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Smash Bros. Melee General Discussion - Page 54

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We have created an irc channel (#tl-smash on Quakenet) for people to find others to play with on Dolphin or just to chat about Smash. Feel free to join!
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8004 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-18 05:13:19
February 18 2014 05:10 GMT
#1061
Can someone explain to me in layman's terms the utility of wavedashing? (And more generally, the purpose). The stuff i've seen online is confusing for a guy that started researching the competitive scene literally less than a week ago. I can't do it yet very well at all, but it's also hard to use if I don't understand why i'm trying to use it.

edit: I main as Falcon; does wavedashing help move towards your opponent while still having the ability to attack, more importantly grab, and edgehog?
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
February 18 2014 05:20 GMT
#1062
I dunno, Falcon's wavedash isn't very good tbh. But yeah, it lets you move quickly (not necessarily toward your opponent) while letting you do any move (except dash attack I guess...), it lets you adjust your spacing, and it makes it easy to edgehog. It can also be used to quickly change direction if you're running. Wavelanding (basically a wavedash without the initial jump) is very useful for surprising your opponent / adjusting your spacing as well, and it's a good option for many characters when they're getting back on the stage from the ledge.

For Samus, for example, it's very important to be able to do things like wavedash forward/back -> ftilt/utilt/fsmash/dsmash to punish approaches / approach yourself. Of course, Samus has one of the better wavedashes; as Falcon, most of the time you'd rather be plain dashing, since you're probably going to jump out of it and do an aerial or something like that.
Writer
Antifate
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States415 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-18 05:25:48
February 18 2014 05:24 GMT
#1063
Wavedashing is just a utility option.

I think you've recognized the core utility in wavedashing in that you move while still having access to your ground, non-running attacks. Obviously, it is useful for retreating while not turning around. It is also very useful since it requires less commitment than say, a dash or a roll and kind of retains a higher degree of control. For example, if you dash for a while in one direction, you will, after a period, be unable to turn around without skidding, but wavedashing let's you access nearly all your options afterwards. By incorporating wavedashing into your movement, you will have more flexibility. There's some additional utility in wavedashing onto platforms (wavelanding) to improve your mobility across the stage, as well as wavedashing backwards for an easy edgehog. Wavedashing, since it starts with a jump, can also be used to follow up jumps, giving you mobility options out of shield or shine.
No one is taller than the last man standing.
Kyuukyuu
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada6263 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-18 07:32:42
February 18 2014 07:31 GMT
#1064
Wavedash:

1. Out of shield. This is less vulnerable (except on startup) than rolling, and less punishable in the endlag. You can act out of it at any point unlike rolling, and it's faster. It will also let you slide off of platforms if you find yourself shielding on one. WD OOS lets you punish laggy things like poorly spaced non-tipper Marth fsmash on your shield by wavedashing out and grabbing.

2. Waveland. On platforms, from the ledge, etc. Helps you platform techchase, gives you ledge recovery mixups (waveland onto stage, ledgehop up then waveland back down to refresh invincibility/fakeout aka Haxdashing), good for general speeding up of your platform game. Must do for characters like Ganon and Sheik who otherwise have pretty shitty horizontal aerial mobility.

3. During neutral game spacing shenanigans. It allows you to do fast turnarounds after the initial dash animation. It lets you move controllable distances quickly while still having all your ground options, unlike dashing. Also applicable for things like tech chasing for some characters.

4. Character specific stuff like general movement (Luigi, ICs), comboing (Fox/Falco out of shine) etc.

those are the main ones I tell new people because "ok i can wavedash... why would i ever use it" is a pretty common question
oob
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden630 Posts
February 18 2014 08:48 GMT
#1065
Man, beast was frikking awesome! Me and Dev got top8 in teams which we're both really happy about! Got to take out jeapies team and Overs team which I'd say was both quite the upsets.
Happiest man on earth
Xenocide_Knight
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Korea (South)2625 Posts
February 18 2014 10:54 GMT
#1066
If anyone every asks what wavedashing can do for you, just tell them to play a marth mirror. Marths regular dash is a nightmare without wavedashing.
Shine[Kal] #1 fan
slam
Profile Joined May 2010
United States923 Posts
February 18 2014 11:12 GMT
#1067
Just watched the documentary. Sooo good. Should be linked in the OP.
+ Show Spoiler +
Episode 1 of 9:
I get it.
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
February 18 2014 15:59 GMT
#1068
On February 18 2014 17:48 oob wrote:
Man, beast was frikking awesome! Me and Dev got top8 in teams which we're both really happy about! Got to take out jeapies team and Overs team which I'd say was both quite the upsets.


Helt ok spelat :D
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
February 18 2014 16:02 GMT
#1069
On February 18 2014 14:10 darthfoley wrote:
Can someone explain to me in layman's terms the utility of wavedashing? (And more generally, the purpose). The stuff i've seen online is confusing for a guy that started researching the competitive scene literally less than a week ago. I can't do it yet very well at all, but it's also hard to use if I don't understand why i'm trying to use it.

edit: I main as Falcon; does wavedashing help move towards your opponent while still having the ability to attack, more importantly grab, and edgehog?


You can wavedash out of shield which is a really good way of punishing someone hitting your shield with a long range move.

Wavedash isn't super useful with falcon but still very necessary for some stuff.

If you try using it with Luigi or Ice climbers you will see how awesome it is.
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
puppykiller
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States3137 Posts
February 19 2014 02:01 GMT
#1070
Wow the smash scene is a lot bigger than the BW scene. I just joined the Minnesota group. There is a whole healthy scene just for this state and people to play versus a wide variety of levels.
Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW?
oscar62
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada417 Posts
February 19 2014 10:48 GMT
#1071
On February 19 2014 11:01 puppykiller wrote:
Wow the smash scene is a lot bigger than the BW scene. I just joined the Minnesota group. There is a whole healthy scene just for this state and people to play versus a wide variety of levels.




smash is esports now baby
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8004 Posts
February 19 2014 20:26 GMT
#1072
officially starting to annoy my hallmates with my constant requests to smash. #success
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
February 20 2014 17:05 GMT
#1073
On February 20 2014 05:26 darthfoley wrote:
officially starting to annoy my hallmates with my constant requests to smash. #success


Sounds like they aren't really interested in competitive smash I hope there's a community in your area, otherwise start one!
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8004 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-22 07:20:19
February 22 2014 07:17 GMT
#1074
On February 21 2014 02:05 Zoler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 20 2014 05:26 darthfoley wrote:
officially starting to annoy my hallmates with my constant requests to smash. #success


Sounds like they aren't really interested in competitive smash I hope there's a community in your area, otherwise start one!


Yea, my girlfriend is so annoying as Link (constantly down smashing and down aerial) and no one else that I play with really seems interested in getting better in a competitive sense. Unfortunately, there isn't a huge community in Lancaster, PA lol. Philly is about an hour drive with a car I don't have.

Oh well, i'll just play cpu's and shit for now
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
LuckoftheIrish
Profile Joined November 2011
United States4791 Posts
February 22 2014 07:59 GMT
#1075
Just work on the things you can work on by yourself, you know? Everyone has to deal with something like this occasionally, where you really want to do something but can't really. So just practice the discrete skills until they're second nature, then when you get access to better and more reliable practice partners you can start putting it all together.
On Twitter @GosuGamers_LotI | Grubby has a huge head!
Moobla
Profile Joined May 2011
United States186 Posts
February 22 2014 09:22 GMT
#1076
On February 22 2014 16:17 darthfoley wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2014 02:05 Zoler wrote:
On February 20 2014 05:26 darthfoley wrote:
officially starting to annoy my hallmates with my constant requests to smash. #success


Sounds like they aren't really interested in competitive smash I hope there's a community in your area, otherwise start one!


Yea, my girlfriend is so annoying as Link (constantly down smashing and down aerial) and no one else that I play with really seems interested in getting better in a competitive sense. Unfortunately, there isn't a huge community in Lancaster, PA lol. Philly is about an hour drive with a car I don't have.

Oh well, i'll just play cpu's and shit for now


Check out the central Pennsylvania Facebook group, it's small and not exactly Lancaster but worth a shot in your situation: https://www.facebook.com/groups/centralPennSSB/

Also I just found this: http://smashboards.com/threads/harrisburg-pa-weekly-smash-nights.345125/ . At the bottom of the OP are a couple links to communities around Lancaster.
"If you aren't attacking, you are probably losing." -QXC
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
February 22 2014 10:05 GMT
#1077
for anybody who uses a xbox360 controller to play is it any good or should i just buy a usb adapter for gc controller
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
oob
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden630 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-22 18:36:37
February 22 2014 18:34 GMT
#1078
I dont use a xbox controller anymore sicne I bought an adapter. Best buy ever.

EDIT: rephrased it. Buy an adapter!
Happiest man on earth
peanuts
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States1225 Posts
February 22 2014 21:39 GMT
#1079
On February 20 2014 05:26 darthfoley wrote:
officially starting to annoy my hallmates with my constant requests to smash. #success


Just do what me and my friends do. We've got a sign on each of our door's, offering $5 for beating any of us. You'd be surprised at how many fairly decent people you can get like that. We're building a pretty decent scene, got about 7 or 8 good smashers now. Pretty good for our tiny little college. :D
Writer"My greatest skill is my enjoyment of the game" - Grubby | @TL_Peanuts
Kyuukyuu
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada6263 Posts
February 22 2014 22:00 GMT
#1080
On February 22 2014 19:05 rabidch wrote:
for anybody who uses a xbox360 controller to play is it any good or should i just buy a usb adapter for gc controller


well you can't exactly bring those to tournaments so unless you want to only play online for the rest of your "career" i'd invest in an adapter
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