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On March 17 2010 21:53 oberon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 21:45 Ota Solgryn wrote:On March 17 2010 20:54 oberon wrote:On March 17 2010 12:24 Tooplark wrote:
I love Mundo but acknowledge that he's pretty bad. I believe that survivability items are necessary on Mundo (melee DPS) but you need some DPS items too if you want to actually do reasonable damage. The "one good game" was just because it was awesome.
Also if I'm outlaning the other team I usually have a turret down in 15 minutes or so. Not that special. Taking a tower in 15 is not that special. Taking two mid towers in the first 10 minutes without getting ganked seemed special to me. --oberon Can't take it anymore. Plz stop saying "--oberon" after each post. We know it's you. It says right at the top of your post. Signing my posts has no more to do with making sure everyone knows who it is than signing my emails/snail mail. Show nested quote +
On topic:
I play blitzcrank. What do you guys think about him. I've made a build that gives me a win rate (atm) of 30 - 10 and I am not a carry. I really think he is crazy good. What wins me the games is mid, lategame when people start going together. Even against high elo players you can always get a couple of gamebreaking grabs that just ends games fast.
One of the people I play most with plays Blitz as his main. Grab is just really, really good -- especially with a strong pusher (Heim, Siv) -- you get into those stalemate dances around turrets, then Blitz comes in and grabs someone from next to their turret, and they get slaughtered. I'm genuinely surprised I don't see more Blitz -- his stats are good, he has a skill for almost every situation, and his only weakness seems to be that he can't dominate a team-fight. Yet I see more Eve or Ryze than I do Blitz, and they're completely one-dimensional and ALSO can't dominate a team fight. --oberon
But it is different in a forum, because here you have signed in with your account with a password only you know, so we know it is you. Also, you have a signature line where you can post your signature. It is what it is there for.
OT:
I completely agree with you. In my 40 games as blitzcrank I've played against him only twice. I mean, he is almost the ultimate support char. He has the best initiator in the game (grab) and dang, you can make some insane grabs. He has a disabler/stun skill to stop channelers, fleeing heros and chasing heros. He has a ok aoe dmg ultimate and he has a speed boost. Also his powerfist is so good a getting fast dmg to towers.
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Baikin has like 500 games logged on Blitzcrank so far :p
He's great in coordinated lanes, or coordinated early-mid gameplans that revolve around ganking a Blitz vs 2 lane with a jungler, and he's great against teams that are 1) too stupid to buy Banshee or 2) have their Banshee nullified by a lame hero like Ashe, but against teams that mass up Banshee it's rough without a Banshee-popper.
He also isn't that great once a teamfight breaks out, and hooking a tank like Alist will instantly lose you the team fight.
You don't see him much because people 1) don't like melee DPS 2) think he's a tank (he's not) and 3) he's a skill-shotter with high cooldown. Miss and everyone thinks you fail at life.
We certainly give him shit every time he misses a crucial hook :D
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On March 17 2010 23:57 Southlight wrote:
Baikin has like 500 games logged on Blitzcrank so far :p
He's great in coordinated lanes, or coordinated early-mid gameplans that revolve around ganking a Blitz vs 2 lane with a jungler, and he's great against teams that are 1) too stupid to buy Banshee or 2) have their Banshee nullified by a lame hero like Ashe, but against teams that mass up Banshee it's rough without a Banshee-popper.
He also isn't that great once a teamfight breaks out, and hooking a tank like Alist will instantly lose you the team fight.
You don't see him much because people 1) don't like melee DPS 2) think he's a tank (he's not) and 3) he's a skill-shotter with high cooldown. Miss and everyone thinks you fail at life.
We certainly give him shit every time he misses a crucial hook :D
Yeah, exactly. My friend plays blitz and even if he pulls 5+ good hooks and misses next one we flame him;p (it's a friend so in a friendish way, but still )
Also blitz is one of the best chars that support FB. At lvl 2 his hook+fist combo gets so much time to kill that it isn't even funny. Especially if you hook escaping enemy and lane partner has his own stun as well
Oh and hooking single people from dragon when you hide behind it's "barn" = priceless
@ oberon - Do you sign every message you post on MSN as well? Because forums is way more direct way of communicating, just like instant messengers and signing under posts/instant messages is as inapproriate as not signing your mails when sending "official" e-mails
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Our most commonly-played duo with Blitz is Blitz Alist :x The lane control + tower killing speed is sickening against unprepared opponents.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
the nidalee nerfs were huge!!!
not
just got my armor pen runes finally and just dominated with her from start to finish, such an ez mode char
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Game is still who-has-the-better-Jax, though.
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did they fix veigar with that downtime?
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No mention of a hotfix anywhere.
Last night my team ran with a Jax and Veigar, it was kinda stupid.
Also the TF nerf... lol? His teleport is like 2 seconds now, as opposed to the 1.5 seconds pre-rework. And gold card is really easy to get. Was there supposed to be a nerf to his map control?
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lol, well, they made gold card not AoE stun, which helps and it also doesn't do retardedly massive amounts of damage. Taking away global slow was also nice I guess. WCs do less damage now, too. I guess they really thought that was all that was wrong with him.
I've picked up the new TF and it's at least different figuring out how to play him. But jeez, I was underfed by a few levels and still just ulted to pick off a fleeing teemo and then soloed a pirate at full health with 2/3 hp after hitting a mushroom for a double kill. I mean, it's just the fact that he can see everyone, teleport instantly and immediately stun them that's broken. If you make his other skills even worth getting, a character with that skill set will be broken. And ffs, stacked deck is re-fucking-tarded and wild cards are still good. And I personally think his new passive ain't half bad either.
Oh and another thing, his TWO SECOND STUN is on a base SIX SECOND CD, and he's the easiest char in the game to get 40% CD redux on, so we're talking basically a TWO SECOND STUN on a THREE POINT SIX SECOND CD. WHAT THE FUCK?
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On March 18 2010 01:20 Kaniol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 23:57 Southlight wrote:
Baikin has like 500 games logged on Blitzcrank so far :p
He's great in coordinated lanes, or coordinated early-mid gameplans that revolve around ganking a Blitz vs 2 lane with a jungler, and he's great against teams that are 1) too stupid to buy Banshee or 2) have their Banshee nullified by a lame hero like Ashe, but against teams that mass up Banshee it's rough without a Banshee-popper.
He also isn't that great once a teamfight breaks out, and hooking a tank like Alist will instantly lose you the team fight.
You don't see him much because people 1) don't like melee DPS 2) think he's a tank (he's not) and 3) he's a skill-shotter with high cooldown. Miss and everyone thinks you fail at life.
We certainly give him shit every time he misses a crucial hook :D Yeah, exactly. My friend plays blitz and even if he pulls 5+ good hooks and misses next one we flame him;p (it's a friend so in a friendish way, but still ) Also blitz is one of the best chars that support FB. At lvl 2 his hook+fist combo gets so much time to kill that it isn't even funny. Especially if you hook escaping enemy and lane partner has his own stun as well Oh and hooking single people from dragon when you hide behind it's "barn" = priceless @ oberon - Do you sign every message you post on MSN as well? Because forums is way more direct way of communicating, just like instant messengers and signing under posts/instant messages is as inapproriate as not signing your mails when sending "official" e-mails
Actually, a forum post is semi-permanent and not meant to be read immediately, so it's much more like email than IM.
Now, while comparative communication etiquette, abstraction, and history is a fascinating subject, it's wildly off-topic. From now on, if you would like to discuss it with me, please limit your comments to private messages.
--oberon
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On March 18 2010 02:13 Southlight wrote:
No mention of a hotfix anywhere.
Last night my team ran with a Jax and Veigar, it was kinda stupid.
Also the TF nerf... lol? His teleport is like 2 seconds now, as opposed to the 1.5 seconds pre-rework. And gold card is really easy to get. Was there supposed to be a nerf to his map control?
I just played as Veigar. Unless there's some "trick" to it, people were being stunned a reasonable length of time. I did *not* get a new patch, but I think this is fixed.
--oberon
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Exactly :p
His GC was already not an AoE stun - it got nerfed into AoE snare instead, but yeah. The damage reduc is noticeable, but given it's on like a 4 second CD I don't really care. Being able to go from 100 mana to full mana in like 20 seconds is nice, too.
So now he's like uber Pantheon, as he can teleport, teleports in 1/3 the time, has a ranged stun, and has ridiculous physical damage output. He's like a ranged Jax that teleports around the map!
And the cooldown on his teleport? Pshaw, have a free 30% cooldown...
/o\
What were they thinking?
I wasn't a TF player before, but I'm having to think long and hard about not becoming one now, just because I don't have to be pained by gold card timing anymore.
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On March 18 2010 01:50 Southlight wrote:
Game is still who-has-the-better-Jax, though.
The Jax nerf? Yeah, not even anywhere close to good enough. Every character has to spend on offense, defense, or both -- except Jax. Not only that, the free defense he gets is HP -- it works against DPS *and* nukers. What do you do if he jumps in and initiates? Avoid him because he has 4K HP? Then he slaughters you with his massive AD/AP. Nuke him because he's slaughtering you? You'll need at least 2, if not 3 nukers to actually take him out, and now you're effectively 2v4 in a teamfight. Try to DPS him? Better hope you win that contest. Oh, and you won't, because he has DPS *and* health, and you have one or the other. Finally, let's not forget that if anyone (including a creep!) attacks and he dodges he can now stun a good portion of your team.
In other news, I ran into my first compentent Ezrael today. Apparently, his niche is that all his attacks have good range and shoot through walls. He's the ultimate turret diver, because he doesn't actually have to dive.
That said, endgame he still seems 100% useless.
--oberon
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On March 18 2010 02:38 oberon wrote:
I just played as Veigar. Unless there's some "trick" to it, people were being stunned a reasonable length of time. I did *not* get a new patch, but I think this is fixed.
Veigar twists the edges of space around the target location for 3 seconds, stunning enemies who pass through the perimeter for 2 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 3 seconds.
Assuming one has merc treads, and you're looking at a non-maxed EH, you're looking at someone being stunned for 1.2 seconds the moment they get stunned.
Unfortunately the bug is such that if you get stunned off the bat (they line up the edge for you), you get stunned for 1.2 seconds, then when that wears off another 1.2 seconds, then after that wears off (remember, 3 seconds duration, and you've "only" been stunned 2.4 so far!) another 1.2, for a total of 3.6 second stun.
Which, uh, is not how it's intended to work.
So the question is, was "reasonable length of time" 1.2/1.6 seconds, or was it 3.6?
Edit:
Ez is always strong, IMO, but you have to get both auras to be at full potential.
His main ability is damage + 120 damage, with a 3 second base cooldown and -1 if it hits, as well as applying on-hit effects.
Which means if you have 100 base damage you're actually doing 220 damage if you can keep landing that skill. Then if you have decent cooldowns + golem you'll be able to shoot it every second, which coupled with teleport and slow, makes it so there's nothing that can escape you, provided you have the mana.
What I see instead is that most people build AP on him, which buffs the rest of his skills, but they're not quite as damaging. Going full damage will make that skill ridiculously effective, while also making his regular attack strong, and remember he gets up to 65% attack speed from his passive, making him actually a very effective DPS character.
Last night I saw an Ez lane with a Sion and go all-out damage, and from like level 3 onward the damage output was devastating.
Edit2:
Essentially you're looking at people going AP Trist, from my perspective. Yes, his ult gets good with AP. Yes, he heals better with AP. And yes, his teleport does more damage with AP. But it's his ridiculous attack speed gain that's the core of his character, and coupled with the passive attack speed buff and his +120 damage skill on 1-2 second cooldown (provided you keep landing it), you get one of the best DPS heroes.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
veigar was hotfixed last night ya
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On March 18 2010 02:52 Brees wrote:
veigar was hotfixed last night ya
Awesome. They should post that on webby but w/e.
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I think those numbers are out of date for stun duration. I also think the bug is that it reapplies every second, meaning that if it were to hit off the bat, it would stun for 1.2 at 0 secs, re-stun for 1.2 at 1 secs, re-stun for 1.2 at 2 secs, re-stun for 1.2 at 3 secs = 4.2 second stun... with merc treads.
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On March 18 2010 02:45 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 02:38 oberon wrote:
I just played as Veigar. Unless there's some "trick" to it, people were being stunned a reasonable length of time. I did *not* get a new patch, but I think this is fixed. Veigar twists the edges of space around the target location for 3 seconds, stunning enemies who pass through the perimeter for 2 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 3 seconds. Assuming one has merc treads, and you're looking at a non-maxed EH, you're looking at someone being stunned for 1.2 seconds the moment they get stunned. Unfortunately the bug is such that if you get stunned off the bat (they line up the edge for you), you get stunned for 1.2 seconds, then when that wears off another 1.2 seconds, then after that wears off (remember, 3 seconds duration, and you've "only" been stunned 2.4 so far!) another 1.2, for a total of 3.6 second stun. Which, uh, is not how it's intended to work. So the question is, was "reasonable length of time" 1.2/1.6 seconds, or was it 3.6? It was not 3.6. I could drop a meteor, THEN stun, and still have them dodge
Edit:
Ez is always strong, IMO, but you have to get both auras to be at full potential.
His main ability is damage + 120 damage, with a 3 second base cooldown and -1 if it hits, as well as applying on-hit effects.
Which means if you have 100 base damage you're actually doing 220 damage if you can keep landing that skill. Then if you have decent cooldowns + golem you'll be able to shoot it every second, which coupled with teleport and slow, makes it so there's nothing that can escape you, provided you have the mana.
What I see instead is that most people build AP on him, which buffs the rest of his skills, but they're not quite as damaging. Going full damage will make that skill ridiculously effective, while also making his regular attack strong, and remember he gets up to 65% attack speed from his passive, making him actually a very effective DPS character.
Last night I saw an Ez lane with a Sion and go all-out damage, and from like level 3 onward the damage output was devastating.
He's clearly a ranged DPS champ (this was obvious BEFORE he was released). The problem is, I don't think he's as good as Tristana, Ashe, Twitch, TF, or Sivir. If you're 6th-best in your category...that's not a good place to be.
--oberon
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Lawl, it was even worse than I thought, then \o/
But fixed, yay. Well Riot has server issues but they're pretty quick at hotfixing stupid stuff like that, so it's all good.
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Ashe is one of the worst possible DPS heroes, so Ez is definitely better than her in that regard. Really what he's matched up against are Twitch, Trist, Corki, and the new TF, and I'm not sure he's actually that far behind ANY of them.
Twitch is obviously the best pure ranged DPS output in the game, because of his sick attack speed (like 40% + 100% and armor/resist ignore at end-game for 7 seconds), and penetration effect.
Trist has an Executioner's Calling effect, a 300/400/500 damage nuke with "okay" range, a jump that does like up to 300 damage and snares, and a 5-second buff of like 100% attack speed at end-game.
Corki gets 10% true damage and AoE armor reduc, an escape/AoE territory control, and a decent-ranged snipe-shot.
TF gets 30%? attack speed, a stun, and like 100 damage every 4 hits.
Ez gets up to 65% attack speed and +120 damage every 1-2 seconds if you can keep landing it, has a teleport that also does damage (~300?), debuffs enemy DPS by like 40%, and has a good long-range finish.
I'm not so sure he's necessarily behind anything.
Ashe, by the way, has nothing. That's why she's a terribad DPSer
Edit:
I don't know if it was necessarily obvious before Ez was released, because 90% of Ez players go AP right now. It's obviously not very obvious.
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EPT
