I've played against teams (usually high elo) with shit like Mord/Nasus/Sion/Ryze/Anivia that was really annoying. But I was always solo queue, and that Anivia was LIBF, and I have no doubt in my mind our usual setup would crush them, and it would be hilariously one-sided.

So, no, no issues from me.

hasuprotoss

United States4690 Posts

May 06 2010 17:50 GMT

#3662

Yeah, I've wondered about the effectiveness of running around with 5 guys with boots and as many sunfire capes as they can get, but the farm required for it to be good is probably too long.

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

May 06 2010 17:54 GMT

#3663

The problem with the setup is that it's not really different from a 5-healer team. The same things that strike down a 5-healer team strike down mass-tank teams. Then with tank teams you also have the issue of having little lane control and difficulty farming, and most of the viable DPS tanks have absolutely no CC. It's a great pubstomp team, because people usually play heroes that have bad damage vs CC vs survival ratios, but if you have a properly setup team, you'll laugh as the tanks do nothing, and you just kite them around forever.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

May 06 2010 18:06 GMT

#3664

what's the problem with the 5-healer team? I feel like I missed the memo on that cause we stopped playing it out of nowhere. Like, the only game I remember us losing with a decently dedicated healer team was the rematch where the other team also whored heals and Baikin's inexperience with Alistar shined through and let Fiddle rapestroy us.

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

May 06 2010 18:11 GMT

#3665

I don't have a problem with it, but Turkey/Baikin and I agree that in that one game a while ago, when we had Pokey (Ashe) instead of Steve (Fiddle), if we had Fiddle instead we woulda won that game. Which means if we have a proper setup we'd stomp it. Our team compo that game got exposed right after when we lost to the Jax; and we lost that game even worse than we lost to the healing team, so go figure.

Anyways, we mostly stopped playing it because Baikin prefers Blitz anyways and it just feels more comfortable. Not that... not that I've really stopped healing because I'm apparently maining Janna now, but yeah.

Chrispy

Canada5878 Posts

May 06 2010 18:22 GMT

#3666

All the Udyr's I've been seeing as of late are going tanky/sunfire cape builds. If they're good and work with their team it can be a bitch to handle... but I think Mord can do a better job of never dying than Udyr. Except Uydr has that stun...

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

May 06 2010 18:23 GMT

#3667

Phoenix Stance gives like 80? extra damage per attack on average, which works out to however much DPS depending on his attack speed. He's one of the best melee DPS in the game, and requires almost no damage items to wreak havoc. He also has a great chase/stun skill.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

May 06 2010 18:26 GMT

#3668

well, yea, I've still been playing AP Ez pretty extensively recently, so I never really stopped either :p. I just still feel like 4-5 healer teams are imba right now, but I'm cool with running non-imba teams for the time being :p.

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

May 06 2010 18:33 GMT

#3669

Honestly, assuming we have a jungler (which we need, for Blitz to have the 1v2 lane) we're usually running two healers and one self-healer (udyr/warwick of late) anyways. That plus Blitz and some random fifth works quite nice, especially because Janna's lanepartner usually gets farmed like crazy.

Edit:
On a somewhat related note, I think I'm gonna skip Mejai on Janna from now on.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

May 06 2010 18:41 GMT

#3670

eh, I dunno, it's ok, but I think if you're going to have a non-healer on the healer team, they need to be able to output sustained damage, which Blitz doesn't do particularly well. I might just go to playing Sivir with that setup so we can siege better.

Baikinman

United States74 Posts

May 06 2010 18:44 GMT

#3671

having 1 or 2 healers on a team in general helps so janna and ezreal isn't bad

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

May 06 2010 18:49 GMT

#3672

I don't think you need Sivir with Janna; they do pretty much the same thing (Gale/Boomerang).

Blitz actually does really good DPS, one of the best, he just lacks in the actual "I tank AND do the damage" department, as he's more like an assassin that sneaks in and kills someone, then runs out.

What we're lacking when I play Janna is a vanguard. Janna's unfortunately a very defensive hero - if your team fucks up, she'll reset the battle or do a good job keeping every alive on an escape, so you need someone to run in and force the enemy team to concave where they don't want to. Blitz is also a pull hero - he's much, much better when the other team is on the offensive. That's why Ezreal is quite nice on the setup, and Ashe, because both heroes tend to force the other team to decide to go or not (as their range supercedes normal initiation).

I'm pretty sure Fiddle would not work very well with Janna, but we haven't played with a Fiddle in a while, so I'm not really minding that lack of synergy at the moment.

I would definitely not mind having like a Janna/Blitz - Ezreal - Nidalee - Udyr/Warwick setup though. The damage buff I'd give Blitz, as well as his freefarm would probably make up for the lack of level advantage gotten through a 1v2 lane.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

May 06 2010 18:55 GMT

#3673

well, I guess we've just really been missing a nidalee. honestly, the thing that's killing my ezreal the most right now is the lack of heals that can target me since we've been like, self healer + ez + janna for heals, which sucks for the ezreal cause he's got the only spammable heal and he can't self target, so I often find myself having to stick in teamfights with low health because the only source of HP recovery I can get is through Janna's ult, but I need to stick around to keep my team alive.

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

May 06 2010 19:00 GMT

#3674

LEARN TO TAKE LESS DAMAGE NOOOOOOOOOOB.

Hahah.

I could switch off of Janna but the map control and defensive strength she gives is hard to pass up right now. She controls the game really well. I thought Shen controlled the map well, but he's nothing compared to her.

Brees

Marshall Islands3404 Posts

May 06 2010 19:20 GMT

#3675

oh oh pick me I play nidalee.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

May 06 2010 19:36 GMT

#3676

I'd be down to run my Ez, Southlight's Janna, Brees's Nid, Turkey's Warwick, and Baikin's Blitz. Sadly, timing basically never works out

seanisgrand

United States1039 Posts

May 06 2010 23:13 GMT

#3677

christ it pisses me off when people play the free champs for the first time in a MM game. for effs sake please try them in 1 practice game at least so you can get some familiarity with their spells and get a minimum build order down, it just rages me soCAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW

HazMat

United States17077 Posts

May 06 2010 23:21 GMT

#3678

Wow Nidalee is soooo strong on TT. You can just put traps in every bushwack since that's the only way to to cross to the south/north. I don't I've lost a game yet with her.

oberon

United States1320 Posts

May 06 2010 23:24 GMT

#3679

On May 06 2010 21:58 Southlight wrote:

Show nested quote +

Ooh, I hadn't thought about that. Coolio.

The actual AP ends up being 188. So if you have 188 AP, the 1000 cash for 47 AP is 21.27 $/AP, whereas another blasting wand (860 for 40) is 21.5 $/AP -- slightly pricier. That means you need 68 AP from things other than the 3 blasting wands as part of the recipe -- basically one top tier AP item (Rylai, RoA, etc.). This assigns a value of zero to Zhonya's active ability, of course.

Standard caveats about mejai, archangel, and pen items like void staff potentially adding more to your damage apply, obviously.

oberon

United States1320 Posts

May 06 2010 23:35 GMT

#3680

On May 07 2010 08:21 HazMat wrote:
Wow Nidalee is soooo strong on TT. You can just put traps in every bushwack since that's the only way to to cross to the south/north. I don't I've lost a game yet with her.

I think the tournament sorta disproved this. Nidalee doesn't have the early burst of Ez/Annie, she doesn't have the early tankiness of Mundo/Udyr...she's tier 2, certainly...but not tier 1.