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First of all you have to make sure you are not worried about dropping a rank. It's normal and not avoidable to drop ranks on Tenhou, sometimes even several in a row.
And once you go on a losing streak, imo you should try to get your mind off of it for a while (which you hopefully did when you didn't play for 2 weeks) and just forget about it. It has no influence on your next games. Don't fall into the trap of avoiding the plays that turned out bad for you in the last games just because of bad luck. You can do the right thing and still lose, but if you take that as a reason to do the wrong thing, you will lose even more.
Sure, you could try to analyse your lost games in detail and find out where you actually made mistakes, but I'd rather just ignore those and play to the best of your current knowledge without digging up painful memories. You'll fix those mistakes sooner or later in a less painful way.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6lJjr5f.png)
My stats have dropped heaps since playing in the upper lobby but its enough to keep me breakeven at 5dan. A fresh start is always nice but don't get too obsessed with your stats! When it comes to having a losing streak, I always jump to L7447 for a game or two. I don't particularly like playing there though since people there aren't that great and play really slow.
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Yeah, I had a bad run these last few games too: I mostly placed second, only a couple of first places. Ohhhh yeah!
Back to 初段 now, finally I can get my stats wrecked against better opponents.
Interesting, both of you Rhaegar and JSH have massively higher meld call rates and obviously lower riichi rates to go with it than me. We seem to differ quite a bit in style. Your ratios are a lot closer to the average ratios of the highest ranked players though...
Whatever, I like patiently sitting on a closed hand until I think I have a good shot at winning with riichi, or just damaten to victory.
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Also remember that since you've been playing the public lobby, your stats will be a bit skewed due to the softer competition. If you hit the same wall again in the lower lobby you could try opening up more hands a bit and play more aggressive.
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I wouldn't say I ever hit a wall on Tenhou yet. I hit 3 dan before I think, and then had a bad run dropping by 1 rank. After that I took a break for unrelated reasons and found my account to be gone. With the fairly small number of games I played in those ranks it's too early to call it a wall just because I dropped a rank once.
How much of an indication of skill is Tenhou's rating system, by the way? Since I'd likely overtake Rhaegar's rating if I win my next match too (I got 25 rating points for my last game and am now at 1897) even though I'm 4 ranks lower I wonder if it has much of a value.
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I felt like I hit a wall when I got to 3dan :/
But I have been playing more aggressive now and hopefully that would translate over to better results once I get there
And I think my bailing got loads better too
Only one more win away from 1kyu :3
I feel like if I can call and win a hand quick (mostly Yakuhai/Fanpai/tanyao + dora(s)), I would almost always go for it, if the hand favors being open
Even if it's only worth like 2k or something
There are so many times when I got greedy trying for bigger hands and never actually winning :/
But I don't call every hand and I prefer keeping my hands closed.
I do like closed hand better as it nets more points, and more ambiguous I suppose
It's hard to put into words when I decide to open my hand or when I decide to keep it closed, but I guess biggest influence would be how quick I can win, yaku, and hand value (also how many points you or the other players have)
Also I'm having trouble knowing what to discard when your hand has pairs with random lone 3 4 5 6 or 7 tiles and end tiles with single waits like 12m or 98p. Should I keep the lone tiles which has has potential to create better hands (and ryanman waits), or keep the pairs and penchan waits? Should I discard one tile from my pair to create multiple opportunities for ryanman waits? I can't remember the situation exactly on the top of my head, but if I ever play a game and run across it, I'll take a SS and post
I think I like ryanman waits too much :<
to the point where I might be inefficiently forming my hands around them
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I usually aim for at least 2 dora if I go for otherwise cheap open hands like yakuhai or tanyao. Unless I'm well ahead and trying to close out the game. I'll also consider how dangerous my opponents look. If an opponent seems to be making good progress with his hand, I am less likely to call tiles.
However, I am trying not to be greedy for high value hands either. I'm fairly quick to abandon ship and go into betaori if a hand isn't going well and my opponents are making me cautious. I don't like the idea of pushing a low value hand while at risk of dealing into mangan hands.
I definitely want to be close to victory when I start calling tiles. A bit less close if I call a triplet of dora dragons I guess.
I know what you are talking about with the single tile vs penchan waits. There's a lot of things to consier. Like how close you are to getting tanyao if you get rid of the penchan and how likely you think you are to draw the tiles that complete the penchan vs the tiles that build the ryanmen, which in turn depends on your opponents' discards. Also how likely you are to draw tiles towards pairs/triplets for each of the options. And of course the dora. And last but not least what will the waits of your final hand be (sometimes you can even hope for something better than a ryanmen) and how likely are your opponents to hold or discard these tiles.
Since all of this can't actually be quantified... I just go with my gut feeling. Whenever I don't, I usually deal straight into a mangan anyways.
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For me, I see rating to be a short term and rank as a long term indication of skill. I like to see spines in the upper lobby and see how you fair. Judging from your posts, I think you've got what it takes to break even there.
I agree with a lot of spines' points. Except maybe the first sentence. I like to open hands with yakuhai even without any dora simple because a closed yakuhai hand would be almost as crap as an opened one. I feel its better to just win a quick hand and deny your opponents of points instead of playing patiently to get that riichi. The only time I would not call the yakuhai is when I would use them as a pair or I'm one or two off tenpai with good waits. Tanyao is more situational since a closed tanyao hand can be worth much more due to pinfu.
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On September 11 2013 01:38 Rhaegar99 wrote:
For me, I see rating to be a short term and rank as a long term indication of skill. I like to see spines in the upper lobby and see how you fair. Judging from your posts, I think you've got what it takes to break even there.
I agree with a lot of spines' points. Except maybe the first sentence. I like to open hands with yakuhai even without any dora simple because a closed yakuhai hand would be almost as crap as an opened one. I feel its better to just win a quick hand and deny your opponents of points instead of playing patiently to get that riichi. The only time I would not call the yakuhai is when I would use them as a pair or I'm one or two off tenpai with good waits. Tanyao is more situational since a closed tanyao hand can be worth much more due to pinfu.
This is a bit unstructured, but I don't want to clean it up, too lazy.
I do call yakuhai relatively often as long as the hand doesn't seem extremely slow. I guess that and open tanyao during the last games of a match when I am ahead are where most of my calls come from.
However, if the hand is slow and not worth a lot I tend to just hold my pair of yakuhai back and eventually use them as relatively safe tiles (in the situation we discuss we can assume that at least one of the yakuhai was discarded by an opponent or else I couldn't call it). The chances to win a slow hand are slim enough even with calling, cutting into my defensive potential for an unlikely 1300 points seems bad to me.
I don't think I call riichi very often with yakuhai in my hand.
Generally, when I call yakuhai and the hand is not worth a lot, it's a defensive maneuver. I probably am pretty close to you there in fact. I don't do risky discards just to get the hand through, but I usually wouldn't mind taking the game if I get fast draws. If it doesn't put me into tenpai, I probably wouldn't make additional calls because then my defense really starts hurting.
I never actually thought this through in such detail before, I just did it :p
Seems like I overtook you  Unless you made some rating as well I guess...
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nL2adq2.jpg)
I really only had to win my next match after all. Funny that I won this since I misclicked one game which led to me dealing into a 11600 hand a few turns later, and then I was afk for a couple of turns of one hand as well. Salvaged it by scoring 3 mangan hands.
Won another one. Can't stop laughing. First places among my last 40 matches: 20.
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Battle Report
+ Show Spoiler +Me and my honorable opponents join the game. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qmCFYum.jpg) A worthy introduction to an epic game by nonogaki. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/U7Eix1J.jpg) nonogaki makes it clear to everyone: We are fighting with no holds barred. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NbpiqXJ.jpg) I took my chance to retaliate. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Do0WkEb.jpg) 祐次 chooses to use the same technique as nonogaki. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qcFicAe.jpg) And he knows how to make it hurt. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZBQqdUr.jpg) 雨弓 wants a piece of the cake as well. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mGoXwp7.jpg) We enter the 4th hand of the south round and 雨弓 makes a move again: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/j1ZxFJy.jpg) Sudden death mode turned on! Who will be the last man standing? 雨弓 strikes again. My punches are weak, victory is slippling away. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dvmKDvh.jpg) And he keeps going! How can I stop him? ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tQPRzIC.jpg) I manage to seize an opportunity: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QByobio.jpg) But alas, it wasn't enough! The situation is dire. The game is coming to an end, with the 4th hand of the west round starting right now. 雨弓 is relentless! My hopes are shattered. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/G82pWQM.jpg) Was my fighing in vain? Did my struggles bear no fruit? I see the END button, the match is over. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4DwhZ2h.jpg) . . . But wait, what is this? + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wvBnaKF.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UfU169j.jpg) And here I am, victorious. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ycxdZXt.jpg) It will take ages for that grin to disappear from my face. I can't remember the last time I was this happy. It was an awesome match. Everyone was hitting hard, yet it was close until the very end. The game collapsed during the west round, but I emerged victorious from the destruction my opponents laid down on each other.
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hahaha that ron staright into second place
Well I suppose 2nd isn't bad, wonder if he should've passed it or not
And 2 daburu riichi in one game?
It's rare to get 1 lol
But gratz on the win :3
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That match was the foreshadowing for my next games at 二段 rank. The average tenpai speed of my opponents has dropped by about 3 turns if not more. Took me a while to adapt and decrease my ratio of playing into super random fast hands with surprisingly high values. And I am pretty sure I had overstressed my luck with that 0.436 first place ratio, now it is time for compensation.
Anyways, after a couple of really bad games (and really horrible luck too) I manged to scrape together some second places and now even a first place. Regained all the points I lost. Starting to feel better about the lower dan room.
My call ratio has increased a bit, but I totally blame that on the much higher number of honors I get dealt and draw. Can't really do much in the area of closed hands when you have to get rid of 6+ random honors for that. I still feel a lot more comfortable with closed hands though.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YbisGYg.png)
September was a pretty good month for me. I've been grinding a bit and doing a bit better than breakeven which puts me within reach of 6dan again. Every time I get this close I always crash and burn and lose consecutive games. Hopefully I'll finally get there this time!
i hate this game  
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I think you should clear up that last line a bit. What happened?
I'm about to crack into 三段, have been durdling around above 700/800pt for a while now. About time I get those last few points.
Best of luck to you, even if it sounds like it didn't go so well yet...
Got there!
Gee, this is super annoying currently. I do make mistakes here and there of course, but the amount of luck my opponents have currently is crazy. Just now one guy won 7 out of 9 hands. The first hand was a draw, and I managed to score a single hand off one of the other players who both went negative when that guy wrapped the game up with a dealer's haneman while they were at 400 and 2600 or so points. Yeah, I got second place... but I sure didn't do much for it other than not play into anything.
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This will never come up, but I have to get it right anyways:
Can a hand be a yakuman, but counted as a normal hand anyways because the normal hand has a "higher value"? In other words: Do multiple kazoe yakuman exist?
Example:
22m 22p (5555m) (5555p) (5555s)
riichi, ippatsu, tsumo 2p
dora indicators: 4444m 4444p
Yakuman: plain Suuankou
Han: riichi 1, ippatsu 1, tsumo 1, tanyao 1, toitoi 2, sankantsu 2, sanshokudoukou 2, sanankou 2, aka dora 3, dora 16, ura dora 16
Total han: 47 ("triple kazoe yakuman")
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On September 10 2013 23:51 JSH wrote:
I felt like I hit a wall when I got to 3dan :/
Same here, went to 3rd dan and couldn't really progress that fast anymore. Stopped playing for a while, then noticed my account got deleted and well, never really played again.
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On October 25 2013 17:33 spinesheath wrote:
This will never come up, but I have to get it right anyways:
Can a hand be a yakuman, but counted as a normal hand anyways because the normal hand has a "higher value"? In other words: Do multiple kazoe yakuman exist?
Example:
22m 22p (5555m) (5555p) (5555s)
riichi, ippatsu, tsumo 2p
dora indicators: 4444m 4444p
Yakuman: plain Suuankou
Han: riichi 1, ippatsu 1, tsumo 1, tanyao 1, toitoi 2, sankantsu 2, sanshokudoukou 2, sanankou 2, aka dora 3, dora 16, ura dora 16
Total han: 47 ("triple kazoe yakuman")
In most rulesets a koze is always a single yakuman no matter how excessive the han. Of course some random jansou might have differnt house rules and if you ar playing international diplomatic mahjong then of course all bets are off.
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Oh I swear i replied to that previous post! I crashed and burned again and kinda went on tilt lol. I'm about 1400 points now.
Shymons probably right about the rules. From what I know, and han over 13 is a yakuman and there no other non yakuman score greater than that other than double or multiple yakumans.
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On October 25 2013 22:25 Rhaegar99 wrote:
Oh I swear i replied to that previous post! I crashed and burned again and kinda went on tilt lol. I'm about 1400 points now.
Shymons probably right about the rules. From what I know, and han over 13 is a yakuman and there no other non yakuman score greater than that other than double or multiple yakumans.
The single source I found on the internet that addresses this issue directly also supports that assumption. Specifically it says that han is ignored if a regular yakuman is present.
Sucks to drop by that much. I know from recent experience. Back to about neutral in 3rd dan though.
During the last few months I developed and implemented a new shanten counting algorithm (the old one was slow and also had at least one structural bug that would be a pain to fix). It's a complex process involving multiple finite state machines adding up to ~22 MB, constructed from ~700MB of data I generated.
But it is fast.
First thing I'd like to use it for is a small program where you can input a hand and it will display the shanten and ukeire much like the program I posted here earlier. However thanks to the increased speed I should be able to run these calculations multiple turns deep.
The discard that improves your shanten by 1 right now is not always the fastest discard to bring you to tenpai. So I could for example list for each possible discard "X% chance to reach tenpai in Y turns" and other such things.
Does anyone have ideas for the user interface or other features I should include?
Here's the ideas I have for the UI so far:
- A block of the different tiles
- A display for the current hand, a display for the current melds, a display for the current discards
- Clicking the block of tiles while holding some key adds a tile to either display depending on the key
- Clicking a tile in hand moves it to discard or to a new meld, probably with a key again, some way to fill up a meld
- Potentially drag and drop too
- Stats are obviously updated on the fly
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Can someone explain to me this "japanese mahjong"? I am a very experienced old style Cantonese player. Generally I am a greedy player, I look at my hand and see the best possible outcome and tailor it on the fly.
I mean i know most of the rules, but i'm very confused anyhow. i'm using the no frills flash based site called gamedesign to play the game against the AI. http://www.gamedesign.jp/flash/mahjong/mahjong_e.html
So far it has given me plenty of bullshit such as the dreaded "furiten" error. Now I know you cannot win off a tile you discarded before, and in this case I wasn't - I passed up on winning on a discarded paipan so I could go out on a reachy triple dora (5 sticks) which I have never discarded before, and I knew it was going to have to come out, and so it did - but lo and behold, furiten error. What is this dumb shit.
Also the AI uses nonsense cheap hands to win, ok so gaiwu is allowed, I got the point, but none of my chin yat sik (pure suit) hands I usually pull off in canto actually work. If I'm close to actually winning, the AI never actually gives me the tile I need to win, or some other AI feeds the winning player on purpose.
I really don't understand anymore.
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EPT
