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On February 02 2011 00:00 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 01:42 Fraidnot wrote:
Blitzkrieger, don't play on hardcore. I know it says "HARDCORE" but I could put that label on a Martha Stewart DVD and it wouldn't make it any better. Hardcore is less balanced and it rewards to many stupid things like those snipers you complain about. Kill cams and minimaps keep players honest and makes for a better game(note the fact that I use the word game and not COMBAT SIMULATOR!!!). In my humble opinion, hardcore is for people who like Call of Duty, abusers, and xbox gamers. yeah no HC is where the best people play. you get punished for running out into open spaces, shitty players cant just get killed to spot a sniper's location, team damage is on so you can't just spam rockets or grenades on rush attack if someone is trying to plant, etc etc. this is like arguing that fastest map ever takes more skill than blizz maps in starcraft. just... no. i mean the biggest tipoff that you dont know what youre talking about is that you compared it COD of all things... BF is similar to that game only in that both use guns. it's totally different gameplay.
I've played a bit of HC every now and then and my main concern with it is that it totally kills what the makes the game fun for me, i.e. the fast-paced combat. I have no problem with the increased difficulty due to less health and all the other limitations, but I loathe how slow most HC rounds are played.
If I'd enjoy re-enacting the battle for Verdun then HC would probably be awesome, but I don't see the point in dragging games out to a ridiculous length and overly rewarding campers. Because that's what happens. Pretty much all HC games I've played were either dominated by a cleverly hidden sniper or a team based around medics, literally forcing stalemates or excruciatingly slow advances on the map. This may be more "realistic" or "hardcore" and will probably appeal to some, but it's not how I like my BC2. It's a shooter after all and not a jungle-crouching simulation.
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I stopped playing a while ago because public players are just too stupid. It annoys me so much to lose/get owned just because the community/normal players are retarded. Totally losing? Well I guess I have to be the 10th sniper in my team. Die while spawning on a teammate? Try again. 10 times. I am not winning? Leave server.
Horrible, just horrible. Even worse are the players that think they are good when the their team has 5-8 more players and they leave as soon as they don't win anymore. The community is what completely kills this game (clans are also most of the time really really bad) which is too bad because aside from some balance issues it was the best shooter in years.
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On February 06 2011 01:49 Rflcrx wrote:
I stopped playing a while ago because public players are just too stupid. It annoys me so much to lose/get owned just because the community/normal players are retarded. Totally losing? Well I guess I have to be the 10th sniper in my team. Die while spawning on a teammate? Try again. 10 times. I am not winning? Leave server.
Horrible, just horrible. Even worse are the players that think they are good when the their team has 5-8 more players and they leave as soon as they don't win anymore. The community is what completely kills this game (clans are also most of the time really really bad) which is too bad because aside from some balance issues it was the best shooter in years.
The absolute worst part is when the game starts, they don't even wait for people to hop onto the vehicles, they just take off, leaving like 5 people to run to the frontlines...Oh, I play battlefield 1943 lol, but probably same thing in the newer games.
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On January 15 2011 01:42 Fraidnot wrote:
Blitzkrieger, don't play on hardcore. I know it says "HARDCORE" but I could put that label on a Martha Stewart DVD and it wouldn't make it any better. Hardcore is less balanced and it rewards to many stupid things like those snipers you complain about. Kill cams and minimaps keep players honest and makes for a better game(note the fact that I use the word game and not COMBAT SIMULATOR!!!). In my humble opinion, hardcore is for people who like Call of Duty, abusers, and xbox gamers.
Hardcore is the only mode that is any good. Kill cams, red triangles giving away enemies, and 50 bullets to kill is terrible.
Id rather use my eyes to find enemies and not fire a full clip into someone to kill them.
Also snipers would be useless on normal since 3 of the bolts cant 1 hit kill people w/o body armor. As it is sniping isnt viable in hardcore since every other weapon is just as good or almost as good as a sniper while being MUCH easier to use and no bush giving you away...
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Just played with a couple friends again today and when we joined, our team turned from terribly mediocre and unable to make progress to rolling the opposition.
I managed to get kicked by a server automation for when you have too high a ratio of kills per minute, I mean seriously.
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United Arab Emirates18 Posts
On February 06 2011 03:56 blitzkrieger wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 01:42 Fraidnot wrote:
Blitzkrieger, don't play on hardcore. I know it says "HARDCORE" but I could put that label on a Martha Stewart DVD and it wouldn't make it any better. Hardcore is less balanced and it rewards to many stupid things like those snipers you complain about. Kill cams and minimaps keep players honest and makes for a better game(note the fact that I use the word game and not COMBAT SIMULATOR!!!). In my humble opinion, hardcore is for people who like Call of Duty, abusers, and xbox gamers. Hardcore is the only mode that is any good. Kill cams, red triangles giving away enemies, and 50 bullets to kill is terrible. Id rather use my eyes to find enemies and not fire a full clip into someone to kill them. Also snipers would be useless on normal since 3 of the bolts cant 1 hit kill people w/o body armor. As it is sniping isnt viable in hardcore since every other weapon is just as good or almost as good as a sniper while being MUCH easier to use and no bush giving you away...
Its a matter of preference I guess, personally I like the faster paced non-HC games. Relying on red triangles is not a good idea and guns depend on which part of him are you aiming at.
Sniping is still very powerful though, as soon as you get used to the bullet trajectory of a certain rifle you can get head shots regularly.
If I play HC I'm sure I wouldn't get far since I'm a bad camper and I only have limited time to play. TKs + Camping + Serious people etc... It might feel more like work.
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It's not a matter of preference, Hardcore is a game with less depth that rewards gimmicky play, what is a matter of preference is if you like that sort of stuff.
It's not worth going for head shots in Hardcore to the same extent that it is in normal mode. That alone should end discussion. More health rewards better play. When only one bullet kills a guy that means that every gun battle turns into a best of one match between players. A noob player can get a lucky shot and kill you in a best of one, not so in a best of 99. It's harder to kill players in normal mode. Thinking Hardcore is the better game because it takes less bullets is like thinking fastest is better than 1v1 because "it's so fast!"
There are so many elements of the game that just get turned off in Hardcore (I could make fastest comparisons all day) like healing player, resupplying, and motion mines. Hell, the number of bullets in your clip matters more in normal. These are elements that enrich play not make it simpler.
Battlefield is a team game, and when you have 16 people on each team it's really hard to communicate simple things like enemy position. That's why those red triangles and the mini-map are so important. Getting spotted is a huge thing. There are things you can do in Hardcore mode and get away with just because you won't get spotted. You can snipe people all day from the same spot with no kill cams in Hardcore mode because nobody knows where you shot them from, but in normal kill cams mean you have to move and you can't just abuse one spot all day.
Don't be fooled by the skull, you can put a skull sticker on a girl scout uniform, but it won't make you a bad ass for wearing it.
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If you don't do headshots in HC and you still manage to kill alot chances are you are not playing vs good players. Headshots are highly important in allmost every situation, except for really close combat with powerful weapons (exactly like in SC mode).
Also, if you can't spot a sniper in HC mode, chances are you kinda belong in SC mode. It is not that hard, really. You should give HC a try, you don't seem to understand it at all. It might be frustrating at first when you approach the mode like you approached SC, running without cover, don't listening, just watching for red triangles etc. but onces you get the hang of it you notice that HC is way more rewarding as it takes way more skill.
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On February 13 2011 21:43 Rflcrx wrote:
If you don't do headshots in HC and you still manage to kill alot chances are you are not playing vs good players. Headshots are highly important in allmost every situation, except for really close combat with powerful weapons (exactly like in SC mode).
Also, if you can't spot a sniper in HC mode, chances are you kinda belong in SC mode. It is not that hard, really. You should give HC a try, you don't seem to understand it at all. It might be frustrating at first when you approach the mode like you approached SC, running without cover, don't listening, just watching for red triangles etc. but onces you get the hang of it you notice that HC is way more rewarding as it takes way more skill.
lol...i think Fraidnots post was pretty much about that it isn't that much a matter of skill. what you play
is more a matter what you like better and what you're more comfortable with...both, hc and sc have their advantages and disadvantages...
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That maybe his impression but really, sc does not have any advantages
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Generally, I would argue that SC > HC in terms of skill, but that's because they take different skillsets. If the BC2 engine was optimized like the source engine, then it would reward fast reaction and flick shots, but it isn't. In HC any noob can get the first shot on you and win by default, whereas in SC you can always run to cover, abuse regen, get the advantage by having better recoil-control, etc.
That's just how I see it- to me, hardcore is just the mode you play on until you get Magnum Ammo. I get much better results in SC.
Before you flame me, I don't think that because you play hardcore that it reflects negatively on your personality and that we should have a blood feud.
As for the game itself, let's add eachother and play! My id is Twistacles. I don't play very much lately, since my motherboard died, but once I get it back... :D
http://bfbcs.com/stats_pc/twistacles
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On February 13 2011 21:43 Rflcrx wrote:
If you don't do headshots in HC and you still manage to kill alot chances are you are not playing vs good players. Headshots are highly important in allmost every situation, except for really close combat with powerful weapons (exactly like in SC mode).
Also, if you can't spot a sniper in HC mode, chances are you kinda belong in SC mode. It is not that hard, really. You should give HC a try, you don't seem to understand it at all. It might be frustrating at first when you approach the mode like you approached SC, running without cover, don't listening, just watching for red triangles etc. but onces you get the hang of it you notice that HC is way more rewarding as it takes way more skill.
I didn't say that you don't need to get headshots, only that the importance of headshots is dramatically reduced. There are plenty of situations where you have to get a headshot in normal if you want to kill someone, like sniping with a bolt action. That's just not the case in HC where it's better to aim for center of mass since it increases your likelihood of hitting. You can aim for the knee caps and let recoil do all the work. That just doesn't produce the same results as in SC.
I belong in SC mode and so do you, because it's a better game. Yes it's not that difficult to follow a sniper's bullet contours back to where they shot it from if you're alive. When you're dead because they shot you once with the VSS, it's a bit harder to do that.
I know HC really isn't that hard that's what I've been trying to point out, it's easier to kill someone, conversely that makes it harder to stay alive. All those elements of listening and running with cover are still in Normal. If you run out in the open in normal you get spotted and suddenly sixteen guys shoot at you and you get killed.
You talk about HC taking more skill but I don't see it. Camping doesn't take skill. It doesn't. Any scrub can go to a corner squat down and point his gun at the door. HC favors camping, you move up to a position point your gun, wait for some one to round the corner, you shoot them before they see you and move up to the next camping spot, that's how you play HC, that doesn't take considerable skill. I don't know why anyone would consider a game play mode that favors camping to be one that requires more skill.
My Id: Fraidnot
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On February 02 2011 23:14 Shockk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 00:00 Hawk wrote:On January 15 2011 01:42 Fraidnot wrote:
Blitzkrieger, don't play on hardcore. I know it says "HARDCORE" but I could put that label on a Martha Stewart DVD and it wouldn't make it any better. Hardcore is less balanced and it rewards to many stupid things like those snipers you complain about. Kill cams and minimaps keep players honest and makes for a better game(note the fact that I use the word game and not COMBAT SIMULATOR!!!). In my humble opinion, hardcore is for people who like Call of Duty, abusers, and xbox gamers. yeah no HC is where the best people play. you get punished for running out into open spaces, shitty players cant just get killed to spot a sniper's location, team damage is on so you can't just spam rockets or grenades on rush attack if someone is trying to plant, etc etc. this is like arguing that fastest map ever takes more skill than blizz maps in starcraft. just... no. i mean the biggest tipoff that you dont know what youre talking about is that you compared it COD of all things... BF is similar to that game only in that both use guns. it's totally different gameplay. I've played a bit of HC every now and then and my main concern with it is that it totally kills what the makes the game fun for me, i.e. the fast-paced combat.
I've played a bit of Normal every now and then, and my main concern with it is that it totally kills what makes the game fun for me (killing people) and that is stopped by it taking 18 body shots to kill somebody with an Assault RIfle at 30 feet.
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That argument for me doesn't make any sense.
Sure, it takes more shots than in HC if you assume a generalized damage of 16,7 per bullet which with magnum ammo is the basically the standard.
But really, if you're so good with constantly headshotting, it really only takes 5 shots to kill someone, which with most weapons makes you good for a good 3 kills for each magazine if you're not caught blindsided or anything like that.
The only time I get annoyed with the amount of bullets it takes to kill, is when I suffer from lag. If my target is rubberbanding forth and back while I'm trying to shoot him then the sheer amount of bullets it takes to kill will sometimes mean I won't get it. But then again, you can hardly blame that on the game mode.
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On February 14 2011 06:44 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 23:14 Shockk wrote:On February 02 2011 00:00 Hawk wrote:On January 15 2011 01:42 Fraidnot wrote:
Blitzkrieger, don't play on hardcore. I know it says "HARDCORE" but I could put that label on a Martha Stewart DVD and it wouldn't make it any better. Hardcore is less balanced and it rewards to many stupid things like those snipers you complain about. Kill cams and minimaps keep players honest and makes for a better game(note the fact that I use the word game and not COMBAT SIMULATOR!!!). In my humble opinion, hardcore is for people who like Call of Duty, abusers, and xbox gamers. yeah no HC is where the best people play. you get punished for running out into open spaces, shitty players cant just get killed to spot a sniper's location, team damage is on so you can't just spam rockets or grenades on rush attack if someone is trying to plant, etc etc. this is like arguing that fastest map ever takes more skill than blizz maps in starcraft. just... no. i mean the biggest tipoff that you dont know what youre talking about is that you compared it COD of all things... BF is similar to that game only in that both use guns. it's totally different gameplay. I've played a bit of HC every now and then and my main concern with it is that it totally kills what the makes the game fun for me, i.e. the fast-paced combat. I've played a bit of Normal every now and then, and my main concern with it is that it totally kills what makes the game fun for me (killing people) and that is stopped by it taking 18 body shots to kill somebody with an Assault RIfle at 30 feet.
I think you have other worries than the pros and cons of Normal/HC if it takes you 18 (body) shots to kill someone 10 m away.
I realize it was an exaggeration, but you couldn't have picked a worse one.
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On February 14 2011 06:29 Fraidnot wrote:
You talk about HC taking more skill but I don't see it. Camping doesn't take skill. It doesn't. Any scrub can go to a corner squat down and point his gun at the door. HC favors camping, you move up to a position point your gun, wait for some one to round the corner, you shoot them before they see you and move up to the next camping spot, that's how you play HC, that doesn't take considerable skill.
Simply said: No.
This is not how you play HC. You _cannot_ win with camping, neither as attacker, nor as defender. You have to be way more careful than SC as bullets can actually kill you, not just poke at you, but if you simply "camp" you will not win. You have to take keypoints and hold them. Constantly changing cover while covering your sector (this means: not camping but pointing your gun into the enemy directions). If you stay/camp too long the enemy can advance too far too quickly. HC is all about position and skill, you simply can't run around into 15 enemies. At the same time you cannot hide. If you camp you might get a positiv k/d, but you won't win the match.
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i wish people still played this on PS3, i get nothing but empty lobbies TT
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On February 14 2011 09:22 Rflcrx wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2011 06:29 Fraidnot wrote:
You talk about HC taking more skill but I don't see it. Camping doesn't take skill. It doesn't. Any scrub can go to a corner squat down and point his gun at the door. HC favors camping, you move up to a position point your gun, wait for some one to round the corner, you shoot them before they see you and move up to the next camping spot, that's how you play HC, that doesn't take considerable skill. Simply said: No. This is not how you play HC. You _cannot_ win with camping, neither as attacker, nor as defender. You have to be way more careful than SC as bullets can actually kill you, not just poke at you, but if you simply "camp" you will not win. You have to take keypoints and hold them. Constantly changing cover while covering your sector (this means: not camping but pointing your gun into the enemy directions). If you stay/camp too long the enemy can advance too far too quickly. HC is all about position and skill, you simply can't run around into 15 enemies. At the same time you cannot hide. If you camp you might get a positiv k/d, but you won't win the match.
Camping is not a bad strategy as much as I hate to admit it. (More so for defenders in rush maps, but still very viable in conquest) If you can use the map to gain tactical advantage and manage to not overstay your welcome you're always going to have position against players coming against you. Obviously your entire team can't do it, it's map dependent and I was over exaggerating the extent to which it is used while down playing the skill in picking camping locations. Still camping is hard to combat when a capable player sets up shop and when a player does so on a keypoint it becomes very hard to take that location. You can't deny that HC favors camping.
You make sound as if in SC you can just run around into 15 enemies. That position and skill simply don't matter, but if they don't matter what matters then? Luck? Do you think you win in SC because you have slow reaction times and you walk around in the open? When you go into a 1on 1 situation ,the longer fights favor the more skilled player, because you'll have more opportunities to use your superior skills to gain advantage.
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I've played my fair share of hardcore in this game and I will not lie, it is a fucking joke.
The players that play that shit all day sit around and don't move, and wait for people to walk into their crosshairs. All it takes is for me to find a slightly different angle and cap them across the map with an M1911. The fact that I can 1hit anyone with just about any weapon in the game is hilarious because I can pull off some of the most gimmicky shit known to man and still get away with it. And when I can't, it becomes a sniper snore fest... scanning window to window, hill to hill to find a few black pixels that i don't recognize and then clicking on when my goliath to see what happens. If that's your cup of tea, then have fun with it
While I understand the community has a demand for a hardcore mode, BC2 is designed to be played in softcore. The weapons, maps and the game's features itself are all balanced and designed accordingly.
And besides... realistic games suck! ;D
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Hardcore is sort of entertaining for a while but it has zero depth compared to the actual game.
1. It removes the differences between most weapons (clip size/damage don't matter when its a OHK)
2. It removes the class abilities (resupply and healing don't matter when its a OHK, recon spotting is removed)
If you're complaining about it taking 30 bullets to kill someone then you are doing it drastically wrong, weapons are still very effective, they just actually have differences....you are going to be at a disadvantage engaging with an SMG at 650m, and sniping actually takes some skill hitting multiple shots on a moving target and getting headshots.
Hardcore is still fun sometimes but it gets old really fast due to it basically just removing game elements.
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EPT
