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United States37500 Posts
On July 17 2010 01:45 travis wrote:
so when im ashe, and im laning with someone else
do you think its better to
1.) let the other guy last hit mobs in front, while i take down mobs in back with autoattack
or
2.) use synergy with other player and we both target same creeps so that one of us tends to get the last hit
or
3.) just compete for last hits with the other player
basically, it can be annoying for me to lane with someone else(esp someone good at last hitting) when im ashe. i've mostly been trying to do #1, or #2 if i can't move that far forward. what do you guys think?
i guess there could be a
4.) focus more on hitting opponents than getting last hits. but with ashe that seems quite dangerous.
Uh, 3? Anything else is probably making laning phase more complicated than it should be. However if you have a distinct lane advantage (e.g. 2 ranged vs 2 melee), you should focus on zoning the enemy away from creeps first.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On July 17 2010 01:47 Southlight wrote:
Uh, it's playstyle, how dependant your playstyle is on money, what your lane partner is, relative laning strength compared top opponents, etc.. I tend to go for #4 if I can, but I play very aggressive at the expense of farming. You can do perfectly fine playing like a selfish, greedy whore, too. I can't tell you which is better, but probably playing like a selfish, greedy whore, on Ashe.
Edit:
I disagree, Brees. She makes a fine support/lane dominator. Ezreal/Ashe lane is always a good bet to gimp at least one hero (two if you get a 2v2 as ideal), as is Soraka/Ashe, and she works well in a pushing team even without money (esp. with a Heimer etc.).
denying a lane isnt worth a 3v5 teamfight until lategame
just play a real support character if you want to deny, janna/taric or any other gay combo can do the same.
carries rely on their level advantage of their abilities to stay relevant early/mid game. without the levels and no items they are simply a wasted slot.
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well the problem is, as ashe...
i need items lol
and depending upon who the other champion is, there is a pretty high chance they will be able to last hit before i can last hit. ashe's arrows don't move that fast and generally i have to be farther back than the champion im laning with, and ashe really doesn't do all that much damage at start it seems. like i've been laning with shen and kennen both lately and they both take almost all the last hits, because they do more damage than i do
so i end up getting about 1/4 or 1/3 the last hits of my opponent and end up quite poor, at least thats how it feels
and this is disappointing because im actually quite good at last hitting when im solo
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It really depends on what the lane dynamic is. Some champs like Singed don't need creeps early because they'll farm like 100 in 10 minutes while doing their job during the midgame. Some champs are really dependent on early farm, like Tristana, and should basically be given priority all game. Some champs get their money through kills, like Panth and Shaco.
So it depends on your lane and it depends on theirs. Sometimes it's worth it to get almost no creeps if it means denying one or two farm-dependent champs like Trist or Ashe so that they're useless midgame when they have to snowball.
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United States37500 Posts
I think Ashe is fine as a laner. Her skills (the usual ulti initiation and well timed hawk scouts) compliment well to a carry Ez in a 5v5 situation. So she won't be 3 levels ahead of the pack but she can still rice open lane very easily and catch up on gold.
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ok so basically, don't worry about it and catch up on money later
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On July 17 2010 01:54 NeoIllusions wrote:
I think Ashe is fine as a laner. Her skills (the usual ulti initiation and well timed hawk scouts) compliment well to a carry Ez in a 5v5 situation. So she won't be 3 levels ahead of the pack but she can still rice open lane very easily and catch up on gold.
Pretty much.
Denying a lane to cause a 3v5 what? If you gimp two heroes with Ashe, who can push people out of a lane and still last hit (because she has range) then it's a great move, IMO. You'll obviously be slightly less farmed than if you were to have focused fully on last-hitting, but who cares? ECA and Frost are great supports for a carry. If you play her AS a carry (or are expected to carry) then I can see playing with last-hitting being second priority turning into more of a mess, but meh.
Edit:
Wait I see the problem.
Yeah, Brees sees Ashe as a carry.
I see/play her as a support to a real carry.
There you go.
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Solo queue sometimes makes me happy.... and sometimes makes me hate my life.
0-11 ashe on our team. Awesome.
2-8 kogmaw
Even my morde can't carry that shit. T_T;
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United States37500 Posts
On July 17 2010 01:56 travis wrote:
ok so basically, don't worry about it and catch up on money later
Midgame phase, just look for lanes with 2+ waves and go there asap and volley a few times. Just make sure that your team knows you're ricing a little bit and they don't engage without you. At worst, you can still shoot in an ulti if they end up fighting at a tower.
Ashe is playable as a "support" simply because of volley. Yes, she needs to rice to be effective but having her lane doesn't gimp her as much, if we compare it to a Trist or Corki laning. 5v5 sieging a tower, give Ashe blue and let her volley away. It's just as annoying as if Janna was siege and spamming Q all day.
A side note, solo Ashe, I'd more or less rush straight Infinity Edge, getting BF sword asap. If you're laning as Ashe, get a Brutalizer first. Lower CD and some additional damage early on will help your laning phase.
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On July 17 2010 02:01 NeoIllusions wrote:
Ashe is playable as a "support" simply because of volley.
And ECA, one of the best initiating/catcher skills in the game, especially with people suddenly becoming too scared to take Cleanse.
Edit:
By the way Trist side-lane is okay if you have a strong, dominating mid, like Kat, to ease up on Trist's early/mid-game weakness. You obviously need to have a lane partner that's less reliant on gold (like Alistar) but she farms so fast she's fine as a second-fiddle for a decent portion of the early game, IMO.
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On July 17 2010 01:59 Haemonculus wrote:
Solo queue sometimes makes me happy.... and sometimes makes me hate my life.
0-11 ashe on our team. Awesome.
2-8 kogmaw
Even my morde can't carry that shit. T_T;
I know the feeling, had a Tris in my last game yesterday cried until we let him have middle then died 6-7 times to Nunu, he ended up going 2-12-1 THEN tried to say something about me going 1-3-0. Who would have guessed trying to fight 2 well feed champions 2-3 levels higher then me wouldn't end well? Also he was completely unable to call mia's or just had the reaction time of a dead cat. But of course he comes back at me with the bulletproof reply "Its just a game" Yes! even more of a reason to not be terrabad.
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Hey Southlight, any thoughts on Kassadin builds post-patch? I just picked him up and am having a hard time balancing mana vs. AP. (Sorry if you've posted your thoughts already, this thread has been so busy it's impossible to find stuff).
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Flat Energy Regen vs Flat HP Quints on Shen (and Kennen) - which is better?
I'm using flat energy right now. I run max def. masteries and always, always open Doran's Shield + HP Pot, which makes it pretty easy for me to be aggressive in lane, the extra 90 HP would help. BUT I also love to spam my skills, the extra vorpal and 1 point early feint I can use with the energy regen will make up for that HP.
Late game, the 90 HP is barely noticeable, but with energy regen runes + golem buff I can dashvorpalfeint to my heart's content.
What do you pros say?
(I also run MPen // Energy Regen plvl // CDRplvl)
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On July 17 2010 02:23 Kultcher wrote:
Hey Southlight, any thoughts on Kassadin builds post-patch? I just picked him up and am having a hard time balancing mana vs. AP. (Sorry if you've posted your thoughts already, this thread has been so busy it's impossible to find stuff).
I still run Soulstealer into GA, I don't pick up W for a while :p I just have to be more frugal with mana/more assertive taking golem.
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United States37500 Posts
On July 17 2010 02:33 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2010 02:23 Kultcher wrote:
Hey Southlight, any thoughts on Kassadin builds post-patch? I just picked him up and am having a hard time balancing mana vs. AP. (Sorry if you've posted your thoughts already, this thread has been so busy it's impossible to find stuff). I still run Soulstealer into GA, I don't pick up W for a while :p I just have to be more frugal with mana/more assertive taking golem.
So you finally manned up and stopped getting tear I see.
I approve.
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More like I became obsessed with GA, lol!
Edit:
On a different note, I lost to xdog's warwick this morning, AGAIN! I haven't beaten him in months now  My team kept going ZOMG WARWICK ALONE and getting baited into attacking xdog + GA + Zil's ult ggggggggggggggggggggggg
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Lol Im having fun smurfing with eve again. Team was raging hard at my pick. I ended up 14-1-14, 20 stack mejais. That shut them up lol.
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On July 16 2010 20:14 GranDim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 13:43 Phrost wrote:Here's my next novel on Kayle: Angel Wings and Flame Swords: Winning games in ranked solo queue: + Show Spoiler +
General:
Q is a huge nuke that increases the damage that the target takes in addition to slowing. Use this to focus someone down and whenever possible continue to attack the person you nuked.
W is a heal with a move speed bonus. You can use this for longetivity or for chasing as 1 rank is sufficient for that most of the time.
E is a big part of your mid game and works amazingly well in combo with Q. It does a split of physical and magical damage thus forcing the enemy to get dual resistances to reduce the damage.
R is now on a short cooldown with a very short duration. A well timed ult can turn a gank around in a huge way or be used to bait a ton of damage.
Setup:
Runes - Mpen in marks, mp5 per level seals, ap per level glyph, flat HP quintessences.
Mastery - 9/21/0, same as my Morgana guide.
Summoner spells - Ghost / Ignite or Cleanse/ Ghost if the enemy team has a ton of powerful stuns.
Champion skills - > QEQW then R>Q>E>W
Items -
Start - Doran's ring, hp potion
first trip to base - basic boots, blasting wand or meki pendant, 2-3 health potions
2nd trip to base - Berserker Greaves (or if there is a lot of cc merc treads, but later), blasting wand or meki pendant (whichever you didn't already get), stinger if you can afford it
Eventually you'll want to finish a Guinsoo's rageblade then Nashor's Tooth. After those 4 items the game should be close to over but if it's not I suggest getting hextech gunblade started because you're probably facing some pretty tanky champions that you'll need the lifesteal to beat.
Strategy:
By picking all of these tanky masteries, hp quints, and doran's ring, you will start with a ton of hp (something around just shy of 800) at level 1 and make it very easy to hold your ground. If you're confident in the damage exchange throw a Q at the enemy and take a few whacks then back away. Once you hit level 2 you can do some serious hurt with a Q followed by E activation and just going to town on an enemy champion. Most solo-mids will take about 1/4 to 1/3 of their HP with Q and a single auto attack during E. Use this to your advantage and if your opponent gets too cocky throw ignite on him and win. So far I've tested this against ashe, katarina, pantheon, and ezreal with great success. The damage output of most low level champions is too low to beat the burst of kayle. Once you have the hp lead you can continue to dominate the lane by last hitting with ease. At level 6 if you still haven't killed them then you should be able to save up enough mana to tower dive with ease.
Generally I'd say try to get red and blue buffs whenever possible. With blue buff and nashor's tooth your spells are almost max CDR so E comes off CD nearly as its effect wears off.
Make good use of kiting with kayle's superior move speed with W and her slow. You should never get killed by most melee champions.
Use Kayle's ult to turn the tide of a battle by making an enemy waste as much damage as possible. You can also use it to surprise an opponent when theyre trying to 1v1 you in the mid game.
Try not to be a dick and ks people once you have your 4 main items. She doesn't gain much from additional gold.
I differentiate from your build with 9-0-21 mastery cdr in glyph Zhonya's after Guinsoo/Nashor My first 4-5 levels skill ups are totally based on the lane but after that its usually R>E>W>Q. I find that R gives better lane control and farming than Q and low AP low level W just doesn't do anything. Q doesn't get much leveling aside from more damage and its mana cost increase per level. Also late game I don't need Golem to get CRD near capped. Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 19:58 redtooth wrote:
also, you'd be surprised what being good mannered does to teammates. the new and improved inept is soooo GM/encouraging (LOL) and i've yet to see a team truly fall apart or anybody not listen to his orders. it also prevents people from ragequitting too. At the opposite, I know a few highish Elo, Bich comes to mind right now, who alway try to boss people around way too much and that leads to falling apart/massive chat spam while everyone involved ignore the game. They are also the ones that QQ the most when they lose. Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 19:59 Madkipz wrote:
Xin Zhao feels kinda lackluster, and id state that his jungling is way below that of other master junglers and a warwick can easily shut him out from most creeps unless the warwick is caught offguard himself, probably this new heros only redeeming point is that its very hard to escape him once he has ambushed you.
I guess im building this new hero wrong, tried the warwick route, getting cloth armor and building it into madreds but it felt kinda meeh, is green pot the only way he can jungle from lvl 1? Is dash/ult gives him annie like aoe burst(replacing the stun with a slow) and once hes in melee hes still hitting almost has hard as the other melee caries with some wicked CC thrown in.
Bich is high elo? I played with him and one of his friends in solo queue and he wasn't all that great. I just remember his name haha.
He wasn't bossy at all, but maybe because no one on our team fed.
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United States37500 Posts
On July 17 2010 02:40 Southlight wrote:More like I became obsessed with GA, lol! Edit: On a different note, I lost to xdog's warwick this morning, AGAIN! I haven't beaten him in months now My team kept going ZOMG WARWICK ALONE and getting baited into attacking xdog + GA + Zil's ult ggggggggggggggggggggggg
I wonder how much AP you'd get, but I guess Mejai's solves. You really need to snipe well to get those stacks, otherwise you're rather gimped with only 1 AP item. :[ GA is bling bling.
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On July 17 2010 02:48 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2010 02:40 Southlight wrote:More like I became obsessed with GA, lol! Edit: On a different note, I lost to xdog's warwick this morning, AGAIN! I haven't beaten him in months now My team kept going ZOMG WARWICK ALONE and getting baited into attacking xdog + GA + Zil's ult ggggggggggggggggggggggg I wonder how much AP you'd get, but I guess Mejai's solves. You really need to snipe well to get those stacks, otherwise you're rather gimped with only 1 AP item. :[ GA is bling bling.
Oddly, I've never had problems killing/poking despite having minimal AP items, so I really, really don't know. In 10 seconds I'll do at least 1200 damage (minus reduc from MR) without any AP items when both Q and E are maxed. I don't really play Kass with the expectation of nuking people down in 3 shots, I just grind them down with like 5-6 shots, which is why for a while I favoured mana over AP (Tear) and still do perfectly fine with just Mejai. I don't even really need "that many stacks" as long as my team can also output damage. In the end I end up feeling like I'm playing him as a stronger Janna - instead of Tornadoing people I just snare whole clumps of people every 3-5 seconds (depending on CDReduc) or just teleporting into carries and goading them into 1v1s (inefficient use of a carry).
To that end I find GA really important because I'm almost at melee range of most enemy heroes (as I'm always dancing at Pulse range), so I'm an "accessible squishy." And ofc as I start rolling with Mejai their urgency at wanting to take me down rises... it's also nice to have that fast GA so when you teleport behind Twitch and start bashing him, he has to kill you 1.4 times to be rid of you, which is REALLY REALLY inefficient. Plus the bits that make up GA give you crazy amounts of survivability... I dunno.
It's really rare that I've ever found myself pining for more damage. And if I am, the game's usually out of my control :\
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EPT
