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League of Legends [New forum, check OP!] - Page 1201

Forum Index > General Games
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Daxunyrr
Profile Joined August 2010
United States190 Posts
October 13 2010 19:41 GMT
#24001
I like mah Kog'Maw though...

Great. the one char I actually really like on this game is mostly banned from games, and practice isn't even practice.

What the hell.
Stop bitching bout people who suck and teach em how to play.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
October 13 2010 19:44 GMT
#24002
Normal is good practice, if you don't roll with trolls.

Practice is strictly for ARAM imo. Kids there are "casual" gamers.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Phrost
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States4008 Posts
October 13 2010 19:45 GMT
#24003
The reason why Tristana is so dumb late game is she has like 850 range or something silly long like that. It's slightly less than Kog'Maw when he's using bio-arcane barrage
iamphrost.tumblr.com // http://howtobebettermagicplayer.tumblr.com // twitter @phrost_
myopia
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2928 Posts
October 13 2010 19:45 GMT
#24004
On October 14 2010 04:30 Mogwai wrote:
freeing up yellows and blues gives you some pretty good survivability options.


I'm looking at this from an efficiency POV. 18 runes at lvl 18 give 29.16 mp5. Manamune gives 7 mp5 and a total mana boost. Manamune costs 2110 gold, at least half of that being spent on mana.

I'd rather have the mp5 runes and money for chain mail/negatron/more damage than some armor/mres runes and manamune.
it's my first day
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
October 13 2010 19:47 GMT
#24005
Manamune is still very underwhelming for its cost. It's nowhere near a "must buy". Just get a f'ing BF Sword.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 19:50:54
October 13 2010 19:48 GMT
#24006
buuut, if ur gonna get a manamune anyways, there isnt much point in getting mp5 runes, i think ur looking at it backwards

edit: i actually think its kinda decent on tanky heroes, just kus with manamune+banshee's veil+frozen heart, you're actually looking at quite a bit of dmg. I still look at this as my core build for urgot, tho im not sure what other heroes this might be good on.
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
Daxunyrr
Profile Joined August 2010
United States190 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 19:51:28
October 13 2010 19:48 GMT
#24007
Depends on what yu mean by trolls.

SO far my record is 8w 13l.

Generally because of some nitwit feeder or whiner. That or half the team leaves.
Stop bitching bout people who suck and teach em how to play.
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
October 13 2010 19:52 GMT
#24008
On October 14 2010 04:47 NeoIllusions wrote:
Manamune is still very underwhelming for its cost. It's nowhere near a "must buy". Just get a f'ing BF Sword.

For mana intensive carrys like corki I cant think of a better item since it gives him whatever he wants.
The mana he needs, and AD.
The item is amazing on corki - trust me on that one :O
In the woods, there lurks..
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
October 13 2010 19:58 GMT
#24009
On October 14 2010 04:52 Iplaythings wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2010 04:47 NeoIllusions wrote:
Manamune is still very underwhelming for its cost. It's nowhere near a "must buy". Just get a f'ing BF Sword.

For mana intensive carrys like corki I cant think of a better item since it gives him whatever he wants.
The mana he needs, and AD.
The item is amazing on corki - trust me on that one :O


Or run Mp5 runes and get golem. That works too. I like my carries to build strictly damage. Survivability will eventually be needed (Banshee, GA, etc) but if you can avoid investing in non-essential items (Chalice, Manamune, mana items, etc), the better.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 20:03:04
October 13 2010 20:02 GMT
#24010
On October 14 2010 04:52 Iplaythings wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2010 04:47 NeoIllusions wrote:
Manamune is still very underwhelming for its cost. It's nowhere near a "must buy". Just get a f'ing BF Sword.

For mana intensive carrys like corki I cant think of a better item since it gives him whatever he wants.
The mana he needs, and AD.
The item is amazing on corki - trust me on that one :O


Meh, it delays your truly top tier damage items too long. With mp5 yellows(not even blues) I can use p-bomb plenty often in lane, and don't go OOM in fights. I'd rather not be 2000 gold down on my IE so that I can play a little less conservatively with bomb+rocket harassment.

Also you're not going to start meki on Corki, that's stupid, and if you can't start meki you probably shouldn't be going manamune.

By lvl 11ish mp5 runes are strong enough you don't care anymore.
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
October 13 2010 20:04 GMT
#24011
On October 14 2010 04:47 NeoIllusions wrote:
Manamune is still very underwhelming for its cost. It's nowhere near a "must buy". Just get a f'ing BF Sword.


well, when it first came out, it was definitely a GREAT item. you could justify it on anyone with an auto attack honestly

the cost increase plus the lowering of the damage by 0.5% of mana killed manamune faster than corn fritters and cheese puffs killed our favorite fat son phr0st.

i think it's struck a great balance now, it's still not a MUST BUY like IE+LW on a ranged carry but there are definitely certain champs that can use it. it's not like BF sword lets you spam ezrael's skills or kayle's heal.
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
October 13 2010 20:05 GMT
#24012
On October 14 2010 04:45 myopia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2010 04:30 Mogwai wrote:
freeing up yellows and blues gives you some pretty good survivability options.


I'm looking at this from an efficiency POV. 18 runes at lvl 18 give 29.16 mp5. Manamune gives 7 mp5 and a total mana boost. Manamune costs 2110 gold, at least half of that being spent on mana.

I'd rather have the mp5 runes and money for chain mail/negatron/more damage than some armor/mres runes and manamune.

wait wait wait... you see half the cost of manamune on mana..?!?!?!?!

you're looking at it wrong. When you buy it, it typically puts you around 1K mana in most situations, which between the passive and the base damage gives you ~40 AD, which on the BF Sword scale of AD/gold gives you 1480 gold worth of AD. So at the start, we're looking at about 630 gold being spent on not AD, but by end game, you're looking at that investment catching up (and fairly quickly) on making your AD investment worthwhile.

and for 29 mp5 to catch up to 7 mp5 and 1350 mana in effectiveness, you need to be regening mana for over 5 minutes. Over 5 minutes of missing mana is absurd at that point in the game. Not to mention by this point in the game, manamune has totally outclassed a BF Sword investment in straight AD. Now, of course, you're missing the opportunity cost of being able to upgrade a BF Sword, but on characters that have a ~2K gap in their build before they need to switch to building survivability or non-BF Sword derivatives, but need some AD and mana, manamune is completely optimal. As I've said time and time again, on Jungle Pantheon, he needs tanking runes on yellow and blue and gets away with it early because of blue buff, but after 2nd blue buff, he needs to cede it to your team's caster, leaving mana issues unless you invest in manamune, which fits PERFECTLY anyway because Manamune + brutalizer is a better follow up to Lantern than anything else that money can buy before you start rounding out your survivability.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
October 13 2010 20:07 GMT
#24013
On October 14 2010 05:02 red_ wrote:


Where yoo been Willis'
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
October 13 2010 20:09 GMT
#24014
Smash just crit'ed me with that wall of text.

... I mean, great points, mate!



<3
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
myopia
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2928 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 20:11:33
October 13 2010 20:10 GMT
#24015
I can't say anything about Pantheon using manamune, I'm talking about Ezreal. I probably should've mentioned that.

(and the half cost on mana part was Tear being 1000 gold, but your math makes sense)
it's my first day
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
October 13 2010 20:10 GMT
#24016
On October 14 2010 05:07 Southlight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2010 05:02 red_ wrote:


Where yoo been Willis'


I caught the work-itis, but I should be on tonight.
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
October 13 2010 20:12 GMT
#24017
I think we need a new thread... this thread is getting ridiculously huge such that i havent check here for 1 week and i cant keep track of things
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
October 13 2010 20:15 GMT
#24018
On October 14 2010 05:12 NB wrote:
I think we need a new thread... this thread is getting ridiculously huge such that i havent check here for 1 week and i cant keep track of things


Never.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
October 13 2010 20:15 GMT
#24019
On October 14 2010 05:12 NB wrote:
I think we need a new thread... this thread is getting ridiculously huge such that i havent check here for 1 week and i cant keep track of things

And how is this going to change with a new thread?
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
October 13 2010 20:15 GMT
#24020
On October 14 2010 05:05 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2010 04:45 myopia wrote:
On October 14 2010 04:30 Mogwai wrote:
freeing up yellows and blues gives you some pretty good survivability options.


I'm looking at this from an efficiency POV. 18 runes at lvl 18 give 29.16 mp5. Manamune gives 7 mp5 and a total mana boost. Manamune costs 2110 gold, at least half of that being spent on mana.

I'd rather have the mp5 runes and money for chain mail/negatron/more damage than some armor/mres runes and manamune.

wait wait wait... you see half the cost of manamune on mana..?!?!?!?!

you're looking at it wrong. When you buy it, it typically puts you around 1K mana in most situations, which between the passive and the base damage gives you ~40 AD, which on the BF Sword scale of AD/gold gives you 1480 gold worth of AD. So at the start, we're looking at about 630 gold being spent on not AD, but by end game, you're looking at that investment catching up (and fairly quickly) on making your AD investment worthwhile.

and for 29 mp5 to catch up to 7 mp5 and 1350 mana in effectiveness, you need to be regening mana for over 5 minutes. Over 5 minutes of missing mana is absurd at that point in the game. Not to mention by this point in the game, manamune has totally outclassed a BF Sword investment in straight AD. Now, of course, you're missing the opportunity cost of being able to upgrade a BF Sword, but on characters that have a ~2K gap in their build before they need to switch to building survivability or non-BF Sword derivatives, but need some AD and mana, manamune is completely optimal. As I've said time and time again, on Jungle Pantheon, he needs tanking runes on yellow and blue and gets away with it early because of blue buff, but after 2nd blue buff, he needs to cede it to your team's caster, leaving mana issues unless you invest in manamune, which fits PERFECTLY anyway because Manamune + brutalizer is a better follow up to Lantern than anything else that money can buy before you start rounding out your survivability.


I agree with your reasoning, and think that your line of thought for Pantheon is fantastic. I just think that on Corki(the other champ you listed as a fantastic MM user) the delayed IE really is damaging. He already is a late starter as far as carry power, pushing that back so that you can cast a few more p-bombs and shoot some more rockets is hard to justify. Now, it is true that he exhibits the attributes of someone that makes use of it, but he makes more use of IE(people seem to think his damage comes from GG, when it actually comes from them having no armor after GG+LW go to work on someone).

If I were going to delay his IE for anything, it would be a brutalizer(700g cheaper, gives him a huge 55 arpen with runes/masteries, which plays into what I typed above).
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
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