EPTTL Chess Match - Page 30
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Arbiter[frolix]
United Kingdom2674 Posts
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Athos
United States2484 Posts
I'm kinda stuck between RC2 and RD8 but I guess they both accomplish the same thing of putting his Rook on F2. Rook C2 is a bit more direct, so it's probably the better move, but we can play either one, even one after the other. RD8 | ||
l10f
United States3241 Posts
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Pellucidity
Netherlands377 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + This leaves white with a couple of options, all of them involving the defense of the knight on d2 and/or losing a piece. Either Rf-d1 or Rf2. I haven't had the chance to do any deep calculations, but despite the common principal of keeping rooks on the same ranks I think Rf2 might be better. We will follow up with Rd8, winning a piece. | ||
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unknown.sam
Philippines2701 Posts
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lightman
United States731 Posts
why Rd8 instead of Rc2. + Show Spoiler + basically, if black wants to end this fast. it's Rd8. If we want to exchange pieces and meet a pawngame w 1 piece long (maybe 20-25 move) endgamme,,,, then Rc2 playing Rd8 would finish this in 15-20 moves at most 21... Rc2 definetly a good move, though correct move to play is ....Rd8 to active our remaing rook and keep pressure for 22 Rf2 Rc2 23 Bxd6 Rdxd2 24 Bd4 Nc6 black having both rooks active and pressuring the king. at this point white may blunder again to give us an even shorter finish the other line would be 22 Rf2 Fd3 23 Ra1 Nd7 24 f4 Nc4 25 Nxc4 Rxc4 a slower line, with white playing perfect here, basically resisting the emminent outcome if we play ....Rc2 instead, then the endgame may be a bit boring: 21 Rf2 Rac8 22 Nf1 Rxf2+ 23 Kxf2 Nd7 24 Bb4 Rc2+ 25 Kg1 Nc4 26 Rd1 Kf8..... still black wins but it's gonna take a while I'm ok with both moves, .......Rc2 .....Rd8, but me me I would play and vote for .......Rd8 ------------------------------ ------------------------------ jfrazz here's my analysis on your game 1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 The Queen's Gambit declined, Slav Variation. 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Bg5 e6 5. Nc3 h6 6. Bh4 dxc4 7. e4 g5 8. Bg3 b5 The Moscow Variation of the Slav, 9. Be2 Bb7 10. h4 g4 end of early game, nice impecabble playing from both. you guys definetly have sharp home prep [spoiler] 11. Ne5 h5 12. f3 Nbd7 13. fxg4 hxg4 14. O-O Nxe5 (this is the right move) I wouldn't "?" it deep opening preparation from both. well played. 15. Bxe5 Nd7!! (worth the "!!") 16. Bxh8 Qxh4 17. Bxg4 Qxh8 18. e5 O-O-O 19. Rxf7 ?? A big blunder from white, instead of playing the more secure Qe2 to get rid of the pin as in 19 Qe2 Nxe5 20 dxe5 21 Rf2 Bxf2+ 22 Kxf2 Qh4+ 23 Kg1 Rh8 24 Bh5 and white has a solid position. Black is ok but not too much to brag about game resumes with 20. Bxe6+ Kb8 21. Rf5 ?? Another blunder from white. still not resolving the pin. 21.....Nd3. I think the correct move was 21...Bc5 22. Qg4 Bg7 and black has lost the initiative. White may look about to lose a pawn but has interesting development 23. Ne2 Rf7 ?? Why not Rb1 instead.?? 24. Rf7 Bxd4+ 25. Nxd4 Qxd4+ 26. Qxd4 Rxd4 and all of a sudden it looks like white has equalized. 27. Re1 Nd3 28. Re3 a6 29. Bf5 Rd8 30. g4 Bc8 31. Rfe7 ?? Huge fatal Blunder from white. Why block his own rooks ?? The position was pretty equal and right move was Ree7 instead bringing both rooks to pressure the King and at least force, I mean if any winning chances for white there were, they're all gone now 31.. Bxf5 32. gxf5 c3 33. Re8 Rxe8 ??? 33..... c2 was the correct move. Although white has somewhat of pressure, black has nothing much to worry about 34. Rxe8+ Kc7 35. Re2 Nf4 36. Re1 Nd5 again white somewhat equalized. perfect play from white here would earn a draw. 37. Kf2 Kd6 38. Kf3 Kc5 39. Ke4 ?? final fatal Blunder from white or maybe the blunder was Kf3 (not sure), in pawn game endings it's vital to never lose a tempo. having this happend it's gg for white as black clearly wins. perhaps 39 Ke2 would have saved the draw by 39 ke2 a5 40 a4 kd3 31 Kd6 Re6+ so the rest is automatic 39.....Kc4 40. Rf1 c2 41. f6 Nxf6+ 42. Rxf6 c5 43. Rf1 Kc3 44. Kd5 c4 45. Rg1 Kb2 46. a4 c1=Q 47. Rxc1 Kxc1 48. axb5 axb5 49. Kc5 c3 50. Kxb5 c2 51. Resigns 0-1 nice elegant finish overall very well played, and good tense game your home preparation definetly surpasses mine, your mid game has noticable flaws though. I would say the only clear error you made was 33....Rxe8 instead of 33.....c2 to finish it right there. as per white, he had his chances but made two bigg mistakes, the biggest blunder being Rfe7 where he lost all the position he had worked for. And of course the 19......Rxf7 instead of 19....Qe2. Looks like white got a bit greedy there Out of curiosity, what time controls were used for this game ?? | ||
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jfazz
Australia672 Posts
Im not a natural slav player, I am trying to add it to my repetoire for two tournaments in january - im a known nimzo/QID player, so I need to branch out! At the moment, I am still very unfamiliar from the blackside in those sort of positions, they aren't similar to what I am normally playing. just to add some analysis to the ...Rc2 lines how about + Show Spoiler + 21. Rf2 Nd7 22. Bd4 Rac8 23. Rd1 e5 24. Be3 Nc5 and I think that should be a pretty easy rook endgame? | ||
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Pellucidity
Netherlands377 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
hmm + Show Spoiler + Black needs to get f6 Knight into play, and Rc2 clears the c5 square for the knight through d7 | ||
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jfazz
Australia672 Posts
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On November 25 2009 11:10 jfazz wrote: What TanGeng said. A different idea = well not really, haha + Show Spoiler + Depending on the response knight to e5 is also available, but should the knight gets to c5, the a4 pawn is all but dead. It'll be two passed pawns up on the queen-side so we should just exchange the pieces and collect the win. | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
On November 25 2009 11:57 TanGeng wrote: A different idea = well not really, haha + Show Spoiler + Depending on the response knight to e5 is also available, but should the knight gets to c5, the a4 pawn is all but dead. It'll be two passed pawns up on the queen-side so we should just exchange the pieces and collect the win. + Show Spoiler + Agreed. I too prefer this line ...Rc2 Rf2 ...Nd7 Ba3 ...Ne5 and that is the best case scenario for white, a mess positionally wise. Someone needs to explain Lighhtman's analysis to me. | ||
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jfazz
Australia672 Posts
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lightman
United States731 Posts
btw, I'm ok with Rc2, it's just that me me me I would play Rd8 in this situation, the reason why I prefer (repeat prefer, not dislike Rc2) Rd8 is + Show Spoiler + black is still winning regardless of Rc2 or Rd8, but I think that Rc2 weakens the pressure at allows white a breathe in the midrun, especially by black not gaining control of d file as in: 22 Rf2 Rac8 (no point of playing Rd8 to attack a soon to be empty square per Nf1) 23 Nf1 Nd7 (looking for to c5 / e5) 24 Bd4 R2c4 (def the best plays) 25 Rd1 Nc5 26 BxN bxc5 27 Rd7 (and white has a bit of air, black still has advantage but it's not as big as before) in essence Rc2 is not really scissoring or pinning anythinig to make white lose it, whereas Rd8 activates black's other rook to prepare an assualt towards the f2 square via rook trading. my point is Rd8 prevents white from gasping any pieces into d, bishop or knight if you guys think I'm missing something or I'm wrong, please let me know again, I'm ok with Rc2 as black is still winning anyway, since Rc2 is winning the poll and vetkzel hasn't updated, how about we start talking about the continuation lines and moves following 21......Rc2 ??? mine already appointed above how about yours ?? | ||
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Malinor
Germany4716 Posts
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jfazz
Australia672 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + a) 21. Rf2 Nd7 This move order is the most accurate, as it prevents any immediate exchange via Bxf6. The knight intends the c5 square, so that the a5 knight may return to c6 safely, activating massive pressure on the queenside. 22. Bd4 Nc6 I think this works well, but it is important to verify. White must stop the knight from coming to c5 (he has a techinically lost endgame if he cannot exchange it), so the bishop must occupy that diagonal. This move order lets us achive the first of our objectives in the position - knight to c6 - with tempo. 23. Be3 Ra2 24. Rc1 Nce5 Black now wins a second pawn by force, and I firmly believe this line will allow exchanges while still perhaps giving us a knight on c5 (eventually) or at least clean exchanges that DO NOT include the ugly and unwanted ...bxc5 25. Nc4 Rxa4 26. Nxe5 Nxe5 27. Rfc2 f5 Now, even though white can penetrate a rook to the 8th, so long as Black has a the a-file rook, eventually those two passers will decide the game. In the meantime, it is simply a matter of getting the knight to a good square, most likely somewhere in the centre. So what about 22. Nf1 instead? 22...Rc4 going after the weak a-pawn looks promising, then perhaps: 23. Rd2 Nc5 24. Rbd1 Nc6 25. Ne3 Rxa4 26. Rd6 Ra2 27. R1d2 Nb3 and it looks over to me. b) 21. Rfd1?? Nc4 and resigns (22. Bxf6 gxf6 23. Rbc1 Rxd2+) | ||
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Zinbiel
Sweden878 Posts
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + 20... Rd8 21.Rf2 Nd7 22.Ba3 Rc6 23. Be7 Rdc8 20...Rc2 21. Rf2 Nd7 22. Nf1 Rxf2+ 23.Kxf2 and I think with the first line we end up with a better position. But this is just quickly before I leave so maybe I missed something better | ||
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