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I haven't played tanks that can use HoG seriously in long enough that I can't really provide a useful opinion of whether HoG builds are viable on Rammus/Amumu (the two who I saw them on the most). HoG or not though, I think you should go Aegis first, it's HP + Armor + Magic Resist and it helps your team, it's pretty much the core tanking item (obviously get a HoG or two first if you plan on building them at all). As with most heroes, merc treads seem absolutely vital to sure up your magic resist and prevent yourself from getting screwed over by CC. Post Treads + Aegis, I usually see some combination of the following items: Guardian Angel, Sunfire Cape, Banshee's Veil, Frozen Heart. Sometimes there's a chalice mixed in there or thornmail or warden's mail, but all of these seem to be uncommon and purely situational. I've heard that Rammus has big issues with mana and CDs sometimes, so I actually think going glacial shroud quickly here with the intent to upgrade to Frozen Heart later makes a lot of sense. I guess if I were looking for a starting point build right now, I'd do something like health crystal (or maybe cloth armor + pots, I dunno) -> boots1 -> aegis -> glacial shroud -> sunfire cape (or GA/BV depending on opposing team comp) -> frozen heart
Warmogs is generally just too expensive to be worth it on anyone. The item also requires decent farming speed to be useful, which works against the tanking crowd that finds its stats appealing. Rammus certainly falls into this category, unlike say... ChoGath or Mordekaiser, who can legitimately farm it up to reasonable stacks fairly quickly. Most of the time I find myself looking at Warmogs, I just opt for Frozen Mallet instead because its extra effect on top of the 700 hp makes you more of a legitimate threat and the cost is comparable. You lose out on some late game HP and a lot of HP regen, but since you're probably stacking other tanking items anyway, this really shouldn't be your concern so much as giving the opponents a reason to fight you is.
Force of Nature seems like it carries no real synergy with Rammus so the only reason I can think you'd buy it are to 1) sure up your magic resist and 2) synergize with Warmogs. Assuming you eliminate Warmog's from your build, it loses a lot of appeal, as there are more direct ways about 2) (banshee's, guardian angel, less need if you add in merc treads).
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On April 17 2010 01:12 Southlight wrote:
Guh, last night's games were rough, Mog ;/ We'd always make like one mistake and it'd cost us the game.
guh, yea, it was terrible. we were just not on point last night at all. It's a shame too, cause the one game where we seemed to be getting it together, Turkey was on the phone with Angie and we just couldn't coordinate, you know, our initiator with the team fights and I think that at least put me on tilt for the last game you were in... sigh...
you missed out on a hilarious last game though. I went Ashe solo mid and went longsword despite being vs. a trist and got rocked at like, level 4, lol (yea, you were right on that one, that matchup is fucking impossible). So then Baikin switched mid and spammed "/laugh" the rest of the game as we fuckstart their faces. Then Alan's computer DCed and we lost some ground, and then the game dragged out and the fact that our team was Ashe + Blitz + AP Shaco + Kassadin + Amumu sorta caught up to us. We were just dicking around the whole time and cracking up on Skype though, so it was one of the most fun 40 minute losses I've ever had.
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On April 17 2010 01:25 Mogwai wrote:I haven't played tanks that can use HoG seriously in long enough that I can't really provide a useful opinion of whether HoG builds are viable on Rammus/Amumu (the two who I saw them on the most). HoG or not though, I think you should go Aegis first, it's HP + Armor + Magic Resist and it helps your team, it's pretty much the core tanking item (obviously get a HoG or two first if you plan on building them at all). As with most heroes, merc treads seem absolutely vital to sure up your magic resist and prevent yourself from getting screwed over by CC. Post Treads + Aegis, I usually see some combination of the following items: Guardian Angel, Sunfire Cape, Banshee's Veil, Frozen Heart. Sometimes there's a chalice mixed in there or thornmail or warden's mail, but all of these seem to be uncommon and purely situational. I've heard that Rammus has big issues with mana and CDs sometimes, so I actually think going glacial shroud quickly here with the intent to upgrade to Frozen Heart later makes a lot of sense. I guess if I were looking for a starting point build right now, I'd do something like health crystal (or maybe cloth armor + pots, I dunno) -> boots1 -> aegis -> glacial shroud -> sunfire cape (or GA/BV depending on opposing team comp) -> frozen heart Warmogs is generally just too expensive to be worth it on anyone. The item also requires decent farming speed to be useful, which works against the tanking crowd that finds its stats appealing. Rammus certainly falls into this category, unlike say... ChoGath or Mordekaiser, who can legitimately farm it up to reasonable stacks fairly quickly. Most of the time I find myself looking at Warmogs, I just opt for Frozen Mallet instead because its extra effect on top of the 700 hp makes you more of a legitimate threat and the cost is comparable. You lose out on some late game HP and a lot of HP regen, but since you're probably stacking other tanking items anyway, this really shouldn't be your concern so much as giving the opponents a reason to fight you is. Force of Nature seems like it carries no real synergy with Rammus so the only reason I can think you'd buy it are to 1) sure up your magic resist and 2) synergize with Warmogs. Assuming you eliminate Warmog's from your build, it loses a lot of appeal, as there are more direct ways about 2) (banshee's, guardian angel, less need if you add in merc treads). EDIT: Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 01:12 Southlight wrote:
Guh, last night's games were rough, Mog ;/ We'd always make like one mistake and it'd cost us the game. guh, yea, it was terrible. we were just not on point last night at all. It's a shame too, cause the one game where we seemed to be getting it together, Turkey was on the phone with Angie and we just couldn't coordinate, you know, our initiator with the team fights and I think that at least put me on tilt for the last game you were in... sigh... you missed out on a hilarious last game though. I went Ashe solo mid and went longsword despite being vs. a trist and got rocked at like, level 4, lol (yea, you were right on that one, that matchup is fucking impossible). So then Baikin switched mid and spammed "/laugh" the rest of the game as we fuckstart their faces. Then Alan's computer DCed and we lost some ground, and then the game dragged out and the fact that our team was Ashe + Blitz + AP Shaco + Kassadin + Amumu sorta caught up to us. We were just dicking around the whole time and cracking up on Skype though, so it was one of the most fun 40 minute losses I've ever had.
Well imo you should try to Hog builds since after you've gotten 2 of those, boots of your choice and lvl 5 DBC, you tank like a truck allready. Tbh I ahvent tried the banshee's - guardian angel - ino improvisation build? I'd like to try it so if you point out the BO I'd be happy to compare (;
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What do you guys think about Warwick?
I've got 90 games under my belt now. At the start I was having great winning streaks, but now I regularly face teams with 3 cleanses and this just makes my job near to impossible. I get some early kills from jungling, but when the endgame hits after the 40 minute mark I'm mostly a useless piece of meat.
It's become so frustratrating I'm currently learning Ashe, since she consistently seems to do well in high ELO games. I would like some tips on improving my Warwick though, if you have any knowledge to share.
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Fiddle has always been my favorite hero in LoL. It was the first hero I bought and I tried so hard to reach level 12 just to get Flash.
But honestly I just can't seem to find a good way to play him :S All of his spells seem viable and I'm torn on which one to focus on. Is he still a jungle focused hero or can I lane him? And what about the Flash nerf? Hasn't that screwed him since he was so dependent on it?
If someone posted a little guide like the ones I've seen in the thread for other champions I would appreciate it. Like what Summoner Spells what Runes, Masteries, items and the order in which to level his skills.
I think I'm going to focus on him for a while and play a little Veigar on the side. God I love that little bastard :p.
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I'm a fan of Chalice on Rammus, but I can see Glacial/Banshee overcoming Chalice now. I still don't like him as a hero because he becomes obsolete really fast :x HoG is stupid IMO because you might as well turn two Rubies into Aegis/Phage. (or Leviathan)
We were doing fine in my last game but then my Baron ward ran out and I was filled on space; I shoulda just sold an item and replaced ASAP. Kinda sucks that I'm the only one that consistently wards, though -_-
Edit:
I was also getting irritated at the fact that we'd have two casters and a ranged DPS and not friggin one of you guys were any decent at solo mid. So I'd have to take over with Anivia but then Turkey jerks off with a crappy tank and we're staring at 4-squishies-and-one-tank-that-can't-disable.
Warwick's pretty good; late-game he suffers from "I'm a melee DPS not named Jax" but it is what it is.
Ashe isn't really much better than WW at high Elo tho, just an FYI ^^
Drain isn't good on Fiddle, so you should only get level 1. Dark Wind is his best spell, so you should really max that out first. He's more of a lane hero IMO, as his jungling is really weak. Flash nerf is fine, just take Flash and Ghost.
Runes should be Magic Pen, of course. 9/0/21 is fine.
Skills I usually see DW Terror DW Drain DW Ult DW T DW etc.
Veigar sucks because he's a carry nuker - if you have one hero that has to farm for 30 minutes before he's any useful, you might as well have, you know, a DPS carry. He's a nice counterpick but in blind pick he's an asinine pick. 1/5th the time you'll have someone worth killing, that you can reach. The other 4/5th you'll get mowed down before you do anything other than stunning, or there's nothing worth killing.
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Ok thanks Southlight that helps out a lot.
Now... Items? What should I get at the start of the game and what items I should aim for? I usually went for Rod of Ages and stacked Zhonya's. People swear by Mejaj but I don't like the items mechanic like someone said before me, sure you are unstoppable when you have 20 stacks but then you die and you are useless.
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That's one of the things I struggle with about Fiddle. Most people agree that Mejai is a core item on him because you should hover around 10 stacks relatively consistently, which makes it a cheap 80 AP item. However it can also lead to a terrible game if you don't get stacked-up early.
RoA is way too slow, but it also helps him survive.
Zhon is okay if your team has disables and they FF you, otherwise turning to stone won't help you kill anything.
It's a bit weird because his disables make him a top-tier hero, but I definitely think he needs a certain team setup, particularly in the tanking department, to make him shine. Specifically, you NEED at least a Malphite, Alistar, or Amumu, and of the three I think Malphite works best with him (because Malphite can bait and ult, and Malphite's burst AoE spikes up to 1000 by the end of the game). We had games last night where our Alistar wasn't paying attention and then we had a Rammus that doesn't do anything for Fiddle, and in both games we were looking at a fairly useless Fiddle. I don't know. Another problem is without survival he dies so fast, but he tends to live on the knife's edge in terms of being a glass cannon. A lot just seems to be a game-to-game thing.
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On April 17 2010 01:51 Arhkangel wrote:
Fiddle has always been my favorite hero in LoL. It was the first hero I bought and I tried so hard to reach level 12 just to get Flash.
But honestly I just can't seem to find a good way to play him :S All of his spells seem viable and I'm torn on which one to focus on. Is he still a jungle focused hero or can I lane him? And what about the Flash nerf? Hasn't that screwed him since he was so dependent on it?
If someone posted a little guide like the ones I've seen in the thread for other champions I would appreciate it. Like what Summoner Spells what Runes, Masteries, items and the order in which to level his skills.
I think I'm going to focus on him for a while and play a little Veigar on the side. God I love that little bastard :p.
Gank, Gank, Gank, Gank, and Gank some more with fiddle. Especially early. As soon as you hit 6, if you can't kill your lane, go somewhere else. Jungle fiddle is very good, because they can't call you missing from a lane, but I don't know the precise best way to go about that.
And the flash nerf wasn't a huge deal. Personally I just get flash/ghost and lane with him, instead of getting consume and jungling. I get bats/fear with only 1 level of drain, since bats/fear is what is going to help your ult tear through them the most when you hit 6. I don't level drain (when non-jungling) early because you can't do it while chasing people down with your ult on.
As far as runes/items, you want to get mejai's soulstealer as early as you can, and since his AP conversion is nothing to write home about, you DEFINITELY want to compliment your AP with magic pen. So magic pen runes I would definitely recommend.
And of course, bushes are your best friend.. in ganks, team fights, whatever, you want to stay back around corners and in bushes 100% of the time, because the best thing you can do for your team is show up a second or two late with your ultimate. No need to be up front fearing/silencing at risk of getting picked off/silenced before the ult gets thrown down.
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On April 17 2010 02:20 The-Dom wrote:
And of course, bushes are your best friend.. in ganks, team fights, whatever, you want to stay back around corners and in bushes 100% of the time, because the best thing you can do for your team is show up a second or two late with your ultimate.
It's tough - in the games I play, without Malphite it is sooooooooooooo difficult to time that ult properly. I mean literally if you're even one second off you look at a useless ult and usually a dead Fiddle/team. That's why when I play with my Fiddle friend I really really really want to play Malphite, but I can only jungle Malph and it's hard to find someone who can play a 1v2 ;/
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being good at 1v2 is really hard because it's almost always matchup dependent whether 1v2 is even remotely manageable. I think I'm going to pick up Nidalee again to try to cover those 1v2s when you go malph, cause TF just doesn't cut it in a lot of 1v1s, let alone 1v2s.
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1v2?? Mogwai Your taking Mai JURRRB!!!
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no, I'm just gonna play TF when you're around :p. Unless I play Ashe and lane switch after feeding mid, setting up for the 10 minute, 4 man gank mid, which combos perfectly in /laugh spam. That strategy is pretty much unbeatable unless Alan ruins everything by letting his computer automatically shut down.
it's just when we have Passion, Turkey, Uta, Existichi, and myself that we get raped in 1v2s.
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United States37500 Posts
How does TF not cut it? Late game TF with lizard is just obscene. ;\
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Yeah, when we have Steve but not Baikin it really messes up team compo, lol.
Cuz we really need that Malphite for the Fiddle, but if I Malphite we need a 1v2, and Passion gets his face smashed in 1v1 Annie vs Annie so we need some buffer for that. Yargh, the complexity.
Edit:
TF is pretty terrible 1v1, even worse 1v2. His short range and his lack of burst damage makes him inferior to almost every solo-mid hero in the game, lol.
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On April 17 2010 03:31 NeoIllusions wrote:
How does TF not cut it? Late game TF with lizard is just obscene. ;\
well, see, we're talking about early game here... if you get staved enough by a powerful early lane, it doesn't matter how good your late game is. As southlight said... you just don't do enough burst in solo lanes with TF. You have a small stun that you can stack with stacked deck and do a nice small burst, but then when your up against like, Annie, Nidalee, Trist, Anivia... etc etc etc, you start to realize just how passive you have to play the early game to not get completely rolled by a competent opponent. Move that over to a solo side lane and things are even worse... if they stack 1 stun + exhaust or 2 stuns, you're pretty much dead any time you over extend and you can't harass them effectively enough to legitimately scare them off of you.
...and I even have issue with your last statement there... I mean, late game TF is really good, but if you wanna talk about obscene with lizard buff, you should probably talk about Trist, Ez, and Twitch long before you start talking about TF (they all get much larger AS bonuses from skills than TF). The only reason he's worth playing over those characters are 1) he has a reasonably good stun and 2) he backdoors like a fucking champ (also other teleport things, but this is the big one in the late game), but in terms of sheer carrying ability from sustained DPS, he's outclassed by those 3 and Corki at least.
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I can't think of any solo mid hero TF beats except another TF and Sivir, except you don't even see Sivir solo mid anymore >_>
Edit:
I must say I was super duper sad when Nidalee nailed me with a Javelin just a hair in my own tower, but unfortunately out of range for their creep. So I ate Nid + whole group of creep for 5 seconds and died  That suuuuuuuucked but at least I got revenge later :x
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Hey guys, I been playin LoL for the past few months, and I'm pretty good. I know I'm not high-elo because of just sheer amount of games played (60% win rate with about 170 games played), but I know enough. Anyway, if you have malphite and fiddle on a team and need a 1v2, I'd strongly recommend Nasus. He's almost impossible to kill (ghost/cleanse is the only choice for summoner spells) even in a 2v1 lane. 2v1 you can just sit at the turret and spam spirit fire and wither anyone who tries to turret dive you. It's only difficult when you get double cc lanes, but even then it's pretty damn hard to kill him. Having a successful early game with that team comp should rape too. Malphite's AoE stun + fiddle ult + nasus ult and basically one shotting squishies (SF, run in with ghost, pop ult, cleanse if necessary, and SS the annie/ryze/other squishie massive dps) would be pretty fucking hard to deal with. It also puts the enemy in a very hard position, focus fiddle cuz he's doing 478563405 dps or focus nasus who's draining 5% of everyones hp every second, who also has 2+k hp (always build nasus for hybrid off-tank) and a ridiculous burst q. That's not even taking into account the other two, who should probably be either dps or support. Anyways, just my thoughts on the matter. Stoned_Rabbit in LoL if anyone wants to play sometime.
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So is there a Team Liquid for LoL? Would be really glad to be apart of a community. ign is PvP Unbreakable.
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ummmm, yea... I dunno, he's not bad vs. some of the rarer ones -_-... like, I guess I don't hate the ezreal or karthus or even kat matchups. and like, he can not get his shit completely packed in by some bursters by using your gold card judiciously (ex. gold carding trist as she jumps, but you typically still have to retreat cause she'll kill you on sustained damage, LOL), but yea, in general, all the matchups are pretty rough .
yea, I guess Nasus fits the bill on paper fairly well. he sorta just likes to sit back and farm SF anyway, so he'd fit that role, I'd just be worried of the tower eating too much damage too quickly. Nothing like losing a side tower in < 10 minutes to make your solo mid's life miserable. tbh though, I have no idea how to play Nasus well and have probably only seen 1 or 2 good Nasus players ever -_-'
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I think Nasus has the same issue as uhhh, Sivir, in that the creep-razing potential is good after a bit, but it's too late against a good pushing team. Granted, Baikin said he struggles against Soraka + Ez, but that's an extreme example. I think even an Alistar would ruin a solo Nasus' day, by pushing down that tower fast.
I actually think solo Kennen or solo Shen are pretty good; it's two games now that I've been pounded by a 1v2 Kennen.
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EPT
