• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:56
CET 21:56
KST 05:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) RSL Offline FInals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
[ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion Which season is the best in ASL? Data analysis on 70 million replays BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread The Perfect Game
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Big Programming Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
Physical Exertion During Gam…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1262 users

Torchlight II - Page 34

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 32 33 34 35 36 95 Next
TeamLiquid Steam Group for Torchlight 2
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-21 02:45:39
September 21 2012 01:54 GMT
#661
On September 21 2012 10:42 TheYango wrote:
So I did some mathcrafting on Embermage DPS (Embermage is the easiest because their damage will be 100% elemental so you can accurately assess the value of Focus % elemental damage vs. Strength's % weapon damage, and you don't get fumbles/executes). Drew some interesting conclusions, but I would like someone to check my math as well.

The basic formula:
DPS = base damage * (1+0.005*str)*(1+0.005*focus)*(1+0.005*str*0.005*(T-str-focus))
where
T = total of str + focus + dex
constrained by: str > 0, focus > 0, T >= str + focus

Not having any more advanced mathematical software installed at the moment on this computer, I used Wolfram Alpha to generate plots of DPS in relation to str and focus, for varying values of T.

For T = 100 - We notice that the constraint T >= str + focus runs pretty much along one of the contour lines. This suggests that at low levels, your DPS will be roughly similar regardless of how you split your str/focus. That is, lower levels are inherently forgiving to mis-assigning points to the two DPS stats, because your DPS does not vary significantly so long as you are assigning points to either. As expected, Dex does not matter that much at low DPS values.

For T = 200 - Here we start to see some variation in DPS based on how you assigned strength in comparison to focus. The optimum is still on the constraint T >= str + focus (which you have to imagine because I didn't plot it), but the value is very close to an even split between str and focus, and the extremes are noticeably worse.

For T = 300 - Around 300 total stats, we start to see Dexterity become significant--the optimum is not on the edge of the constraint anymore. We can roughly approximate the point of optimum DPS to around ~75 Focus, 175 Strength, 50 Dex. We note that just as Dex is starting to become important, the usefulness of Strength is starting to outpace Focus (because Strength gives Crit damage, while Execute chance is a useless stat for Embermages because their spells dont Execute).

For T = 400 - The usefulness of Focus starts to level out. Strength continues to be the most important stat, and Dex is picking up a bit. The split here seems to be about 75 Focus, 75 Dex, 250 Str.

At this point it starts to get a bit dodgy because I'm not sure how the stat caps work out (Dex obviously caps at 200, because that gives you 100% crit and 100% dodge). If we assume stats cap at 200, then the above graph should look closer to a split of 100 Dex, 100 Focus, 200 Strength.

This would suggest the following leveling strategy for Embermage offensive stats (note that you probably have to take some appropriate amount of Vitality as well, but I haven't factored that in):
- Level Strength and Focus evenly until they are both at 100 (this means your first few level ups will probably be used to boost Strength to the same level as your Focus)
- At ~100 Focus, stop leveling Focus. Prioritize Strength while pumping a little bit of Dex so that you hit 150 Str/50 Dex
- Level Strength and Dex evenly at this point, so that you hit 100 Dex and 200 Strength at this point. If Strength caps at 200, boost up your Focus and Dex toward the cap of 200. If there is no cap, then focus further on Strength, and pull up your Dex and Focus as you can.

I've done similar calculations for effective HP on the engineer.

You can reduce this to a 1D optimization problem. You can only put a max of 500 skill points into a stat and that requires level 93 (according to Torchlight Armory). Hence you can set str = x, and focus = 500 - x, sub this into your DPS formula and then vary x between 0 and 500 to see what maximizes DPS.

Also things like crit, dodge etc do not increase linearly, but you can fit a perfect quadratic curve to it: http://torchlight2armory.com/skill-calc?i=2
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-21 01:56:25
September 21 2012 01:55 GMT
#662
Caphe
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Vietnam10817 Posts
September 21 2012 02:07 GMT
#663
Yango, you are awesome with this kind of stuff, I'd love to verify your math but I want to progress in the game :D. I rolled an Embermage myself. I was putting points in Focus and Vit only(4 focs + 1Vit), will try your stuff out and report back!
Terran
EchelonTee
Profile Joined February 2011
United States5253 Posts
September 21 2012 02:21 GMT
#664
On September 21 2012 10:42 TheYango wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
So I did some mathcrafting on Embermage DPS (Embermage is the easiest because their damage will be 100% elemental so you can accurately assess the value of Focus % elemental damage vs. Strength's % weapon damage, and you don't get fumbles/executes). Drew some interesting conclusions, but I would like someone to check my math as well.

The basic formula:
DPS = base damage * (1+0.005*str)*(1+0.005*focus)*(1+0.005*str*0.005*(T-str-focus))
where
T = total of str + focus + dex
constrained by: str > 0, focus > 0, T >= str + focus

Not having any more advanced mathematical software installed at the moment on this computer, I used Wolfram Alpha to generate plots of DPS in relation to str and focus, for varying values of T.

For T = 100 - We notice that the constraint T >= str + focus runs pretty much along one of the contour lines. This suggests that at low levels, your DPS will be roughly similar regardless of how you split your str/focus. That is, lower levels are inherently forgiving to mis-assigning points to the two DPS stats, because your DPS does not vary significantly so long as you are assigning points to either. As expected, Dex does not matter that much at low DPS values.

For T = 200 - Here we start to see some variation in DPS based on how you assigned strength in comparison to focus. The optimum is still on the constraint T >= str + focus (which you have to imagine because I didn't plot it), but the value is very close to an even split between str and focus, and the extremes are noticeably worse.

For T = 300 - Around 300 total stats, we start to see Dexterity become significant--the optimum is not on the edge of the constraint anymore. We can roughly approximate the point of optimum DPS to around ~75 Focus, 175 Strength, 50 Dex. We note that just as Dex is starting to become important, the usefulness of Strength is starting to outpace Focus (because Strength gives Crit damage, while Execute chance is a useless stat for Embermages because their spells dont Execute).

For T = 400 - The usefulness of Focus starts to level out. Strength continues to be the most important stat, and Dex is picking up a bit. The split here seems to be about 75 Focus, 75 Dex, 250 Str.

At this point it starts to get a bit dodgy because I'm not sure how the stat caps work out (Dex obviously caps at 200, because that gives you 100% crit and 100% dodge). If we assume stats cap at 200, then the above graph should look closer to a split of 100 Dex, 100 Focus, 200 Strength.

This would suggest the following leveling strategy for Embermage offensive stats (note that you probably have to take some appropriate amount of Vitality as well, but I haven't factored that in):
- Level Strength and Focus evenly until they are both at 100 (this means your first few level ups will probably be used to boost Strength to the same level as your Focus)
- At ~100 Focus, stop leveling Focus. Prioritize Strength while pumping a little bit of Dex so that you hit 150 Str/50 Dex
- Level Strength and Dex evenly at this point, so that you hit 100 Dex and 200 Strength at this point. If Strength caps at 200, boost up your Focus and Dex toward the cap of 200. If there is no cap, then focus further on Strength, and pull up your Dex and Focus as you can.

That's very very intriguing... completely throws out what I was thinking about how stats worked, based off of my limited TL1 experience. I wonder if this extends to other classes similarly; if utilizing spell damage, is some even leveling of dex/str/focus needed? I interpreted the spell descriptions for classes like Zerker and Engineer as meaning that you could copmletely forgo Focus, but now I'm not sure.
aka "neophyte". learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9]
Pufftrees
Profile Joined March 2009
2449 Posts
September 21 2012 02:22 GMT
#665
Just starting, gunslinging/magic wielding Outlander is the class I chose.

All I can say is good music so far! Come check it out if you like.

http://www.twitch.tv/pufftrees
Chance favors the prepared mind.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
September 21 2012 02:36 GMT
#666
Totally can't log in right now, but holy shit is the log-in music straight from Diablo 2? I'm not complaining or anything, I fucking love it.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-21 02:44:51
September 21 2012 02:39 GMT
#667
edit: nm
Moderator
DaCruise
Profile Joined July 2010
Denmark2457 Posts
September 21 2012 02:43 GMT
#668
Love it so far. Just reached act 2 and its bed time for me now. My only real complaint so far are the cheap cinematics that an amateur with a few days off could easily triumf.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 21 2012 02:44 GMT
#669
On September 21 2012 10:54 paralleluniverse wrote:
x
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 10:42 TheYango wrote:
So I did some mathcrafting on Embermage DPS (Embermage is the easiest because their damage will be 100% elemental so you can accurately assess the value of Focus % elemental damage vs. Strength's % weapon damage, and you don't get fumbles/executes). Drew some interesting conclusions, but I would like someone to check my math as well.

The basic formula:
DPS = base damage * (1+0.005*str)*(1+0.005*focus)*(1+0.005*str*0.005*(T-str-focus))
where
T = total of str + focus + dex
constrained by: str > 0, focus > 0, T >= str + focus

Not having any more advanced mathematical software installed at the moment on this computer, I used Wolfram Alpha to generate plots of DPS in relation to str and focus, for varying values of T.

For T = 100 - We notice that the constraint T >= str + focus runs pretty much along one of the contour lines. This suggests that at low levels, your DPS will be roughly similar regardless of how you split your str/focus. That is, lower levels are inherently forgiving to mis-assigning points to the two DPS stats, because your DPS does not vary significantly so long as you are assigning points to either. As expected, Dex does not matter that much at low DPS values.

For T = 200 - Here we start to see some variation in DPS based on how you assigned strength in comparison to focus. The optimum is still on the constraint T >= str + focus (which you have to imagine because I didn't plot it), but the value is very close to an even split between str and focus, and the extremes are noticeably worse.

For T = 300 - Around 300 total stats, we start to see Dexterity become significant--the optimum is not on the edge of the constraint anymore. We can roughly approximate the point of optimum DPS to around ~75 Focus, 175 Strength, 50 Dex. We note that just as Dex is starting to become important, the usefulness of Strength is starting to outpace Focus (because Strength gives Crit damage, while Execute chance is a useless stat for Embermages because their spells dont Execute).

For T = 400 - The usefulness of Focus starts to level out. Strength continues to be the most important stat, and Dex is picking up a bit. The split here seems to be about 75 Focus, 75 Dex, 250 Str.

At this point it starts to get a bit dodgy because I'm not sure how the stat caps work out (Dex obviously caps at 200, because that gives you 100% crit and 100% dodge). If we assume stats cap at 200, then the above graph should look closer to a split of 100 Dex, 100 Focus, 200 Strength.

This would suggest the following leveling strategy for Embermage offensive stats (note that you probably have to take some appropriate amount of Vitality as well, but I haven't factored that in):
- Level Strength and Focus evenly until they are both at 100 (this means your first few level ups will probably be used to boost Strength to the same level as your Focus)
- At ~100 Focus, stop leveling Focus. Prioritize Strength while pumping a little bit of Dex so that you hit 150 Str/50 Dex
- Level Strength and Dex evenly at this point, so that you hit 100 Dex and 200 Strength at this point. If Strength caps at 200, boost up your Focus and Dex toward the cap of 200. If there is no cap, then focus further on Strength, and pull up your Dex and Focus as you can.

I've done similar calculations for effective HP on the engineer.

You can reduce this to a 1D optimization problem. You can only put a max of 500 skill points into a stat and that requires level 93 (according to Torchlight Armory). Hence you can set str = x, and focus = 500 - x, sub this into your DPS formula and then vary x between 0 and 500 to see what maximizes DPS.

Also things like crit, dodge etc do not increase linearly, but you can fit a perfect quadratic curve to it: http://torchlight2armory.com/skill-calc?i=2

Ok, so basically Dex is way worse than I thought it was.

I think I'm just going to split Str/Focus evenly, favoring Strength once I start finding % crit items. Dex doesn't feel worth it as a DPS stat.
Moderator
Silidons
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2813 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-21 02:50:04
September 21 2012 02:45 GMT
#670
this game....is downright awesome. this is worth $60 imo

i'm a zerker, lv 14 right now playing elite mode. just killed general grell or whatever, but i love the skills.

i'm doing a 3str/2vit per lvl, and i'm using stormclaw with autoattacks as my main DPS, and it annihilates. using wolfshade as well for the healing. it's very fun.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon Bonaparte
RuskiPanda
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2906 Posts
September 21 2012 02:45 GMT
#671
Engineer with Blast Cannon+ Fire and Spark passive maxing Strength makes elite mode seem like a joke tbh. As long as your cannon weapon remains relatively up to your current level I've had no trouble with any boss/area so far. Maxing heal bot for utility means at worst you just have to pot spam in sticky situations but at level 22 I've only wiped 5 times (and all to being lazy about using a potion xD). Maybe it will change in higher levels when my neglect of Vitality will catch up with me but it seems doubtful so far.
eluv
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1251 Posts
September 21 2012 02:57 GMT
#672
On September 21 2012 11:36 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Totally can't log in right now, but holy shit is the log-in music straight from Diablo 2? I'm not complaining or anything, I fucking love it.


Matt Uelman, D2 Composer, also did the TL 2 score - and what I learned is that he can write about 5 very, very good songs, but that's about it. Not complaining, those songs are awesome, but if you compare the soundtracks, they might as well have just used the same score.
"Yes I fucked my way to the GSL partnership" - Sundance
Infernal_dream
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2359 Posts
September 21 2012 03:01 GMT
#673
On September 21 2012 11:57 eluv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 11:36 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Totally can't log in right now, but holy shit is the log-in music straight from Diablo 2? I'm not complaining or anything, I fucking love it.


Matt Uelman, D2 Composer, also did the TL 2 score - and what I learned is that he can write about 5 very, very good songs, but that's about it. Not complaining, those songs are awesome, but if you compare the soundtracks, they might as well have just used the same score.


I noticed the same thing. Sounded almost exactly alike with a few notes here and there changed.
epik640x
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1134 Posts
September 21 2012 03:14 GMT
#674
On September 21 2012 12:01 Infernal_dream wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 11:57 eluv wrote:
On September 21 2012 11:36 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Totally can't log in right now, but holy shit is the log-in music straight from Diablo 2? I'm not complaining or anything, I fucking love it.


Matt Uelman, D2 Composer, also did the TL 2 score - and what I learned is that he can write about 5 very, very good songs, but that's about it. Not complaining, those songs are awesome, but if you compare the soundtracks, they might as well have just used the same score.


I noticed the same thing. Sounded almost exactly alike with a few notes here and there changed.


An evolution rather than a revolution. I'll allow it.

Hey, anyone got an effective stat writeup for the outlander?
Rotodyne
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United States2263 Posts
September 21 2012 03:20 GMT
#675
Played for five hours today, very fun. Using Berserker in veteran and trying to use a lot of skills and items that get me life steal and regen. Like everyone else said, way better than that other game that we don't talk about anymore
I can only play starcraft when I am shit canned. IPXZERG is a god.
GreyMasta
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada197 Posts
September 21 2012 03:40 GMT
#676
Playing Elite as a Berserker.

To survive through the 2nd floor of the 1st dungeon I already had to resort to some nasty Hit and Run tactics in order to fill the Charge gauge and go berserk to lifesteal/ kill them like crazy during those precious 5-6 seconds of Critical hits fest. That was intense. :D

I recommend playing it at above than normal difficulties, definitely more fun and tactical.
Caphe
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Vietnam10817 Posts
September 21 2012 03:46 GMT
#677
Are you able to trade items once you are playing on Internet?
Terran
Silidons
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2813 Posts
September 21 2012 03:47 GMT
#678
jesus the archers in emberscratch mines rape face - melee classes beware on elite
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon Bonaparte
village_idiot
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
2436 Posts
September 21 2012 03:50 GMT
#679
Seems like you can't play as a summoner in this game. Too bad.
Silidons
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2813 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-21 04:12:49
September 21 2012 04:05 GMT
#680
jesus christ i think i'm underleveled lol - i'm getting item drops from this place that are lv 23 and i'm 16 >.>

king pogg dead lol...strategy = run in, eviscerate, run the fuck away. rinse repeat.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon Bonaparte
Prev 1 32 33 34 35 36 95 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 4m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 194
Railgan 84
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 14457
Calm 2616
Shuttle 560
Larva 223
firebathero 120
Dota 2
capcasts84
Counter-Strike
fl0m5192
kRYSTAL_35
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu413
Khaldor144
Other Games
Grubby3954
RotterdaM181
C9.Mang0144
Sick122
ArmadaUGS104
Trikslyr77
QueenE52
XaKoH 44
Mew2King38
ViBE20
Organizations
Other Games
Algost 10
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 12
• Dystopia_ 1
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix17
• 80smullet 16
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV700
• lizZardDota272
League of Legends
• TFBlade1026
Other Games
• imaqtpie1499
• Shiphtur246
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 4m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 6h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 13h
WardiTV 2025
1d 15h
SC Evo League
1d 15h
BSL 21
1d 23h
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
OSC
2 days
Solar vs Creator
ByuN vs Gerald
Percival vs Babymarine
Moja vs Krystianer
EnDerr vs ForJumy
sebesdes vs Nicoract
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV 2025
2 days
OSC
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
2 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
StarCraft2.fi
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV 2025
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
PiGosaur Monday
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
5 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV 2025
6 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-30
RSL Revival: Season 3
Light HT

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.