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On September 21 2012 10:42 TheYango wrote:So I did some mathcrafting on Embermage DPS (Embermage is the easiest because their damage will be 100% elemental so you can accurately assess the value of Focus % elemental damage vs. Strength's % weapon damage, and you don't get fumbles/executes). Drew some interesting conclusions, but I would like someone to check my math as well. The basic formula: DPS = base damage * (1+0.005*str)*(1+0.005*focus)*(1+0.005*str*0.005*(T-str-focus)) where T = total of str + focus + dex constrained by: str > 0, focus > 0, T >= str + focus Not having any more advanced mathematical software installed at the moment on this computer, I used Wolfram Alpha to generate plots of DPS in relation to str and focus, for varying values of T. For T = 100 - We notice that the constraint T >= str + focus runs pretty much along one of the contour lines. This suggests that at low levels, your DPS will be roughly similar regardless of how you split your str/focus. That is, lower levels are inherently forgiving to mis-assigning points to the two DPS stats, because your DPS does not vary significantly so long as you are assigning points to either. As expected, Dex does not matter that much at low DPS values. For T = 200 - Here we start to see some variation in DPS based on how you assigned strength in comparison to focus. The optimum is still on the constraint T >= str + focus (which you have to imagine because I didn't plot it), but the value is very close to an even split between str and focus, and the extremes are noticeably worse. For T = 300 - Around 300 total stats, we start to see Dexterity become significant--the optimum is not on the edge of the constraint anymore. We can roughly approximate the point of optimum DPS to around ~75 Focus, 175 Strength, 50 Dex. We note that just as Dex is starting to become important, the usefulness of Strength is starting to outpace Focus (because Strength gives Crit damage, while Execute chance is a useless stat for Embermages because their spells dont Execute). For T = 400 - The usefulness of Focus starts to level out. Strength continues to be the most important stat, and Dex is picking up a bit. The split here seems to be about 75 Focus, 75 Dex, 250 Str. At this point it starts to get a bit dodgy because I'm not sure how the stat caps work out (Dex obviously caps at 200, because that gives you 100% crit and 100% dodge). If we assume stats cap at 200, then the above graph should look closer to a split of 100 Dex, 100 Focus, 200 Strength. This would suggest the following leveling strategy for Embermage offensive stats (note that you probably have to take some appropriate amount of Vitality as well, but I haven't factored that in): - Level Strength and Focus evenly until they are both at 100 (this means your first few level ups will probably be used to boost Strength to the same level as your Focus) - At ~100 Focus, stop leveling Focus. Prioritize Strength while pumping a little bit of Dex so that you hit 150 Str/50 Dex - Level Strength and Dex evenly at this point, so that you hit 100 Dex and 200 Strength at this point. If Strength caps at 200, boost up your Focus and Dex toward the cap of 200. If there is no cap, then focus further on Strength, and pull up your Dex and Focus as you can.
I've done similar calculations for effective HP on the engineer.
You can reduce this to a 1D optimization problem. You can only put a max of 500 skill points into a stat and that requires level 93 (according to Torchlight Armory). Hence you can set str = x, and focus = 500 - x, sub this into your DPS formula and then vary x between 0 and 500 to see what maximizes DPS.
Also things like crit, dodge etc do not increase linearly, but you can fit a perfect quadratic curve to it: http://torchlight2armory.com/skill-calc?i=2
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Yango, you are awesome with this kind of stuff, I'd love to verify your math but I want to progress in the game :D. I rolled an Embermage myself. I was putting points in Focus and Vit only(4 focs + 1Vit), will try your stuff out and report back!
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On September 21 2012 10:42 TheYango wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So I did some mathcrafting on Embermage DPS (Embermage is the easiest because their damage will be 100% elemental so you can accurately assess the value of Focus % elemental damage vs. Strength's % weapon damage, and you don't get fumbles/executes). Drew some interesting conclusions, but I would like someone to check my math as well. The basic formula: DPS = base damage * (1+0.005*str)*(1+0.005*focus)*(1+0.005*str*0.005*(T-str-focus)) where T = total of str + focus + dex constrained by: str > 0, focus > 0, T >= str + focus Not having any more advanced mathematical software installed at the moment on this computer, I used Wolfram Alpha to generate plots of DPS in relation to str and focus, for varying values of T. For T = 100 - We notice that the constraint T >= str + focus runs pretty much along one of the contour lines. This suggests that at low levels, your DPS will be roughly similar regardless of how you split your str/focus. That is, lower levels are inherently forgiving to mis-assigning points to the two DPS stats, because your DPS does not vary significantly so long as you are assigning points to either. As expected, Dex does not matter that much at low DPS values. For T = 200 - Here we start to see some variation in DPS based on how you assigned strength in comparison to focus. The optimum is still on the constraint T >= str + focus (which you have to imagine because I didn't plot it), but the value is very close to an even split between str and focus, and the extremes are noticeably worse. For T = 300 - Around 300 total stats, we start to see Dexterity become significant--the optimum is not on the edge of the constraint anymore. We can roughly approximate the point of optimum DPS to around ~75 Focus, 175 Strength, 50 Dex. We note that just as Dex is starting to become important, the usefulness of Strength is starting to outpace Focus (because Strength gives Crit damage, while Execute chance is a useless stat for Embermages because their spells dont Execute). For T = 400 - The usefulness of Focus starts to level out. Strength continues to be the most important stat, and Dex is picking up a bit. The split here seems to be about 75 Focus, 75 Dex, 250 Str. At this point it starts to get a bit dodgy because I'm not sure how the stat caps work out (Dex obviously caps at 200, because that gives you 100% crit and 100% dodge). If we assume stats cap at 200, then the above graph should look closer to a split of 100 Dex, 100 Focus, 200 Strength. This would suggest the following leveling strategy for Embermage offensive stats (note that you probably have to take some appropriate amount of Vitality as well, but I haven't factored that in): - Level Strength and Focus evenly until they are both at 100 (this means your first few level ups will probably be used to boost Strength to the same level as your Focus) - At ~100 Focus, stop leveling Focus. Prioritize Strength while pumping a little bit of Dex so that you hit 150 Str/50 Dex - Level Strength and Dex evenly at this point, so that you hit 100 Dex and 200 Strength at this point. If Strength caps at 200, boost up your Focus and Dex toward the cap of 200. If there is no cap, then focus further on Strength, and pull up your Dex and Focus as you can.
That's very very intriguing... completely throws out what I was thinking about how stats worked, based off of my limited TL1 experience. I wonder if this extends to other classes similarly; if utilizing spell damage, is some even leveling of dex/str/focus needed? I interpreted the spell descriptions for classes like Zerker and Engineer as meaning that you could copmletely forgo Focus, but now I'm not sure.
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Just starting, gunslinging/magic wielding Outlander is the class I chose.
All I can say is good music so far! Come check it out if you like.
http://www.twitch.tv/pufftrees
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Totally can't log in right now, but holy shit is the log-in music straight from Diablo 2? I'm not complaining or anything, I fucking love it.
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United States47024 Posts
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Love it so far. Just reached act 2 and its bed time for me now. My only real complaint so far are the cheap cinematics that an amateur with a few days off could easily triumf.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 21 2012 10:54 paralleluniverse wrote:x Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 10:42 TheYango wrote:So I did some mathcrafting on Embermage DPS (Embermage is the easiest because their damage will be 100% elemental so you can accurately assess the value of Focus % elemental damage vs. Strength's % weapon damage, and you don't get fumbles/executes). Drew some interesting conclusions, but I would like someone to check my math as well. The basic formula: DPS = base damage * (1+0.005*str)*(1+0.005*focus)*(1+0.005*str*0.005*(T-str-focus)) where T = total of str + focus + dex constrained by: str > 0, focus > 0, T >= str + focus Not having any more advanced mathematical software installed at the moment on this computer, I used Wolfram Alpha to generate plots of DPS in relation to str and focus, for varying values of T. For T = 100 - We notice that the constraint T >= str + focus runs pretty much along one of the contour lines. This suggests that at low levels, your DPS will be roughly similar regardless of how you split your str/focus. That is, lower levels are inherently forgiving to mis-assigning points to the two DPS stats, because your DPS does not vary significantly so long as you are assigning points to either. As expected, Dex does not matter that much at low DPS values. For T = 200 - Here we start to see some variation in DPS based on how you assigned strength in comparison to focus. The optimum is still on the constraint T >= str + focus (which you have to imagine because I didn't plot it), but the value is very close to an even split between str and focus, and the extremes are noticeably worse. For T = 300 - Around 300 total stats, we start to see Dexterity become significant--the optimum is not on the edge of the constraint anymore. We can roughly approximate the point of optimum DPS to around ~75 Focus, 175 Strength, 50 Dex. We note that just as Dex is starting to become important, the usefulness of Strength is starting to outpace Focus (because Strength gives Crit damage, while Execute chance is a useless stat for Embermages because their spells dont Execute). For T = 400 - The usefulness of Focus starts to level out. Strength continues to be the most important stat, and Dex is picking up a bit. The split here seems to be about 75 Focus, 75 Dex, 250 Str. At this point it starts to get a bit dodgy because I'm not sure how the stat caps work out (Dex obviously caps at 200, because that gives you 100% crit and 100% dodge). If we assume stats cap at 200, then the above graph should look closer to a split of 100 Dex, 100 Focus, 200 Strength. This would suggest the following leveling strategy for Embermage offensive stats (note that you probably have to take some appropriate amount of Vitality as well, but I haven't factored that in): - Level Strength and Focus evenly until they are both at 100 (this means your first few level ups will probably be used to boost Strength to the same level as your Focus) - At ~100 Focus, stop leveling Focus. Prioritize Strength while pumping a little bit of Dex so that you hit 150 Str/50 Dex - Level Strength and Dex evenly at this point, so that you hit 100 Dex and 200 Strength at this point. If Strength caps at 200, boost up your Focus and Dex toward the cap of 200. If there is no cap, then focus further on Strength, and pull up your Dex and Focus as you can. I've done similar calculations for effective HP on the engineer. You can reduce this to a 1D optimization problem. You can only put a max of 500 skill points into a stat and that requires level 93 (according to Torchlight Armory). Hence you can set str = x, and focus = 500 - x, sub this into your DPS formula and then vary x between 0 and 500 to see what maximizes DPS. Also things like crit, dodge etc do not increase linearly, but you can fit a perfect quadratic curve to it: http://torchlight2armory.com/skill-calc?i=2
Ok, so basically Dex is way worse than I thought it was.
I think I'm just going to split Str/Focus evenly, favoring Strength once I start finding % crit items. Dex doesn't feel worth it as a DPS stat.
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this game....is downright awesome. this is worth $60 imo
i'm a zerker, lv 14 right now playing elite mode. just killed general grell or whatever, but i love the skills.
i'm doing a 3str/2vit per lvl, and i'm using stormclaw with autoattacks as my main DPS, and it annihilates. using wolfshade as well for the healing. it's very fun.
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Engineer with Blast Cannon+ Fire and Spark passive maxing Strength makes elite mode seem like a joke tbh. As long as your cannon weapon remains relatively up to your current level I've had no trouble with any boss/area so far. Maxing heal bot for utility means at worst you just have to pot spam in sticky situations but at level 22 I've only wiped 5 times (and all to being lazy about using a potion xD). Maybe it will change in higher levels when my neglect of Vitality will catch up with me but it seems doubtful so far.
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On September 21 2012 11:36 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Totally can't log in right now, but holy shit is the log-in music straight from Diablo 2? I'm not complaining or anything, I fucking love it.
Matt Uelman, D2 Composer, also did the TL 2 score - and what I learned is that he can write about 5 very, very good songs, but that's about it. Not complaining, those songs are awesome, but if you compare the soundtracks, they might as well have just used the same score.
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On September 21 2012 11:57 eluv wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 11:36 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Totally can't log in right now, but holy shit is the log-in music straight from Diablo 2? I'm not complaining or anything, I fucking love it. Matt Uelman, D2 Composer, also did the TL 2 score - and what I learned is that he can write about 5 very, very good songs, but that's about it. Not complaining, those songs are awesome, but if you compare the soundtracks, they might as well have just used the same score.
I noticed the same thing. Sounded almost exactly alike with a few notes here and there changed.
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On September 21 2012 12:01 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 11:57 eluv wrote:On September 21 2012 11:36 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Totally can't log in right now, but holy shit is the log-in music straight from Diablo 2? I'm not complaining or anything, I fucking love it. Matt Uelman, D2 Composer, also did the TL 2 score - and what I learned is that he can write about 5 very, very good songs, but that's about it. Not complaining, those songs are awesome, but if you compare the soundtracks, they might as well have just used the same score. I noticed the same thing. Sounded almost exactly alike with a few notes here and there changed.
An evolution rather than a revolution. I'll allow it.
Hey, anyone got an effective stat writeup for the outlander?
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Played for five hours today, very fun. Using Berserker in veteran and trying to use a lot of skills and items that get me life steal and regen. Like everyone else said, way better than that other game that we don't talk about anymore 
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Playing Elite as a Berserker.
To survive through the 2nd floor of the 1st dungeon I already had to resort to some nasty Hit and Run tactics in order to fill the Charge gauge and go berserk to lifesteal/ kill them like crazy during those precious 5-6 seconds of Critical hits fest. That was intense. :D
I recommend playing it at above than normal difficulties, definitely more fun and tactical.
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Are you able to trade items once you are playing on Internet?
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jesus the archers in emberscratch mines rape face - melee classes beware on elite
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Seems like you can't play as a summoner in this game. Too bad.
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jesus christ i think i'm underleveled lol - i'm getting item drops from this place that are lv 23 and i'm 16 >.>
king pogg dead lol...strategy = run in, eviscerate, run the fuck away. rinse repeat.
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EPT
