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pokeyAA
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States936 Posts
April 06 2010 01:06 GMT
#2481
I run flash/ignite on Ezreal. I like being aggressive with Ezreal and after bursting down someone with your combo, flash is a lifesaver on the occasions where your E is on cooldown.

I like AP ezreal because I feel more mobile. Like I said I play pretty aggressively, and sitting there trying to autoattack someone to death with AD gets me killed more often then AP. I tried to explain it in my first post, AP just fits my playstyle better, I kite better, move better, without being overly focused on getting my attack speed stacks up. With that said, I haven't met a AD ezreal yet that made me think their style was better.

I also feel more useful in team fights with AP. Making the comparison to Trist is a bit unfair as Trist's range is better without taking less risks. Also I solo queue a lot, so there's always a sivir/ashe/trist going the DPS route.

BTW for those who used to main/play Kat a lot, what build do you guys go with Ez?
Kat used to be my most played champ before she got nerfed into oblivion using the Furor build, and I find that style similar to AP ezreal.
Alchemyst
Profile Joined August 2009
United States36 Posts
April 06 2010 01:17 GMT
#2482
I've done a 3 tanky-team on TT with Revive and Tele.
It's just so lulzy. You get back and can stop pushes, early game revive is pretty amazing.

Same game, we rushed HoGs and went Guards/Sunfires.
So that just made us literally always alive, or at least 1/2 of us.

Is it worth not going ghost/whatever, etc? No, I don't think so.
Fun to do though.
Fantasy and Stork Fanboy.
oberon
Profile Joined May 2009
United States1320 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-06 01:54:25
April 06 2010 01:31 GMT
#2483
On April 06 2010 07:37 Khenra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2010 07:27 jodogohoo wrote:
-_- whats the best way to spend my points? save up for tier 3 runes or start buying characters


I'd advise you buy one character you have had good experiences with and then start buying your tier 3 runes one at a time. Some pages ago someone posted a good general rune page to build up, one that would fit most characters. I'll sum it up quickly:

Red: Armor penetration or Magic penetration (410 a piece)
Yellow: Dodge (820 a piece, expensive, get these last unless you like playing tank)
Blue: Mp5/level (205 a piece, cheap and very effective) or the expensive cooldown reduce (820 a piece)

Quint: HP (2000 a piece, expensive)





As far as I can tell, MP5 is NOT primary on blue. I recommend cooldown reduction, for a few reasons:

1) In the very early game, mana regen is better. However, you can buy meki/mana manip -- -CD is not available until later.

2) In the midgame, -CD is better than mana regen.

3) In the end game, you probably have enough mana that it doesn't matter, and have often hit the 40% CD cap. Nonetheless, I think you're more likely to have excess mana than to hit the CD cap.

Semi-related: auras can affect any champ twice -- once from themselves, and once from someone else. Given this, I think it would be funny to have a lane with, say, Sivir/Janna/some other high range, pass-through-skill-shotting character, (edit: Anivia) with all runes spent on (edit: )MP5 and each opening with a mana manipulator. The harass spam would be pretty hard to deal with early on. It could also transition into dual soul shroud (same idea, but with CD reduction for when you have more mana) or soul shroud + innervating locket (no more duplication).

Anyone have other hero combination suggestions?

Additional edit, since I'm now getting interested in this:

With max mana regen runes and 2 mana manipulators, you have +26.97 MP5. For comparison, Janna needs 36.36 MP5 to spam her whirlwind at level 1, Sivir needs 44.44 MP5 to spam level 1 boomerang, and Anivia needs 30.77 for level 1 flash frost. Cho'Gath needs 40 for level 1 rupture, though I'm not sure that's as spammable. TF's wild cards need 50 at level 1 (!), and don't hit that hard. Zilean and his annoying bombs are another candidate, despite not having the range of some of the other skillshots -- he only needs 30 MP5 for them at level 1, but once they're level 2 and he has level 1 rewind he can eat through more than twice that.
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-06 03:40:15
April 06 2010 02:41 GMT
#2484
Don't forget the utility masteries. They add 3/sec - that's a HUGE 15/5 - plus 4%. In other words, about 42 MP5.
Definitely also add Karthus to the list of people who could do this because he drains mana like a clever analogy. Manamanip doesn't build into anything great for him, unfortunately.

Let's do a Soraka/Ryze lane where they spam Starcall and Spell Flux. It's a really irritating pair to lane against. Leaving Spell Flux and Starcall at level 1 gives
+ Show Spoiler [math] +
42 Mana / 3 seconds = 14 Mana/sec = 70 (O_O) Mp5 for Starcall. Of course, this can be dealt with by maxing Infuse, but that leaves Soraka with a rather weak heal. Still, the -MR gets absolutely insane.
60 Mana / 9 seconds = 6.6667 Mana/sec = 33.333... Mp5 for Spell Flux. Piece of cake - this even allows for a couple Overloads. This means Soraka can keep up a steady Infuse on herself, giving her 16.5 Mp5 at level 1, 33 at level 2, and nearly 50 Mp5 at level 3. The downside, of course, is Bless only providing 45 Hp5 and eating just as much in mana. Leveling it up once increases the mana burden to 55 Mp5 (though that doesn't really apply, since you hopefully won't be using it every time it's up) and boosting the healing to 75 Hp5. This means a nice compromise build would be something like WQEEW (obviously depending on how important healing is). Soraka could even run Clarity, too - it would allow for optimal runes and boost Ryze's mana.

THE BUILD (which I need to try out in a premade some time):
Soraka/Ryze dual lane
Soraka 9/0/21 Clarity, Flash, Ryze 9/0/21 Ghost or Port, Flash; mpen, hp/lvl, mp5, flatHP on Soraka, flatHP or MS on Ryze.
Both get a Manamanip. Harass the crap outta them. Best part is this is flexible enough to deal with being outharassed (focus on bless instead of starcall). Build Soul Shroud. This, with masteries, will max both their cooldown reductions and give them each a sizable 520 hp.
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5459 Posts
April 06 2010 03:21 GMT
#2485
On April 06 2010 10:06 pokeyAA wrote:
I run flash/ignite on Ezreal. I like being aggressive with Ezreal and after bursting down someone with your combo, flash is a lifesaver on the occasions where your E is on cooldown.

I like AP ezreal because I feel more mobile. Like I said I play pretty aggressively, and sitting there trying to autoattack someone to death with AD gets me killed more often then AP. I tried to explain it in my first post, AP just fits my playstyle better, I kite better, move better, without being overly focused on getting my attack speed stacks up. With that said, I haven't met a AD ezreal yet that made me think their style was better.

I also feel more useful in team fights with AP. Making the comparison to Trist is a bit unfair as Trist's range is better without taking less risks. Also I solo queue a lot, so there's always a sivir/ashe/trist going the DPS route.

BTW for those who used to main/play Kat a lot, what build do you guys go with Ez?
Kat used to be my most played champ before she got nerfed into oblivion using the Furor build, and I find that style similar to AP ezreal.
i have to say the single worst thing that stifled my growth as a kat player was furor's guide. it is way too cautious and some of his purchases are absolutely retarded (heart of gold or phage or aegis? really? wtf?). also kat's development through the course of a game is highly situational and you can't just say "oh get ______ then ______". i dont even decide whether im going AP or AD usually until after spirit visage because kat can transition into either one so easily.

i don't really see how the play styles are similar though. for me kat is absolutely berserk aggressive early game while ez seems more tactical trying to slowly pick apart the opponent. as i said earlier i try go AD ez and had very disappointing results going Dorans Ring->Boots->Sheen->RoA->LichBane with AP ez.
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
April 06 2010 03:40 GMT
#2486
On April 06 2010 10:31 oberon wrote:
As far as I can tell, MP5 is NOT primary on blue. I recommend cooldown reduction, for a few reasons:

1) In the very early game, mana regen is better. However, you can buy meki/mana manip -- -CD is not available until later.

2) In the midgame, -CD is better than mana regen.

3) In the end game, you probably have enough mana that it doesn't matter, and have often hit the 40% CD cap. Nonetheless, I think you're more likely to have excess mana than to hit the CD cap.

Magic Resist/Level is more universally useful than either CD or Mp5/Level. No one is sad about having a Magic Resist supplement. I guess no one's sad about CD redux, but on a lot of champions, it's barely useful at all.

The reason I run Mp5/Level a lot is because Meki/Manipulator build into diddly-fucking-squat on most AD centric heroes, and meanwhile, many of the ones I play are heavily reliant on having mana to spare (Pantheon, TF, Nidalee, all like casting spells a lot, and not investing in shit mana regen items that slow my build down by 400 gold). CD redux is nice and all, but for a lot of champions, it's so much more useful to not have to throw away 390 on an early meki just to remain relevant on a lane.

On April 06 2010 10:31 oberon wrote:Semi-related: auras can affect any champ twice -- once from themselves, and once from someone else. Given this, I think it would be funny to have a lane with, say, Sivir/Janna/some other high range, pass-through-skill-shotting character, (edit: Anivia) with all runes spent on (edit: )MP5 and each opening with a mana manipulator. The harass spam would be pretty hard to deal with early on. It could also transition into dual soul shroud (same idea, but with CD reduction for when you have more mana) or soul shroud + innervating locket (no more duplication).

Anyone have other hero combination suggestions?

Additional edit, since I'm now getting interested in this:

With max mana regen runes and 2 mana manipulators, you have +26.97 MP5. For comparison, Janna needs 36.36 MP5 to spam her whirlwind at level 1, Sivir needs 44.44 MP5 to spam level 1 boomerang, and Anivia needs 30.77 for level 1 flash frost. Cho'Gath needs 40 for level 1 rupture, though I'm not sure that's as spammable. TF's wild cards need 50 at level 1 (!), and don't hit that hard. Zilean and his annoying bombs are another candidate, despite not having the range of some of the other skillshots -- he only needs 30 MP5 for them at level 1, but once they're level 2 and he has level 1 rewind he can eat through more than twice that.

iirc, they made all auras unique, which means they don't stack like that any more. The last time I tested Aegis stacking, the max was 2 stacks and it was only 2 stacks for the two guys with the aegis, everyone else around only got 1 stack. I dunno, I guess MM might be different though.

On April 06 2010 11:41 Tooplark wrote:
Don't forget the utility masteries. They add 3/sec - that's a HUGE 15/5 - plus 4%. In other words, about 42 MP5.
Definitely also add Karthus to the list of people who could do this because he drains mana like a clever analogy. Manamanip doesn't build into anything great for him, unfortunately.

nononononononono, jesus christ that would be busted. Meditation is 0.33 mana regen/sec per point, in other words 1.0 mana regen/sec when maxed, in other words 5/5. If it was 15/5, man... uhg, let's not even get started on how stupid ezreal would be early game. And how on earth did you arrive at 42mp5 with a 4% bonus? It's like, you just take your mana/health regen and multiply them both by 1.04, in other words, a pretty insignificant boost. Hell, just thinking about it, I'm starting to reconsider putting points there instead of in good hands :p.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
pokeyAA
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States936 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-06 04:38:41
April 06 2010 04:37 GMT
#2487
On April 06 2010 12:21 redtooth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2010 10:06 pokeyAA wrote:
I run flash/ignite on Ezreal. I like being aggressive with Ezreal and after bursting down someone with your combo, flash is a lifesaver on the occasions where your E is on cooldown.

I like AP ezreal because I feel more mobile. Like I said I play pretty aggressively, and sitting there trying to autoattack someone to death with AD gets me killed more often then AP. I tried to explain it in my first post, AP just fits my playstyle better, I kite better, move better, without being overly focused on getting my attack speed stacks up. With that said, I haven't met a AD ezreal yet that made me think their style was better.

I also feel more useful in team fights with AP. Making the comparison to Trist is a bit unfair as Trist's range is better without taking less risks. Also I solo queue a lot, so there's always a sivir/ashe/trist going the DPS route.

BTW for those who used to main/play Kat a lot, what build do you guys go with Ez?
Kat used to be my most played champ before she got nerfed into oblivion using the Furor build, and I find that style similar to AP ezreal.
i have to say the single worst thing that stifled my growth as a kat player was furor's guide. it is way too cautious and some of his purchases are absolutely retarded (heart of gold or phage or aegis? really? wtf?). also kat's development through the course of a game is highly situational and you can't just say "oh get ______ then ______". i dont even decide whether im going AP or AD usually until after spirit visage because kat can transition into either one so easily.

i don't really see how the play styles are similar though. for me kat is absolutely berserk aggressive early game while ez seems more tactical trying to slowly pick apart the opponent. as i said earlier i try go AD ez and had very disappointing results going Dorans Ring->Boots->Sheen->RoA->LichBane with AP ez.


Err Furor's guide did not have phage or aegis at its core. It was doran's shield, boot 1, heart of gold, then stacking bf swords. Like it or not, even the people who hated him utterly admitted he was the best Kat. This is the reason why Kat was nerfed, as there was no point in going AP, AD kat was just that much better.

They are similar in the way that they both harass/chip away at enemies (BB vs MS) until they can flash in (shunpo vs arcane shift) and finish their opponents.
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5459 Posts
April 06 2010 07:22 GMT
#2488
ok so i wrote this huge post in response to pokeyAA's post but it ended up being more a rant of how awesome AP kat is instead of answering the original question. tl;dr, BB has short range while MS has huge range.

here's the original post in case you want to know more about kat:
+ Show Spoiler +
AP kat is better in 90% of situations. harassing with BB is walking the thinnest of tight ropes since its range is so short and requires you to get in range of so many CCs. i go AD when i feel like there will be a prolonged midgame due to laning stages ending earlier then normal, when there isnt much CC or long range snipes to kill me, or when my team has no pushing power. Ezreal can stand in the back and harass but Kat has to run to the front to harass (unless you're referring to KI+BB on creeps but that has its own set of problems).

on the other hand, AP actually scales lotus BETTER than AD since it costs more to obtain 1 damage than it does to get 1 AP.
BF Sword: 50 damage // 1850 gold
Ratio: 1 damage // 37 gold
Lotus Scaling: 1 damage // 74 gold

Blasting Wand: 40 ability // 860 gold
Ratio: 1 ability // 21.5 gold
Lotus Scaling: 1 damage // 72 gold
the benefits of AP items VASTLY outweigh AD items. rylais is the single best item Kat can get and makes BB a mass debuff, shunpo a godly chasing spell, lotus similar to nunu's ultimate, and provides much needed health. kat can really benefit from the zhonya active. void staff is godly. abyssal staff is situational but awesome with its ridiculous mRes and relatively cheap cost. on the other hand, having to maintain BT stacks reduces her team utility since you have to play more cautious instead of hopping in and taking down as many as you can with you.

like it or not kat is all about her one burst and trying to keep lotus ready as often as possible through voracity. she becomes an absolute ganking monster as soon as she gets rylais. without it people just walk out of range of lotus so AD actually does even less real damage.
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
oberon
Profile Joined May 2009
United States1320 Posts
April 06 2010 11:12 GMT
#2489
On April 06 2010 11:41 Tooplark wrote:
Don't forget the utility masteries. They add 3/sec - that's a HUGE 15/5 - plus 4%. In other words, about 42 MP5.
Definitely also add Karthus to the list of people who could do this because he drains mana like a clever analogy. Manamanip doesn't build into anything great for him, unfortunately.

Let's do a Soraka/Ryze lane where they spam Starcall and Spell Flux. It's a really irritating pair to lane against. Leaving Spell Flux and Starcall at level 1 gives
+ Show Spoiler [math] +
42 Mana / 3 seconds = 14 Mana/sec = 70 (O_O) Mp5 for Starcall. Of course, this can be dealt with by maxing Infuse, but that leaves Soraka with a rather weak heal. Still, the -MR gets absolutely insane.
60 Mana / 9 seconds = 6.6667 Mana/sec = 33.333... Mp5 for Spell Flux. Piece of cake - this even allows for a couple Overloads. This means Soraka can keep up a steady Infuse on herself, giving her 16.5 Mp5 at level 1, 33 at level 2, and nearly 50 Mp5 at level 3. The downside, of course, is Bless only providing 45 Hp5 and eating just as much in mana. Leveling it up once increases the mana burden to 55 Mp5 (though that doesn't really apply, since you hopefully won't be using it every time it's up) and boosting the healing to 75 Hp5. This means a nice compromise build would be something like WQEEW (obviously depending on how important healing is). Soraka could even run Clarity, too - it would allow for optimal runes and boost Ryze's mana.

THE BUILD (which I need to try out in a premade some time):
Soraka/Ryze dual lane
Soraka 9/0/21 Clarity, Flash, Ryze 9/0/21 Ghost or Port, Flash; mpen, hp/lvl, mp5, flatHP on Soraka, flatHP or MS on Ryze.
Both get a Manamanip. Harass the crap outta them. Best part is this is flexible enough to deal with being outharassed (focus on bless instead of starcall). Build Soul Shroud. This, with masteries, will max both their cooldown reductions and give them each a sizable 520 hp.


First off, your numbers are wrong: you get 5MP5 from the flat bonus, and +4% from the percent bonus. Additionally, I forgot the base MP5 that all characters have -- for Anivia this is 4.5. That does bring level 1 MP% up to 37.93, however, which is a sizable boost.

As to characters -- the reason I don't like Soraka or Ryze for this is that their range isn't that great. Yes, if you have creeps to bounce off, or opponents willing to come close, it's fine. But the other characters I list (except Zilean, which is why he's borderline) can take potshots at people even if they're tower-hugging. If we're assuming the level 1 spam is so annoying it'll push people back quickly, then next priority has to be having skills that can hit tower-huggers.
Ota Solgryn
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark2011 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-06 12:49:05
April 06 2010 12:48 GMT
#2490
I just started playing shaco. So far I build him as a kind of 1 hitter, that jumps in to battle after my teams initiator has done his thing and tries to take out damaged dps's or ryze (who is always on the opposing team). So I go for boots that counters the other teams heros and then I save up for IE.
Masteries and runes go for mana + flat extra dmg.

Next items depends on the situation, if I need more MR or armor or just more dmg.

What do you guys think about this build. So far it is going so so, but the fails are mainly me doing some retarted shit.

The good thing about this build is that it allows me to take down towers very hard with shaco ulti, while I almost always get 1 or two kills in big battles.
ihasaKAROT: "Wish people would stop wasting their lives on finding flaws in others"
bellweather
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States404 Posts
April 06 2010 13:16 GMT
#2491
On April 06 2010 21:48 Ota Solgryn wrote:
I just started playing shaco. So far I build him as a kind of 1 hitter, that jumps in to battle after my teams initiator has done his thing and tries to take out damaged dps's or ryze (who is always on the opposing team). So I go for boots that counters the other teams heros and then I save up for IE.
Masteries and runes go for mana + flat extra dmg.

Next items depends on the situation, if I need more MR or armor or just more dmg.

What do you guys think about this build. So far it is going so so, but the fails are mainly me doing some retarted shit.

The good thing about this build is that it allows me to take down towers very hard with shaco ulti, while I almost always get 1 or two kills in big battles.


I think in general it's pretty brutal saving up for IE as a core item. My build after playing Shaco for 40ish games is Boots and Health Pots-> Madred's Razors-> Boots 2-> Phage-> Stark's-> Madred's Bloodrazor/ Frozen Mallet/ Black Cleaver (depending on the situation). Somewhat low on damage, but allows you to keep your target in place and Stark's is always useful for a team (skipped if a team member has it/ is hell bent on getting it). If I had enough IP for a specialized Shaco rune page I'd run crit damage/armor pen, but alas I am IP poor. A lot of your damage early game is going to depend on Deceive's boosted damage out of stealth and finishing with the Shiv, crit damage/armor pen help greatly with that.

As an aside, if you're solo queueing odds are you can get lizard buff level 1 uninterrupted with JitB and from there attempt a first blood if it hasn't happened yet.
A mathematician is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat which isnt' there. -Charles Darwin
Brees
Profile Joined January 2010
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
April 06 2010 14:02 GMT
#2492
nothing gets me off like bushwhacking a jitb stack.
Brees on in
Ota Solgryn
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark2011 Posts
April 06 2010 14:05 GMT
#2493
On April 06 2010 22:16 InsideTheBox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2010 21:48 Ota Solgryn wrote:
I just started playing shaco. So far I build him as a kind of 1 hitter, that jumps in to battle after my teams initiator has done his thing and tries to take out damaged dps's or ryze (who is always on the opposing team). So I go for boots that counters the other teams heros and then I save up for IE.
Masteries and runes go for mana + flat extra dmg.

Next items depends on the situation, if I need more MR or armor or just more dmg.

What do you guys think about this build. So far it is going so so, but the fails are mainly me doing some retarted shit.

The good thing about this build is that it allows me to take down towers very hard with shaco ulti, while I almost always get 1 or two kills in big battles.


I think in general it's pretty brutal saving up for IE as a core item. My build after playing Shaco for 40ish games is Boots and Health Pots-> Madred's Razors-> Boots 2-> Phage-> Stark's-> Madred's Bloodrazor/ Frozen Mallet/ Black Cleaver (depending on the situation). Somewhat low on damage, but allows you to keep your target in place and Stark's is always useful for a team (skipped if a team member has it/ is hell bent on getting it). If I had enough IP for a specialized Shaco rune page I'd run crit damage/armor pen, but alas I am IP poor. A lot of your damage early game is going to depend on Deceive's boosted damage out of stealth and finishing with the Shiv, crit damage/armor pen help greatly with that.

As an aside, if you're solo queueing odds are you can get lizard buff level 1 uninterrupted with JitB and from there attempt a first blood if it hasn't happened yet.


Yeah Im doing the lizard buff every game.
ihasaKAROT: "Wish people would stop wasting their lives on finding flaws in others"
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11766 Posts
April 06 2010 15:09 GMT
#2494
MM and Aegis both only stack for each character that has it.

The point was that, and Turkey and I have done this before, you can take two heroes that are mana-guzzlers and bring MM on them together in one lane. So we ended up with Zil and Heimer lane with double MM, which gave us crazy mana regen. Then we'd just turn them into a locket and a shroud as the game went on.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
April 06 2010 15:18 GMT
#2495
On April 06 2010 23:02 Brees wrote:
nothing gets me off like bushwhacking a jitb stack.

I really like bushwhacking mushrooms too, though jitb stacks are more satisfying.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11766 Posts
April 06 2010 15:24 GMT
#2496
I get angry when someone bushwhacks a ward.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
April 06 2010 15:44 GMT
#2497
god, nidalee is great, I need to work her back into my rotation.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
pokeyAA
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States936 Posts
April 06 2010 16:03 GMT
#2498
On April 06 2010 16:22 redtooth wrote:
ok so i wrote this huge post in response to pokeyAA's post but it ended up being more a rant of how awesome AP kat is instead of answering the original question. tl;dr, BB has short range while MS has huge range.

here's the original post in case you want to know more about kat:
+ Show Spoiler +
AP kat is better in 90% of situations. harassing with BB is walking the thinnest of tight ropes since its range is so short and requires you to get in range of so many CCs. i go AD when i feel like there will be a prolonged midgame due to laning stages ending earlier then normal, when there isnt much CC or long range snipes to kill me, or when my team has no pushing power. Ezreal can stand in the back and harass but Kat has to run to the front to harass (unless you're referring to KI+BB on creeps but that has its own set of problems).

on the other hand, AP actually scales lotus BETTER than AD since it costs more to obtain 1 damage than it does to get 1 AP.
BF Sword: 50 damage // 1850 gold
Ratio: 1 damage // 37 gold
Lotus Scaling: 1 damage // 74 gold

Blasting Wand: 40 ability // 860 gold
Ratio: 1 ability // 21.5 gold
Lotus Scaling: 1 damage // 72 gold
the benefits of AP items VASTLY outweigh AD items. rylais is the single best item Kat can get and makes BB a mass debuff, shunpo a godly chasing spell, lotus similar to nunu's ultimate, and provides much needed health. kat can really benefit from the zhonya active. void staff is godly. abyssal staff is situational but awesome with its ridiculous mRes and relatively cheap cost. on the other hand, having to maintain BT stacks reduces her team utility since you have to play more cautious instead of hopping in and taking down as many as you can with you.

like it or not kat is all about her one burst and trying to keep lotus ready as often as possible through voracity. she becomes an absolute ganking monster as soon as she gets rylais. without it people just walk out of range of lotus so AD actually does even less real damage.


I'm not arguing that AP kat is better now, but AD kat was undeniably better when Furor's guide came out. After the 2 consecutive nerfs to AD's ult scaling AND nerf to BB range, of course AP Kat is better. But before the nerfs, hell no. Stacked BF swords/bloodthirsters made your ult melt people.
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
April 06 2010 21:22 GMT
#2499
On April 06 2010 20:12 oberon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2010 11:41 Tooplark wrote:
Don't forget the utility masteries. They add 3/sec - that's a HUGE 15/5 - plus 4%. In other words, about 42 MP5.
Definitely also add Karthus to the list of people who could do this because he drains mana like a clever analogy. Manamanip doesn't build into anything great for him, unfortunately.

Let's do a Soraka/Ryze lane where they spam Starcall and Spell Flux. It's a really irritating pair to lane against. Leaving Spell Flux and Starcall at level 1 gives
+ Show Spoiler [math] +
42 Mana / 3 seconds = 14 Mana/sec = 70 (O_O) Mp5 for Starcall. Of course, this can be dealt with by maxing Infuse, but that leaves Soraka with a rather weak heal. Still, the -MR gets absolutely insane.
60 Mana / 9 seconds = 6.6667 Mana/sec = 33.333... Mp5 for Spell Flux. Piece of cake - this even allows for a couple Overloads. This means Soraka can keep up a steady Infuse on herself, giving her 16.5 Mp5 at level 1, 33 at level 2, and nearly 50 Mp5 at level 3. The downside, of course, is Bless only providing 45 Hp5 and eating just as much in mana. Leveling it up once increases the mana burden to 55 Mp5 (though that doesn't really apply, since you hopefully won't be using it every time it's up) and boosting the healing to 75 Hp5. This means a nice compromise build would be something like WQEEW (obviously depending on how important healing is). Soraka could even run Clarity, too - it would allow for optimal runes and boost Ryze's mana.

THE BUILD (which I need to try out in a premade some time):
Soraka/Ryze dual lane
Soraka 9/0/21 Clarity, Flash, Ryze 9/0/21 Ghost or Port, Flash; mpen, hp/lvl, mp5, flatHP on Soraka, flatHP or MS on Ryze.
Both get a Manamanip. Harass the crap outta them. Best part is this is flexible enough to deal with being outharassed (focus on bless instead of starcall). Build Soul Shroud. This, with masteries, will max both their cooldown reductions and give them each a sizable 520 hp.


First off, your numbers are wrong: you get 5MP5 from the flat bonus, and +4% from the percent bonus. Additionally, I forgot the base MP5 that all characters have -- for Anivia this is 4.5. That does bring level 1 MP% up to 37.93, however, which is a sizable boost.

As to characters -- the reason I don't like Soraka or Ryze for this is that their range isn't that great. Yes, if you have creeps to bounce off, or opponents willing to come close, it's fine. But the other characters I list (except Zilean, which is why he's borderline) can take potshots at people even if they're tower-hugging. If we're assuming the level 1 spam is so annoying it'll push people back quickly, then next priority has to be having skills that can hit tower-huggers.


Oops I fail at math. (I thought it was 1 per level which would be stupid.) Still, the base Mp5 should make up for that somewhat. It's enough for constant Spell Flux.

What makes Soraka/Ryze so nasty is the dual MR debuff. If they're being outharassed, then Soraka can invest more in healing and keep them both in. Point taken about their short ranges, though.
Definitely add Karth to the list of candidates.
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11766 Posts
April 06 2010 21:43 GMT
#2500
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/4265/fail780.jpg

This dude fed solo Udyr at bot, so that they were level 5 and Udyr was level 9.
Then he's like, farming at bot lane, at the brush bottom right, except we have no towers at bot, and is like I THOUGHT YOU GUYS WERE CLOSE

'Cept we're all at top/mid

No Life
No Skill
No Hope

GG
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
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