v1 while my mid tower gets destroyed.
Is there really nothing I can in this situation? lol yeah I'm in the same boat most times I get the kill mid, go b to buy, then go to gank but while that's happening the other lanes are feeding. I go to try to help them but by then the enemy champs in that lane have like 2/3 kills each from my teammates and are the same lvl as me. Plus their mid is back again, so I have to return mid. My teammates are underfed and underleveled, their whole team is higher leveled and itemized, so even when we do have 5 v 5 teamfights (if there isn't a leaver/afk that is) the exchange is in their favor. Game will end maybe 20-5 in about 20-25 min. I've run into this scenario every single time I've solo queued ranked. basically I need to l2carry better? I feel like there's something that I'm missing that I need to learn in order to start winning. man i'm curious... when you guys say you "kill mid", how badly are you winning? most of the time i don't even pull THAT much ahead and (not to be arrogant or anything) i'm pretty sure i do mid better than most of you. honestly, like utahime said earlier, i think you guys are exaggerating/romanticizing how good you are compared to the rest of your team and how hard you "carry" your bad solo-que team. also, the key to winning in solo-que seems to be good leadership and communication skills. anybody can be a star with their kdr but not many can guide and lead their teammates to do the right thing over and over again. that means directing when to dragon, when to push, when to back, pointing out when someone is out of position, organizing ganks, etc etc. if you stay silent and KS the whole game then of course you're going to lose to the other team that has as much better leader. Normally it's like me being one level ahead and having nearly double the minion kills. That means I'd be clearly winning the lane, but I don't really know what to do with it. It's one of the biggest problems I have with my solo mid :/ No that just means you're slightly ahead.
That's being slightly ahead? hmm weird
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On July 16 2010 22:35 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 22:31 Southlight wrote:On July 16 2010 22:13 Shikyo wrote:On July 16 2010 19:53 redtooth wrote:On July 16 2010 14:52 G0dly wrote:On July 16 2010 10:41 Shikyo wrote:
okay getting my ass kicked in solo q -_
EDIT: question to all the better players out there: When I'm soloing mid and am kind of owning it in the way that I have about double their minion kills but can't really actually kill the mid opponent and both the other lanes are getting owned, what am I supposed to do? In these games I've mostly just kept farming mid but that doesn't seem to work out so well, then I end the game with something like 1-2-0 while our team is 3-25 or something and I really feel like I could have done something better. Whenever I actually have ganked a sidelane in trouble my allies would run away and not see me coming or whatever then I get owned 2v1 while my mid tower gets destroyed.
Is there really nothing I can in this situation? lol yeah I'm in the same boat most times I get the kill mid, go b to buy, then go to gank but while that's happening the other lanes are feeding. I go to try to help them but by then the enemy champs in that lane have like 2/3 kills each from my teammates and are the same lvl as me. Plus their mid is back again, so I have to return mid. My teammates are underfed and underleveled, their whole team is higher leveled and itemized, so even when we do have 5 v 5 teamfights (if there isn't a leaver/afk that is) the exchange is in their favor. Game will end maybe 20-5 in about 20-25 min. I've run into this scenario every single time I've solo queued ranked. basically I need to l2carry better? I feel like there's something that I'm missing that I need to learn in order to start winning. man i'm curious... when you guys say you "kill mid", how badly are you winning? most of the time i don't even pull THAT much ahead and (not to be arrogant or anything) i'm pretty sure i do mid better than most of you. honestly, like utahime said earlier, i think you guys are exaggerating/romanticizing how good you are compared to the rest of your team and how hard you "carry" your bad solo-que team. also, the key to winning in solo-que seems to be good leadership and communication skills. anybody can be a star with their kdr but not many can guide and lead their teammates to do the right thing over and over again. that means directing when to dragon, when to push, when to back, pointing out when someone is out of position, organizing ganks, etc etc. if you stay silent and KS the whole game then of course you're going to lose to the other team that has as much better leader. Normally it's like me being one level ahead and having nearly double the minion kills. That means I'd be clearly winning the lane, but I don't really know what to do with it. It's one of the biggest problems I have with my solo mid :/ No that just means you're slightly ahead. That's being slightly ahead? hmm weird
It's not like you're going to win the game from there, getting 1 tower would be good, getting 2 would mean your opponents are too bad to switch and otherwise there's really not much you can accomplish from soloing mid.
And idk, I mean, you should farm till midgame and then possibly try to jump around and help a lane I don't think what you would be trying to accomplish otherwise.
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Yea, I thought that part of the main reason for wanting to solo mid was (and should be) to gain an early level advantage on the other two lanes so that you can assist in early ganking and generally help your team gain momentum.
Killing the opposing solo is just a bonus really. Taking down mid tower early is great, but I think it's more beneficial in the long run to just assist your team by moving around and helping them as soon as you can. But not at the expense of your own mid tower, of course.
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got some epic games today, my annie mid go 16-1-14 at 16 mins mark, we got all 3 lanes inhibitors + baron at 20 mins (not losing more than 2 towers).
at 27 mins, we lost!
xin + amumu just clean up the creeps soooo fast that their is no way we can push in, partly bc the Cho stayed behind but really, in that kind of situation 4v5 should be enough to win the game. I know Xin is not imba but some changes should be made to make him suit with the game moar. currently he is like an upgraded Yi with most spells are better.
I also got a game where we have 3 tanks + ashe + me(sivir) => no magic pen. the enemies built up armor and get much moar kills than us (like 40-28 smthing). late game when they try to psuh up, i tele to bot and used my ulti to take out 2 towers + inhibitor with creep. That is not back door but strategy pushing and our team won just bc of that. lots of people prefer to it as back door and cheesy and i, personally, also hate it but its a part of the game!
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Hahahahaha I played a hilarious game yesterday. Ranked solo queue at low ELO is just plain silly!
So the ENTIRE enemy team picks physical damage carries. I mean, Yi, Garren, Ashe, tristana, and trynd. No joke. I was playing mordekaiser. I built thornmail and 3 sunfire cloaks.
I was basically invincible.
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On July 16 2010 22:05 Orpheos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 20:14 GranDim wrote:On July 16 2010 13:43 Phrost wrote:Here's my next novel on Kayle: Angel Wings and Flame Swords: Winning games in ranked solo queue: + Show Spoiler +
General:
Q is a huge nuke that increases the damage that the target takes in addition to slowing. Use this to focus someone down and whenever possible continue to attack the person you nuked.
W is a heal with a move speed bonus. You can use this for longetivity or for chasing as 1 rank is sufficient for that most of the time.
E is a big part of your mid game and works amazingly well in combo with Q. It does a split of physical and magical damage thus forcing the enemy to get dual resistances to reduce the damage.
R is now on a short cooldown with a very short duration. A well timed ult can turn a gank around in a huge way or be used to bait a ton of damage.
Setup:
Runes - Mpen in marks, mp5 per level seals, ap per level glyph, flat HP quintessences.
Mastery - 9/21/0, same as my Morgana guide.
Summoner spells - Ghost / Ignite or Cleanse/ Ghost if the enemy team has a ton of powerful stuns.
Champion skills - > QEQW then R>Q>E>W
Items -
Start - Doran's ring, hp potion
first trip to base - basic boots, blasting wand or meki pendant, 2-3 health potions
2nd trip to base - Berserker Greaves (or if there is a lot of cc merc treads, but later), blasting wand or meki pendant (whichever you didn't already get), stinger if you can afford it
Eventually you'll want to finish a Guinsoo's rageblade then Nashor's Tooth. After those 4 items the game should be close to over but if it's not I suggest getting hextech gunblade started because you're probably facing some pretty tanky champions that you'll need the lifesteal to beat.
Strategy:
By picking all of these tanky masteries, hp quints, and doran's ring, you will start with a ton of hp (something around just shy of 800) at level 1 and make it very easy to hold your ground. If you're confident in the damage exchange throw a Q at the enemy and take a few whacks then back away. Once you hit level 2 you can do some serious hurt with a Q followed by E activation and just going to town on an enemy champion. Most solo-mids will take about 1/4 to 1/3 of their HP with Q and a single auto attack during E. Use this to your advantage and if your opponent gets too cocky throw ignite on him and win. So far I've tested this against ashe, katarina, pantheon, and ezreal with great success. The damage output of most low level champions is too low to beat the burst of kayle. Once you have the hp lead you can continue to dominate the lane by last hitting with ease. At level 6 if you still haven't killed them then you should be able to save up enough mana to tower dive with ease.
Generally I'd say try to get red and blue buffs whenever possible. With blue buff and nashor's tooth your spells are almost max CDR so E comes off CD nearly as its effect wears off.
Make good use of kiting with kayle's superior move speed with W and her slow. You should never get killed by most melee champions.
Use Kayle's ult to turn the tide of a battle by making an enemy waste as much damage as possible. You can also use it to surprise an opponent when theyre trying to 1v1 you in the mid game.
Try not to be a dick and ks people once you have your 4 main items. She doesn't gain much from additional gold.
I differentiate from your build with 9-0-21 mastery cdr in glyph Zhonya's after Guinsoo/Nashor My first 4-5 levels skill ups are totally based on the lane but after that its usually R>E>W>Q. I find that R gives better lane control and farming than Q and low AP low level W just doesn't do anything. Q doesn't get much leveling aside from more damage and its mana cost increase per level. Also late game I don't need Golem to get CRD near capped. if you are playing dps kayle Q is always better than E. you can say all it gives is more damage, but it gives a heck of alot more damage per level than E does and it increases the subsequent damage you do to the person you hit with it. plus it makes your damage more bursty, which is great for poking. the only benefit to E is easier(not faster) farming, but you really shouldnt be doing that until late game because early laning you should not be pushing the creeps, and you should be saving mana for heals and Q harass.
As I said I will put the first 5 skills in what the lane dictate. There are situations where having a strong E is definitly better(Mord, Heimer, most 1v2). If the lane can be controlled by burst than Q takes priority until 6.
I havn't run the math but I think that once you get Guinsoo E will outpace Q in terms of dps.
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EPT
