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TieN.nS)
Profile Joined August 2003
United States2131 Posts
October 13 2010 16:34 GMT
#23961
LW on Corki seems like a waste to me since % reduction is applied after all the flat armor reduction.
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 16:36:19
October 13 2010 16:35 GMT
#23962
On October 14 2010 01:10 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Triple blade to IE is such a good build that it's hard to argue for anything else on MF/Trist/Twitch.

I get 1dlabe into 2 avarice instead of 3 dblades on twitch. It's hard to say though, I really like the hp from dblade especially since I go atmas after my banshees but the 2 avarice + ie + green pot make you crit like crazy with your ulti. The gold/5 is also neat.
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
October 13 2010 16:41 GMT
#23963
LW is bad on Corki in theory because he's already shredding their armor.

LW is best as a 1-stop shot for Armor Penetration, as it has negative synergy with flat penetration and armor reduction.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 16:53:12
October 13 2010 16:51 GMT
#23964
I find it very hard to justify going 3-Dblade on Ashe, who has really bad innate DPS-potential. I'm pretty convinced that I should just get Iedge and LW ASAP, and skip all that doran stacking nonsense.

I'd skip on my first doran item and just get a longsword if I could, but that's not very realistic these days.

There's that brutalizer/ghostblade build that also works and is easier to play with (because it's much easier to spam volley than to position yourself safely for autoattacks), but it's still suboptimal imo.
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
October 13 2010 17:01 GMT
#23965
[image loading]

QUADRA KILL WITH OLAF

MAN POWERRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 17:08:59
October 13 2010 17:07 GMT
#23966
Also, I'm getting the impression that mindlessly putting points into volley every 2 levels isn't quite as good as it sounds because there's the mana issue and Ashe really just needs enough cd on volley to make her an undesirable target to harass.

How does

W,Q,W,E,W,R,Q,Q,Q,Q,R sound in comparison to

W,Q,W,E,W,R,W,Q,W,Q,R
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 17:09:00
October 13 2010 17:08 GMT
#23967
On October 14 2010 01:51 Juicyfruit wrote:
I find it very hard to justify going 3-Dblade on Ashe, who has really bad innate DPS-potential. I'm pretty convinced that I should just get Iedge and LW ASAP, and skip all that doran stacking nonsense.

I'd skip on my first doran item and just get a longsword if I could, but that's not very realistic these days.

There's that brutalizer/ghostblade build that also works and is easier to play with (because it's much easier to spam volley than to position yourself safely for autoattacks), but it's still suboptimal imo.

IE/LW is just as or even more suboptimal on Ashe... Ashe is a bad autoattacker compared to other champs, and crit/LW doesn't help your Volleys at all.

On October 14 2010 02:07 Juicyfruit wrote:
Also, I'm getting the impression that mindlessly putting points into volley every 2 levels isn't quite as good as it sounds.

How does

W,Q,W,E,W,R,Q,Q,Q,Q,R sound in comparison?


Sounds like being stuck on 12 seconds cooldown instead of 4.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 17:12:13
October 13 2010 17:10 GMT
#23968
Yes, ashe is a bad autoattacker, but since you're ricing your lane solo and technically still a ranged carry, you're expected to provide the most sustainable damage to your team possible.

I'm sad to say that I don't like brut/GB as much as I used to. Sad because I was one of the first to suggest that build on Ashe, even before you I think.

And firing volley every 4 second isn't really that great of an idea.
DefMatrixUltra
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada1992 Posts
October 13 2010 17:12 GMT
#23969
On October 14 2010 01:35 HazMat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2010 01:10 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Triple blade to IE is such a good build that it's hard to argue for anything else on MF/Trist/Twitch.

I get 1dlabe into 2 avarice instead of 3 dblades on twitch. It's hard to say though, I really like the hp from dblade especially since I go atmas after my banshees but the 2 avarice + ie + green pot make you crit like crazy with your ulti. The gold/5 is also neat.


I actually open Dshield into 2 Avarice Blades -> IE on Twitch. With 9 in defense and 21 in utility. I might just suck at early game Twitch, though.
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 17:21:45
October 13 2010 17:16 GMT
#23970
Basically my current gameplan with Ashe is to try and survive lane, farm up 2200 gold for BF + boots by level 10, get frost shot maxed out by level 10, grab red buff and arrow-gank every minute with ECA.

I do believe red + slow arrow stacks, so they're REALLY slow when you come a-knocking, not even ghost/flash is gonna let them get away.

That said, solomid level 10 is really pushing the limit at which a gank can be considered effective, so I am unwilling to put this into practice.
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
October 13 2010 17:44 GMT
#23971
On October 14 2010 01:41 Mogwai wrote:
LW is best as a 1-stop shot for Armor Penetration, as it has negative synergy with flat penetration and armor reduction.


it works well as a dps/arpen item in a single slot but it defintely isn't countersynergistic with other arpen and armred items

I just did some math in class and I'm on my touch so I don't wanna type it all out but

assuming 80 base damage and 0.85 aspd and 20 armor pen from runes as well as 100 armor on enemy champ

also I'm saying bruta gives 15 arpen and 20 AD cause I can't remember the right numbers exactly but I know I'm close

bruta + bf sword results in 66.92 dps
bruta + bruta + long sword gives 74 dps assuming brutas stack
bruta + last whisper gives 85.5 dps

cut their armor to 80 and last whisper still gives more dps
cut armor to 60 and double bruta does more damage
higher than 100 armor LW obviously helps more


So unless they have no tanks and you're allowed to gun right for their 40 armor trist, last whisper is always a better investment than flat arpen

but in a real game garen is going to be chasing you away so LW Will be muchore effective on him
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
STS17
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1817 Posts
October 13 2010 17:50 GMT
#23972
So I've been experimenting with different ways to make my opponents rage to improve my tanking abilities on various champions. Thus far I've established a few failsafe methods:

Feed twice then begin talking trash (works best on Morde against their squishy carry since you benefit from their fed-ness)

Tell someone on their team to "grow up" as soon as they make a comment after dieing

Telling the other team that this is your first time playing tristana since getting her on facebook and you are wondering why you can't take your R skill like on Udyr
Platinum Level Terran - Take my advice from that perspective
STS17
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1817 Posts
October 13 2010 17:51 GMT
#23973
On October 14 2010 02:44 gtrsrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2010 01:41 Mogwai wrote:
LW is best as a 1-stop shot for Armor Penetration, as it has negative synergy with flat penetration and armor reduction.


it works well as a dps/arpen item in a single slot but it defintely isn't countersynergistic with other arpen and armred items

I just did some math in class and I'm on my touch so I don't wanna type it all out but

assuming 80 base damage and 0.85 aspd and 20 armor pen from runes as well as 100 armor on enemy champ

also I'm saying bruta gives 15 arpen and 20 AD cause I can't remember the right numbers exactly but I know I'm close

bruta + bf sword results in 66.92 dps
bruta + bruta + long sword gives 74 dps assuming brutas stack
bruta + last whisper gives 85.5 dps

cut their armor to 80 and last whisper still gives more dps
cut armor to 60 and double bruta does more damage
higher than 100 armor LW obviously helps more


So unless they have no tanks and you're allowed to gun right for their 40 armor trist, last whisper is always a better investment than flat arpen

but in a real game garen is going to be chasing you away so LW Will be muchore effective on him


All sources of ArPen are unique and do not stack with themselves. E.G. Bruta does not stack with Bruta but will stack with Ghostblade.
Platinum Level Terran - Take my advice from that perspective
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 17:56:11
October 13 2010 17:55 GMT
#23974
On October 14 2010 02:10 Juicyfruit wrote:
Yes, ashe is a bad autoattacker, but since you're ricing your lane solo and technically still a ranged carry, you're expected to provide the most sustainable damage to your team possible.

I'm sad to say that I don't like brut/GB as much as I used to. Sad because I was one of the first to suggest that build on Ashe, even before you I think.

And firing volley every 4 second isn't really that great of an idea.

For sustainable damage, firing a Volley every 2.4 seconds is awesome. You hit several people with it and you don't even have to enter danger zone. You free up CC to protect other allies, and you can still attack even when you are low since you stay at 1k range.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
Glasse
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada1237 Posts
October 13 2010 17:57 GMT
#23975
Volley has 2 uses. slowing multiple targets or dealing damage. All depends on how you play ashe. I usually end up with 1 point in it at level 3 and then i max everything else before maxing it scout and extra gold is so very useful
ghen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1356 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 18:03:15
October 13 2010 18:02 GMT
#23976
Doran's ring is a great first item for many champs including mainly AD ones like MF. The reason being is mana consumption. MF and Corki both can be pretty heavy mana users that shouldn't be taking a lot of damage. The bonus to spells is nice as well and will definitely help with lane clearing and that extra damage taking out your opponent.

Doran's blade though is a better item to pull into the midgame. You won't be needing the lifesteal early, but it helps out more once you get some attack speed and need to gank / teamfight. By this point you will have less and less mana issues and the extra AP isn't helping so much with a pure AD/AS build.

Doran's shield is specifically for when you know you're going to get hit. The health regen and armor will keep you alive against ashe and kog mid early. (or if you're just a baddie like me.. Starting shield on a carry has saved me more than once)

So even when I play an AD carry mid I try to get my first item based on the opponents I'm facing.

Starting meki or vamp is always bad though even if you're going to buy them again later
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 18:06:04
October 13 2010 18:05 GMT
#23977
On October 14 2010 02:10 Juicyfruit wrote:
Yes, ashe is a bad autoattacker, but since you're ricing your lane solo and technically still a ranged carry, you're expected to provide the most sustainable damage to your team possible.

I'm sad to say that I don't like brut/GB as much as I used to. Sad because I was one of the first to suggest that build on Ashe, even before you I think.

And firing volley every 4 second isn't really that great of an idea.

it's less about actually firing Volley every 4 seconds than it is about having the option to fire volley every 4 seconds.

EDIT: have I mentioned that I think Manamune is in a really good place right now? I think the item is exactly where it should be.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
October 13 2010 18:14 GMT
#23978
On October 14 2010 02:51 STS17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2010 02:44 gtrsrs wrote:
On October 14 2010 01:41 Mogwai wrote:
LW is best as a 1-stop shot for Armor Penetration, as it has negative synergy with flat penetration and armor reduction.


it works well as a dps/arpen item in a single slot but it defintely isn't countersynergistic with other arpen and armred items

I just did some math in class and I'm on my touch so I don't wanna type it all out but

assuming 80 base damage and 0.85 aspd and 20 armor pen from runes as well as 100 armor on enemy champ

also I'm saying bruta gives 15 arpen and 20 AD cause I can't remember the right numbers exactly but I know I'm close

bruta + bf sword results in 66.92 dps
bruta + bruta + long sword gives 74 dps assuming brutas stack
bruta + last whisper gives 85.5 dps

cut their armor to 80 and last whisper still gives more dps
cut armor to 60 and double bruta does more damage
higher than 100 armor LW obviously helps more


So unless they have no tanks and you're allowed to gun right for their 40 armor trist, last whisper is always a better investment than flat arpen

but in a real game garen is going to be chasing you away so LW Will be muchore effective on him


All sources of ArPen are unique and do not stack with themselves. E.G. Bruta does not stack with Bruta but will stack with Ghostblade.



really? cars have wheels? since when!?

my math is just a demonstration that for its cost, Last Whisper will always provide improved DPS over flat arpen items of similar cost (i didn't want to compare ghostblade because it's a chunk more expensive, so i did bruta + long sword which is close to equivalent cost) against realistically armored targets, which seems counterintuitive but is true.
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
myopia
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2928 Posts
October 13 2010 18:15 GMT
#23979
What's good about Manamune now? Who's supposed to buy it?
it's my first day
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
October 13 2010 18:16 GMT
#23980
i actually have started going meki first on champs i plan to get mune on, it also means i can forgo mp5 runes and replace them with something else, which is kinda cool
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
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