EPTGreat. the one char I actually really like on this game is mostly banned from games, and practice isn't even practice.
What the hell.
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Daxunyrr
United States190 Posts
Great. the one char I actually really like on this game is mostly banned from games, and practice isn't even practice. What the hell. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Practice is strictly for ARAM imo. Kids there are "casual" gamers. | ||
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Phrost
United States4008 Posts
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myopia
United States2928 Posts
On October 14 2010 04:30 Mogwai wrote: freeing up yellows and blues gives you some pretty good survivability options. I'm looking at this from an efficiency POV. 18 runes at lvl 18 give 29.16 mp5. Manamune gives 7 mp5 and a total mana boost. Manamune costs 2110 gold, at least half of that being spent on mana. I'd rather have the mp5 runes and money for chain mail/negatron/more damage than some armor/mres runes and manamune. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
edit: i actually think its kinda decent on tanky heroes, just kus with manamune+banshee's veil+frozen heart, you're actually looking at quite a bit of dmg. I still look at this as my core build for urgot, tho im not sure what other heroes this might be good on. | ||
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Daxunyrr
United States190 Posts
SO far my record is 8w 13l. Generally because of some nitwit feeder or whiner. That or half the team leaves. | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On October 14 2010 04:47 NeoIllusions wrote: Manamune is still very underwhelming for its cost. It's nowhere near a "must buy". Just get a f'ing BF Sword. For mana intensive carrys like corki I cant think of a better item since it gives him whatever he wants. The mana he needs, and AD. The item is amazing on corki - trust me on that one :O | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On October 14 2010 04:52 Iplaythings wrote: For mana intensive carrys like corki I cant think of a better item since it gives him whatever he wants. The mana he needs, and AD. The item is amazing on corki - trust me on that one :O Or run Mp5 runes and get golem. That works too. I like my carries to build strictly damage. Survivability will eventually be needed (Banshee, GA, etc) but if you can avoid investing in non-essential items (Chalice, Manamune, mana items, etc), the better. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On October 14 2010 04:52 Iplaythings wrote: For mana intensive carrys like corki I cant think of a better item since it gives him whatever he wants. The mana he needs, and AD. The item is amazing on corki - trust me on that one :O Meh, it delays your truly top tier damage items too long. With mp5 yellows(not even blues) I can use p-bomb plenty often in lane, and don't go OOM in fights. I'd rather not be 2000 gold down on my IE so that I can play a little less conservatively with bomb+rocket harassment. Also you're not going to start meki on Corki, that's stupid, and if you can't start meki you probably shouldn't be going manamune. By lvl 11ish mp5 runes are strong enough you don't care anymore. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On October 14 2010 04:47 NeoIllusions wrote: Manamune is still very underwhelming for its cost. It's nowhere near a "must buy". Just get a f'ing BF Sword. well, when it first came out, it was definitely a GREAT item. you could justify it on anyone with an auto attack honestly the cost increase plus the lowering of the damage by 0.5% of mana killed manamune faster than corn fritters and cheese puffs killed our favorite fat son phr0st. i think it's struck a great balance now, it's still not a MUST BUY like IE+LW on a ranged carry but there are definitely certain champs that can use it. it's not like BF sword lets you spam ezrael's skills or kayle's heal. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On October 14 2010 04:45 myopia wrote: I'm looking at this from an efficiency POV. 18 runes at lvl 18 give 29.16 mp5. Manamune gives 7 mp5 and a total mana boost. Manamune costs 2110 gold, at least half of that being spent on mana. I'd rather have the mp5 runes and money for chain mail/negatron/more damage than some armor/mres runes and manamune. wait wait wait... you see half the cost of manamune on mana..?!?!?!?! you're looking at it wrong. When you buy it, it typically puts you around 1K mana in most situations, which between the passive and the base damage gives you ~40 AD, which on the BF Sword scale of AD/gold gives you 1480 gold worth of AD. So at the start, we're looking at about 630 gold being spent on not AD, but by end game, you're looking at that investment catching up (and fairly quickly) on making your AD investment worthwhile. and for 29 mp5 to catch up to 7 mp5 and 1350 mana in effectiveness, you need to be regening mana for over 5 minutes. Over 5 minutes of missing mana is absurd at that point in the game. Not to mention by this point in the game, manamune has totally outclassed a BF Sword investment in straight AD. Now, of course, you're missing the opportunity cost of being able to upgrade a BF Sword, but on characters that have a ~2K gap in their build before they need to switch to building survivability or non-BF Sword derivatives, but need some AD and mana, manamune is completely optimal. As I've said time and time again, on Jungle Pantheon, he needs tanking runes on yellow and blue and gets away with it early because of blue buff, but after 2nd blue buff, he needs to cede it to your team's caster, leaving mana issues unless you invest in manamune, which fits PERFECTLY anyway because Manamune + brutalizer is a better follow up to Lantern than anything else that money can buy before you start rounding out your survivability. | ||
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Southlight
United States11761 Posts
On October 14 2010 05:02 red_ wrote: Where yoo been Willis' | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
... I mean, great points, mate! <3 | ||
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myopia
United States2928 Posts
 (and the half cost on mana part was Tear being 1000 gold, but your math makes sense) | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
I caught the work-itis, but I should be on tonight. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On October 14 2010 05:12 NB wrote: I think we need a new thread... this thread is getting ridiculously huge such that i havent check here for 1 week and i cant keep track of things Never. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On October 14 2010 05:12 NB wrote: I think we need a new thread... this thread is getting ridiculously huge such that i havent check here for 1 week and i cant keep track of things And how is this going to change with a new thread? | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On October 14 2010 05:05 Mogwai wrote: wait wait wait... you see half the cost of manamune on mana..?!?!?!?! you're looking at it wrong. When you buy it, it typically puts you around 1K mana in most situations, which between the passive and the base damage gives you ~40 AD, which on the BF Sword scale of AD/gold gives you 1480 gold worth of AD. So at the start, we're looking at about 630 gold being spent on not AD, but by end game, you're looking at that investment catching up (and fairly quickly) on making your AD investment worthwhile. and for 29 mp5 to catch up to 7 mp5 and 1350 mana in effectiveness, you need to be regening mana for over 5 minutes. Over 5 minutes of missing mana is absurd at that point in the game. Not to mention by this point in the game, manamune has totally outclassed a BF Sword investment in straight AD. Now, of course, you're missing the opportunity cost of being able to upgrade a BF Sword, but on characters that have a ~2K gap in their build before they need to switch to building survivability or non-BF Sword derivatives, but need some AD and mana, manamune is completely optimal. As I've said time and time again, on Jungle Pantheon, he needs tanking runes on yellow and blue and gets away with it early because of blue buff, but after 2nd blue buff, he needs to cede it to your team's caster, leaving mana issues unless you invest in manamune, which fits PERFECTLY anyway because Manamune + brutalizer is a better follow up to Lantern than anything else that money can buy before you start rounding out your survivability. I agree with your reasoning, and think that your line of thought for Pantheon is fantastic. I just think that on Corki(the other champ you listed as a fantastic MM user) the delayed IE really is damaging. He already is a late starter as far as carry power, pushing that back so that you can cast a few more p-bombs and shoot some more rockets is hard to justify. Now, it is true that he exhibits the attributes of someone that makes use of it, but he makes more use of IE(people seem to think his damage comes from GG, when it actually comes from them having no armor after GG+LW go to work on someone). If I were going to delay his IE for anything, it would be a brutalizer(700g cheaper, gives him a huge 55 arpen with runes/masteries, which plays into what I typed above). | ||
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