On April 17 2011 09:11 KissBlade wrote: He still has normals with good reach/speed, shield slash that beats most assists and hit confirms into easy BnB's that build good meter. I have yet to see him in ANY matches that's tourney level where the infinite mattered over just building some meter and supering them. He has tools like every other character so I wouldn't rule him out just yet.
The fact that the infinite didn't matter yet even in high level play is why it shouldn't have been removed.
You ban/remove things when they break the game and the game boils down to just the same thing every time. Capcom doesn't seem to realize this =/
His tools suck if you realize how to fight against him. Massive frame disadvantage on everything he does, so I don't think his normals are good at all. Cap just gets wins off of people not knowing the matchup and doing punishable things in his face.
That said, this game lets you get random wins with any character, and not in a good way =P
It's not that they just removed the infinite it's that you can't really do more then 2 shield slashes you also can't do anything after the 2nd slash becuase they bounce so high now and without a air dash or otg's all his combos relied off the shield slash, i really think cap should give him an otg and give some frame invulnerability to the cartwheel that and a double jump would make cap much more competitive, else why would anyone play the capt when they can play wesker or someone else with much better normals higher priority and faster range attack and shit like a teleport. Lack of long combos wouldn't be an issue if the capt did some great damage in his normals or had great priority but again he doesn't have any of that.
How reliant on your team's anchor do you want to be? Anchor = last slot on the team (who will probably use the level 3 Xfactor).
Do you feel more comfortable with Taskmaster or Dante on 3rd slot? A lot of people talk about how cool Jam session is, but the metagame has developed different from marvel 2 so that most people don't rely on vertical space control.
Taskmaster's Horizontal shot is a solid all around assist for almost anyone in the game.
I personally use Tasky and he's overall my fav character because he's stupid good and fits my playstyle (and almost got me a win against Marn at the last Wednesday night fights, but my awesomeness at choking 10 times in the match got me a bad loss lol, salllttty)
However, a important thing to consider when putting an anchor is how good are they at opening people up SOLO? If he pops XFC 3 and then your opponent just runs and blocks, you are in trouble.
In this case, I think Dante is overall a better Anchor than Tasky since Dante has stupid mix ups.
So I would suggest Ammy/Tasky/Dante (and possibly giving Dante Weasel shot, though it can be redundant since you already have H.Shot with Tasky).
You can also try Tasky/Ammy/Dante. Don't put Ammy as anchor/3rd slot though, as her x-factor 3 is pretty ass, and her assist is not that great (Though its good for pinning, it's not ultra versitile).
You can also try Dante/Ammy/Task (depending on who you want as Anchor more).
All 3 characters on your team can chew up bar, so there isn't a great dedicated battery slot, so depending on which character you like more to blow meter, I would put 2nd.
Do you use slow and elements super a lot with Amaterasu? IF so, put her 2nd. Do you legion arrow a lot with TAsk? put him 2nd instead, etc.
Hate to shamelessly plug here ahha, but I just wrote an article about this a few hours ago actually directly about team building and assists if you want to check it out
And that's the best order IMO for that team. As mentioned, having horizontal shot + weasel could be redundant, but at the same time Weasel shot is faster and opens up more combo potential. You can also put Task on H.shot and dante on weasel instead or something.
Frame advantage makes a lot of sense once you know what it stands for, I'll try to explain here.
Every damaging move has 3 stages
Start up - active frames - recovery
Start up = time it takes for the move to start up before it can hit
active frames = the amount of time the attack can hit someone. Keep in mind that a lot of moves in the game only can hit once regardless of active frames.
Recovery = amount of time it takes for the character to go back to controllable/neutral state.
So for example let's say something like... (this is just an example, don't know exact numbers)
Let's say Wesker's cobra strike has a start up of 4 frames, is active for 5 frames, and recovers in 12 frames, and puts the opponent into hit stun for 22 frames.
So in this case, if you throw out a cobra strike, and it hits on the FIRST active frame, then it means it hits on the FIRST active frame of the active frames, meaning it hits on the 5th frame (4 frames of start up + 1 of the active frames).
So given the numbers above, if you hit on the first active frame (5th frame), then he will hit, and the REST of the active frames will be tacked onto the recovery frames, meaning that he will recover int 16 frames (the 4 active frames after the first one + 12 recovery frames). If the opponent is in hit stun for 22 frames, that means wesker is ADVANTAGED 6 frames or +6 frames (22 - 16).
You need to be advantaged to continue a combo. Now let's say you want to try linking (as opposed to canceling) something like 2 medium punches (pointless most of the time in mvc3, but useful in ssf4 and other fighting games, but just here for example). Now for example let's say medium punch start up = 3 frames, and is active for 4 frames, recovers in 2 frames.=, and puts someone in hit stun for 9 frames.
So on paper, if you hit on the first frame of the medium punch, which is the 4th frame of the medium punch, you will have 3 frames + 2 frames to recover, but it puts the opponent in hit stun for 9 frames, then you will be +4 at this point (5 frames of your own recovery vs 9 frames of the opponent coming out of hit stun). So since medium punch starts up in 3 frames, and you are +4 frames at that point, you CAN combo after that!
negative advantage usually comes into play when you are blocked, to determine safe pressure strings. As far as I know, all moves have a different frame advan/disadvan depending on if your opponent blocks or gets hit. If they block, they are put into guard stun/block stun instead of hit stun.
For example, let's say given the generations above, let's just say (theoretically again) - wesker's medium punch puts him at -2 frame disadvantage.
Now, let's say you are playing against sentinel who has no attack that is faster that 6 frames. This way, you KNOW you are safe as wesker if your medium punch is blocked against a sentinel, EVEN if you are disadvantaged on frames.
So all in all, you want to be advantaged in frames, as you can act quicker than your opponent if you are advantaged. Being at + frames can make your 3 frame move beat your opponents 3 frame move if you have even +1 frame advantage.
There's a lot of tricks here and there to use frame advantage such as frame traps, or using the tail end of the active frames to make combos not normally possible, etc.
lol when did zizou get banned? =( Worst case scenario we can PM a mod to update the OP, but it doesn't seem all that necessary.
@Black0out, good stuff in that article. The main team I play, Sent/Storm/Wesker, definitely fit that archetype of 2 points that work well + an anchor. (Storm wesker can still do the DHC trick as an added bonus, but I leave wesker for lvl 3 XF majority of matches)
Though now I'm switching thanks to capcom patching sentinel out of being a good point char >.< Task/Storm/Sentinel is my new team in training. Also fits your advice of having the character who you want to burn meter on second, so major +1 on that article!
btw your match against marn wasn't that bad. kinda bad assist call + you choking. I don't blame you for getting baited into that bad xfactor with wesker either, until you play the matchup against a decent zero you won't know not to do that. I don't like the character order switch you did game 2, but I think you just got a bit rattled there by the first game and were desperate to change something instead of trying to figure out the match the hard way with chris.
If you want to see what it's like really like to be dominated by a much better player, go youtube the match I had against evil rahsaan a couple years ago in vanilla sf4 D:
Falcomist, decent (but nowhere the top) melee player in Grand Finals, even tho he doesn't the take game seriously
So, for any of you that play smash, and also are involved in other fighting game communities, like tekken, or street fighter, I see that most of the people that play these games seem to have this rediculous notion that because Smash doesnt have a life bar and because the stage is an interactive part of the game, that Smash is 'Not a Real Fighting game'.
Now, I have always been of the notion, that not only is the smash series just a much a competitive fighter as street fighter or soul calibur, but that Smash makes you BETTER at fighting games in general and the increased number of options in smash makes you much smarter and more adept at spacing, reading, and most importantly, MINDGAMES.
To illustrate this point, in Rochester there is a smash scene and a SF scene. Both groups were planning to go very hard in MvC3. So before the game came out, I challenged the SF players to a crew battle. Smash vs Street Fighter, using MvC as a middle ground that both groups would play extensively so there wouldnt be any inherent advantages. The end result was the Smash Crew thoroughly beating the SF players' team 3-0 Hope fully there will be videos of this up in the near future.
Haha I dislike both Smash and Marvel 3 so I was taking the chance to poke fun at both of them at the same time. But I agree, I had my one pot shot let's go back to talking only about Marvel 3.
Because beating three random people at a scene proves that Smash players are better than SF at fighting games? Lol, if that's the case why don't we see Smash players sweeping through tourneys then?
Melee is pretty much the Starcraft of fighting games, if you do not agree to this you've probably never tried it, or seen it played. The game requires immense technical skills, just doing basic moves takes weeks to master.
I'm not saying it's that much harder than other fighting games than SF, but it's definitely not easier. For sure.
On April 18 2011 13:24 Demoninja wrote: casual
On April 18 2011 14:19 KissBlade wrote: Because beating three random people at a scene proves that Smash players are better than SF at fighting games? Lol, if that's the case why don't we see Smash players sweeping through tourneys then?
On April 18 2011 22:52 Demoninja wrote: Why are you pushing so hard to start a smash vs fighting games argument?
Because as I watched the Grand Finals that I linked earlier the commentators would make fun of smash, and I heard comments such as "You better not lose to a smash brothers player".
I've seen this attitude with quite a few SF players and it only shows a lack of knowledge, so I could try to enlighten some people.
EPT
