It's nice to have armor pen/dodge/whatnot for jungling, but unnecessary. It's more about the order in which you kill camps/ being map aware if you're in the enemies' jungle.

Ota Solgryn

Denmark2011 Posts

May 03 2010 07:55 GMT

#3523

Wow. New trynd is pretty badass. With the perfect item for him. The new item. I was just starved for an entire lane phase but still got that one item and a boot. Then in a fight (or just 1v5 lol) run in and start hitting that ashe or whatever. Activate ultimate, new item and cleanse and she is dead with your 60 crit chance and 50% attackspeed. Then blink/ghost/whatever out of battle again and laugh.

rredtooth

5464 Posts

May 03 2010 11:54 GMT

#3524

On May 03 2010 12:03 Southlight wrote:

Show nested quote +

I can't think of any hero that requires runes to do their job. It just means you won't be able to do it at peak efficiency, whatever that is.

i've seen a jax jungle. wasn't the best player but did his job. definitely needed runes for that.

oberon

United States1320 Posts

May 03 2010 12:32 GMT

#3525

Jungling with Fiddle without runes/masteries is very, very hard. You pretty much have to buy a blue elixir and at least one health pot.

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

May 03 2010 13:25 GMT

#3526

I can jungle Jax just fine without runes. I've done it before with armor pen/mp5/mp5 before, none of which really helps him jungle early on. And you should really be getting Elixir for jungle fiddle anyways because otherwise he kills waaaaaaaaaaaay too slow.

kyzers0ze

Singapore1073 Posts

May 03 2010 13:38 GMT

#3527

i've been jungle fiddle with a doran ring and smite

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

May 03 2010 14:13 GMT

#3528

Mmkay if you bring smite I guess you can do without Elixir, but if you don't have smite you pretty much need Elixir IMO, or you have no chance of keeping up with smite-less WW etc. much less one with smite. I usually open Elixir Ward Health and ward up dragon, either to prevent their WW (who can dragon level 4) or to protect myself when I dragon at level 3.

Edit:
I should mention I usually take Ghost/Flash because I am a crappy, crappy Fiddle. o/ Also not having Smite is less likely to clue them into golem. >_>

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

May 03 2010 15:08 GMT

#3529

last night I played a solo queue game vs. a Ez + Nid + WW team that QQed over us being a healing team when we were packing Ez + Nid + Soraka, lol. I guess they didn't realize it was our Kat BBing all over their faces that was making us rape them in the heal fights :p...

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

May 03 2010 15:25 GMT

#3530

Speaking of Kat, what the heck did they do to her to make her so viable? They were all tiny nudges but now when I play her it feels like I'm playing the Kat of old again O_o I had no idea she'd gotten buffed that much.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

May 03 2010 15:35 GMT

#3531

I think most of the Kat players on the LoL forums were saying it was the KI buff, but I have never once played Kat, sooooooo yea, I have no idea.

pokeyAA

United States936 Posts

May 03 2010 16:15 GMT

#3532

She's still not as good as of old imo, I'd take old kat over the KI buff Kat anyday.

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

May 03 2010 16:26 GMT

#3533

Really? I think she's absolutely brutal now, even without her ult. Before, without her ult she wasn't actually that good.

pokeyAA

United States936 Posts

May 03 2010 17:06 GMT

#3534

Well thats the thing, Kat's early game is brutal either way before team fights. However, once team fights starts, her ult is what makes her useful. However, Old Kat's ult just melted people. Her Ult basically made the fact that her other abilities sucked once you got to late game a moot point as it did tons of damage.

So in my eyes, the old Kat was more risk and reward. You played smart and get your ult off, you owned face. You don't or are positioned badly, you're pretty much useless in team fights. Played well (or conversely against dumb opponents), this let you snowball hard once you got stacked bloodthirsters.

The Kat now is more stable. You play smart, your ult does Ok to good damage. You don't, you still do Ok damage with the rest of your abilities. But I prefer the feel of the old Kat.

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

May 03 2010 17:09 GMT

#3535

Honestly, I think the fact that she's less reliant on her stationary Ult has increased her viability in more competitive games by a lot. I see some of the better Kats now just tower dive and chase incessantly, because they know they'll do crazy damage on the move. Before with Kat you'd only towerdive if your ult was up, and once your ult was stopped or they moved out you were useless. Literally now I'm more reckless with my ult, because if it's stopped I'll simply bust out the other skills and burst people down anyways. Put another way, it used to be that if you survived her ult, you won. Now, if you survive her ult, you have to survive 500 damage bursts. 500 damage bursts that are hard/impossible to run away from.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

May 03 2010 17:14 GMT

#3536

yea, and those 500 damage bursts make it so I only heal 200 rather than 400 of it with my essence flux

. Counters to healing are so gay, OMG! They need to nerf Kat.

pokeyAA

United States936 Posts

May 03 2010 17:20 GMT

#3537

On May 04 2010 02:09 Southlight wrote:
Honestly, I think the fact that she's less reliant on her stationary Ult has increased her viability in more competitive games by a lot. I see some of the better Kats now just tower dive and chase incessantly, because they know they'll do crazy damage on the move. Before with Kat you'd only towerdive if your ult was up, and once your ult was stopped or they moved out you were useless. Literally now I'm more reckless with my ult, because if it's stopped I'll simply bust out the other skills and burst people down anyways. Put another way, it used to be that if you survived her ult, you won. Now, if you survive her ult, you have to survive 500 damage bursts. 500 damage bursts that are hard/impossible to run away from.

I'll disagree with you only at the point that come late game, I feel she drops in viability currently. Without her ult damage, her burst and dps from her other abilities just can't match up with other champs. If you went AP, its even worse as you sit around autoattacking people in between cooldowns for pathetic damage and pathetic attack rate, not to mention BB scales with AD. In other words, while she she owns small encounters, she really needs her ult in team encounters to win team fights. Trying to whittle down people in small bursts just isn't good enough.

Compared to that, for the Old Kat it was literally a race for either her to hit level 16 as fast as possible, or her opponents to prevent her from hitting 16 as long as possible. She was a monster once late game rolled around cuz the second she hit her level 3 ult, it was team ace time.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

May 03 2010 17:23 GMT

#3538

was her old ult interuptable? I dunno, I remember back in the day getting rolled by Kat's ult, but now a days, I just keep my stun off CD and wait for her to make her move. If she were even more reliant on it back in the day, I think I'd rather fight that version because as long as you have a stun ready, her ult isn't all that scary, regardless of how much it's doing.

Madkipz

Norway1643 Posts

May 03 2010 17:28 GMT

#3539

Summonername: Madkipz, usually playing LoL when not on sc2.

and how come Lol is less popular than Beta HoN? is it really the graphics?

pokeyAA

United States936 Posts

May 03 2010 17:30 GMT

#3540

On May 04 2010 02:23 Mogwai wrote:
was her old ult interuptable? I dunno, I remember back in the day getting rolled by Kat's ult, but now a days, I just keep my stun off CD and wait for her to make her move. If she were even more reliant on it back in the day, I think I'd rather fight that version because as long as you have a stun ready, her ult isn't all that scary, regardless of how much it's doing.

Yes it was interruptable, and thats what I meant with risk and reward. The old version, IF you got it off, you did assloads of damage. That was the fun and challenge of Kat, knowing when to engage and the exact timing to get it off (you learned to hate and despise Fiddles and Alistars) Saving a stun is easier said than done when the other team is stunning/silencing you themselves, people are out of position, youre losing the initial engagement etc. It was super satisfying seeing a team blow their abilities and panic when they see you waltzing in.

Oh, and they basically nerfed her only due to the Morgana / Kat combo. Morgana would black shield Kat, and her ult would be practically unstoppable as you couldn't save a stun for her. That was what made her 'unbalanced'. Similar to the Twitch/Kayle combo, it was the combination of 2 champ's ults or abilities that made people cry.