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On July 07 2010 05:35 Mogwai wrote:
let me clarify...
if AP Yi does his thing, he alphas for a ton, gets hit a bit, meditates and gets disabled out of meditate, cleanses, meditate is still of CD and he just gets rocked or has to run away with highlander while his team dies.
AD Yi contributes nothing to teamfights short of playing cleanup exceptionally well. Typically, he has to hope his team can more or less break even in a 4v5, then prance in there with highlander and clean up the scraps. I find this role really useless and would rather have an Eve who can at least stun their carry for a couple seconds when push comes to shove.
I dunno, people seem to be all over Yi's nuts since he got buffed, but even in fed form, I find him really forgettable in teamfights.
yeah, personally i think his role is almost empty in teamfight. thats why most people play Yi as a solo pusher and its really anoying as is ms is fast => hard to catch :>
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who needs teamfights when you can hide in base while Yi backdoors his way to victory
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When Yi gets caught and dies and you get pushed 5v4 you'll rage at the stupid Yi for not teamfighting.
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On July 07 2010 05:53 Southlight wrote:
When Yi gets caught and dies and you get pushed 5v4 you'll rage at the stupid Yi for not teamfighting.
Good thing I team fight >.>
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My biggest problem with Yi is that I think Shaco's better at everything he does. Like, quite literally everything...
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noob question: what do you specifically mean with disables? stuns, blinds?
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Season 1 on July 13th, guys!
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yea, like, anything that in some way disables your character
<_<
>_>
I dunno, like, some disables feel like a hard disable on some characters, but useless on others... like, for instance, Fears, Stuns, Knockups, and Taunts always do their job (hard disables), but on the other hand, you have soft disables that screw some people like roots, silences, slows, and blinds, but are weaker on others (blind Annie... who cares?).
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Taunting doesn't stop the fed Tryndamere from 3 shotting you 
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The reason why Yi is overrated:
At low levels people suck at ending games and pushing, so Yi can farm up 2-3 items before combat starts.
Meanwhile:
At higher levels people are better at ending games and pushing, so (after jungle ganking) when Yi comes out with Brutalizer and BF sword he's doing significantly less damage than, say, a Tristana who's gonna farm faster, unless she's laned against Kat or Pantheon, both of whom would have wrecked the game before that point anyways.
And when it comes to jungling, Yi can't actually beat Udyr/Warwick/Shaco, so he has no real jungle control against a proper jungler.
There's a small window of opportunity after jungle ganking phase that Yi has like a Ghostblade and BF Sword that he's pretty tough, but nothing burst damage can't deal with (leaving the can't be slowed aside, I'll happily take a mid-game Yi 1v1 with Kassadin, especially if someone else helps chip in with ~600 damage cuz he'll go down in two cycles). In order to remain relevant Yi's forced to guzzle at least one elixir (Fort) otherwise he simply doesn't have enough HP to do his damage, unless he comes in late to vulture but there're better heroes for this job.
And then late-game you can't balance survivability vs damage on him, so you actually find he goes down to almost everything. For instance, DPS Sion > DPS Yi late-game, which is pretty funny, and sad.
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well, sure, but if they're fed enough to be 3 shotting your shen/rammus, it could be a 4 second stun and it probably wouldn't make a difference.
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Uh, maybe thats a stupid question, but does anyone have some information about when/if we'll get a new free champion selection for this week?
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On July 07 2010 06:11 Loving Memory wrote:
Season 1 on July 13th, guys!
quality first post n TL there... seeing as this was already posted 
anyways, I'm scoping out some other heroes that fit my style of play, so far I have this:
Nasus (current hero)
Mordekaiser
Kassadin
Malzahar
Taric
I have only ever even seen a few mords and 1 nasus, so I have no idea how viable these heroes are, though I've heard good things about taric in teamfight scenarios, which is where I'd really like to shine. I'm not one to go out and be a dps carry when I can ensure a win by being a teamplayer.
Any tips/info on these heroes to help me choose if/when I want to buy them (still going to be saving for 20+ runes for a bit)
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Well people (myself included) have realized the Taric nerf a month ago didn't actually knock him out of viability. As I said a few pages ago he's still the strongest support/tank in the game, and I actually think he's due for another nerf, either to his healing power or to his innate passive mana recovery.
Nasus is one of, if not the best, melee DPS carry hybrid.
Morde is garbage, Malzahar is (until Suppression kicks in) also garbage, and Kassadin has differing opinions but I think he's awesome.
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On July 06 2010 23:15 Mogwai wrote:
i'm pretty much the best pantheon ever and my most recent shift in pantheon setup is running:
0/18/12 masteries (3 armor, 3 magic resist, 3 strength of spirit, 2 defensive mastery, 3 harden skin, 4 veteran's scars, 3 perserverence, 1 haste, 4 awareness, 3 meditation, 1 utility mastery)
Armor Pen on both Marks and Quints, Mp5pL on both Glyphs and Seals
In other words, you don't forego mana regen runes and masteries, because if you do, you get screwed on items because you simply need to get mana regen there to keep up and masteries and runes are much better at replacing the need for a meki pendant than they are at replacing the need for a long sword.
Maknoon runs the same rune setup, but has more in defensive masteries and less in utility than I do, but I'm pretty thoroughly convinced that my setup is optimal for early game.
Yea ive been leaning towards that mastery setup. Cant get it to work with t1 runes though. Have to buy mana regen item.
Last night i went meki/shield and it didnt go well..
Then again it was against cho/ashe so i could rly do anything lol.
I capped off by going back to WW the nxt game. The panth and I were on the same page and ganked them into submission lol.
Im going to finish off lvl 20 and getting T3 runes before playing Panth again.
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By melee dps carry hybrid what do you mean? There are a tonne of other heroes that do better at pure melee damage. Though I agree he is amazing, I think there are a number of different ways to play him, of which I'm just scratching the surface of right now.
I've seen people all damning the AP/lifesteel stacking nasus, as the moment he gets disabled he dies, and there are other heroes that can do the dps carry role better. Others then come in to say that nasus shouldn't be a pure tank, as his abilities are hardly defencive in nature. So what I'm getting from this is that there needs to be a balance there they I have to find, perhaps depending on my own/their team makup...
One of the biggest arguments back and forth that people seem to have is whether HoG is worth it or not. I've seen both sides venemently defend their PoV on the matter, and really don't know where I stand. a minor tanking item that brings in a very minor amount of extra income vs getting better tanking items right off the bat...
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On July 07 2010 07:04 Shiladie wrote:
By melee dps carry hybrid what do you mean? There are a tonne of other heroes that do better at pure melee damage. Though I agree he is amazing, I think there are a number of different ways to play him, of which I'm just scratching the surface of right now.
I've seen people all damning the AP/lifesteel stacking nasus, as the moment he gets disabled he dies, and there are other heroes that can do the dps carry role better. Others then come in to say that nasus shouldn't be a pure tank, as his abilities are hardly defencive in nature. So what I'm getting from this is that there needs to be a balance there they I have to find, perhaps depending on my own/their team makup...
One of the biggest arguments back and forth that people seem to have is whether HoG is worth it or not. I've seen both sides venemently defend their PoV on the matter, and really don't know where I stand. a minor tanking item that brings in a very minor amount of extra income vs getting better tanking items right off the bat...
Other heroes do more damage, but they die so fast that over 20 seconds they only damage for like 4 seconds. As I mentioned several times (maybe I should stick it in the FAQ), melee DPS heroes have it hard because you have to soak up a lot of damage while outputting good damage. That means most "viable" melee DPS heroes nowadays are heroes that have a good innate source of damage (not item dependant) and have the ability to tank, one way or another. Yi, for instance, is "okay" because his passive skill gives him base damage, he can avoid some tanking time due to Alpha Strike teleporting him, and his ult lets him avoid a decent percentage of crowd-control (as he cannot be slowed). However, the primary argument against him as a real melee DPS is that he has absolutely terrible survival, so in a teamfight he has to play the vulture - come in from the side some seconds after combat has started, hope his team hasn't been overwhelmed, and snipe someone.
By contrast Nasus does so much damage because of Q and his ult that you can build him 100% as a tank and he'll still output ridiculous amounts of damage. Likewise, Udyr is similar in that Phoenix Stance does so much damage that you can build almost purely tank and he'll still kick some serious ass. That's why those two are considered "better" melee DPS hybrids and more viable overall.
People telling you to not build Nasus as a tank usually don't know what they're talking about. For a while going Sheen/TriForce was thought to be a good idea as the only damage item he gets, but nowadays people have decided you don't even need Sheen (TriForce out of the question as it's not worth its cost), and all you need is tanking items. He's just that baller.
HoG is great on jungling tanks because you're expected to roam the map and gank a lot, so you'll often find that you farm hardcore until level 4-5 and then don't really aftewards - getting extra gold for running around is nice. Also as a byproduct of jungling, most of the time you have a very consistent income at the beginning, so you can be pretty confident of getting a VERY fast HoG, which pays for itself as the game goes on, and the extra HP/Armor is handy so fast into a game. Bear in mind that per gold, the HP and armor you get from HoG is actually one of the best in the game, so the gold every 10 is just cherry on top. I mentioned some 20 pages ago that you can buy two HoGs for 500 less than one Sunfire Cape, have comparable HP and armor, and simply trade the 40 damage per second aura for 1 gold per second.
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Meh, I'll stick with Yi. I like doing underrated or underpowered stuff, it makes me feel accomplished when I rape face with them. I don't plan on doing high ELO anyways, and Yi is the most fun for me. I tried Shaco, meh. Too easy mode, I hate stealth. I think it's totally OP that you can stealth with him and twitch and all that in the middle of a fight when you're about to die.
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On July 07 2010 05:35 Mogwai wrote:
let me clarify...
if AP Yi does his thing, he alphas for a ton, gets hit a bit, meditates and gets disabled out of meditate, cleanses, meditate is still of CD and he just gets rocked or has to run away with highlander while his team dies.
AD Yi contributes nothing to teamfights short of playing cleanup exceptionally well. Typically, he has to hope his team can more or less break even in a 4v5, then prance in there with highlander and clean up the scraps. I find this role really useless and would rather have an Eve who can at least stun their carry for a couple seconds when push comes to shove.
I dunno, people seem to be all over Yi's nuts since he got buffed, but even in fed form, I find him really forgettable in teamfights.
I agree with your assessment except if AP Yi gets a kill in a teamfight he gets 5 kills in a teamfight. You're always going to be playing cleanup as Yi unless you have a lichbane in which case you're going to be playing "how hard can i abuse highlander's cooldown refresh" while hitting with alpha and lichbane procs for a ton.
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what is wrong with kennen players? they getting life steal these day? somebody tell me the news!
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EPT
