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On January 20 2014 16:11 Kyuukyuu wrote: That was a pretty hype Top 8, all things considered. Leffen vs. Mango omfg.
Lost 20 bucks betting on that match. I was at the venue and had to drive to an atm because the one at the hotel was cashed out.
Why would you bet on leffen? Serious question haha.
It would've been 3-1 too if Mango didn't SD on FD.
Yeah I was extremely surprised Leffen managed to take two games, but Mango turned it on in game 5 I was also surprised that he beat HBox O_O
I'm not THAT surprised about Hbox tbh. Leffen has done well before and the matchup is immensely in foxs favor and this is coming from a high level fox main.
On January 20 2014 10:08 Duka08 wrote: Though, I will say, PP's Falco is easily the most entertaining. He makes everyone else's look stale, especially the people that switch from Fox to Falco between rounds.
o.O PP is easily the most standard, by the book player around
I can see that, but as far as the Falcos that showed up in Top 8, his looked better by a pretty good margin, and thus was more entertaining. That seemed to be the way everyone was playing that character (that I saw at least), and so whoever is the cleanest looks the best. There were other characters where style differences stood out more.
Changing subjects, I have a curiosity question for Melee fans/players. Few colleagues of mine have been motivated to start hosting some Melee events now (would NOT be surprised if it had to do with Apex haha), and I want to brush up a bit. I've played plenty of melee way back when, but I never picked up Fox. Obviously he's one of the best competitively, but I'm wondering, at "equal" levels of execution (my friends and I), will a Fox player be underhanded? Basically I guess I'm asking if he's still high-tier against similarly skilled opponents, or if you NEED better execution to make him work at all, even at low(er) levels of play.
Fox is still pretty good, just shieldgrab uthrow->uair everybody in the game. Sheik and Marth are OP for casuals though.
Nah, I definitely don't agree with this. You NEED to know SHFFL somewhat waveshine to even stand a chance vs equally skilled sheiks or marths.
I know a few players that started out with fox or falco, but didn't put in the techskill practice and very shortly got outclassed by their friends playing other characters. When they switched from spacies to other characters OR upped their techskill, it instantly became even, without any increase in game knowledge.
If you can't SHFFL you literally just lose to shieldgrab. No (decent) Sheik or Marth player is going to do aerials into a non-SHFFLing, shielding Fox. They're practically grapple characters. Marth will just juggle you to death on the free grabs, and Sheik can just sit at the edge. What are you going to do if you can't properly shield pressure a Sheik? If you approach her she'll just bthrow you off the stage and kill you.
On January 20 2014 16:11 Kyuukyuu wrote: That was a pretty hype Top 8, all things considered. Leffen vs. Mango omfg.
Lost 20 bucks betting on that match. I was at the venue and had to drive to an atm because the one at the hotel was cashed out.
Why would you bet on leffen? Serious question haha.
It would've been 3-1 too if Mango didn't SD on FD.
Yeah I was extremely surprised Leffen managed to take two games, but Mango turned it on in game 5 I was also surprised that he beat HBox O_O
I'm not THAT surprised about Hbox tbh. Leffen has done well before and the matchup is immensely in foxs favor and this is coming from a high level fox main.
On January 22 2014 07:09 Kyuukyuu wrote:
On January 22 2014 01:04 Duka08 wrote:
On January 20 2014 21:28 ShrieK wrote:
On January 20 2014 10:08 Duka08 wrote: Though, I will say, PP's Falco is easily the most entertaining. He makes everyone else's look stale, especially the people that switch from Fox to Falco between rounds.
o.O PP is easily the most standard, by the book player around
I can see that, but as far as the Falcos that showed up in Top 8, his looked better by a pretty good margin, and thus was more entertaining. That seemed to be the way everyone was playing that character (that I saw at least), and so whoever is the cleanest looks the best. There were other characters where style differences stood out more.
Changing subjects, I have a curiosity question for Melee fans/players. Few colleagues of mine have been motivated to start hosting some Melee events now (would NOT be surprised if it had to do with Apex haha), and I want to brush up a bit. I've played plenty of melee way back when, but I never picked up Fox. Obviously he's one of the best competitively, but I'm wondering, at "equal" levels of execution (my friends and I), will a Fox player be underhanded? Basically I guess I'm asking if he's still high-tier against similarly skilled opponents, or if you NEED better execution to make him work at all, even at low(er) levels of play.
Fox is still pretty good, just shieldgrab uthrow->uair everybody in the game. Sheik and Marth are OP for casuals though.
Nah, I definitely don't agree with this. You NEED to know SHFFL somewhat waveshine to even stand a chance vs equally skilled sheiks or marths.
I know a few players that started out with fox or falco, but didn't put in the techskill practice and very shortly got outclassed by their friends playing other characters. When they switched from spacies to other characters OR upped their techskill, it instantly became even, without any increase in game knowledge.
If you can't SHFFL you literally just lose to shieldgrab. No (decent) Sheik or Marth player is going to do aerials into a non-SHFFLing, shielding Fox. They're practically grapple characters. Marth will just juggle you to death on the free grabs, and Sheik can just sit at the edge. What are you going to do if you can't properly shield pressure a Sheik? If you approach her she'll just bthrow you off the stage and kill you.
Did you mean to quote the guy before me or something?
On January 20 2014 16:11 Kyuukyuu wrote: That was a pretty hype Top 8, all things considered. Leffen vs. Mango omfg.
Lost 20 bucks betting on that match. I was at the venue and had to drive to an atm because the one at the hotel was cashed out.
Why would you bet on leffen? Serious question haha.
It would've been 3-1 too if Mango didn't SD on FD.
Yeah I was extremely surprised Leffen managed to take two games, but Mango turned it on in game 5 I was also surprised that he beat HBox O_O
I'm not THAT surprised about Hbox tbh. Leffen has done well before and the matchup is immensely in foxs favor and this is coming from a high level fox main.
On January 22 2014 07:09 Kyuukyuu wrote:
On January 22 2014 01:04 Duka08 wrote:
On January 20 2014 21:28 ShrieK wrote:
On January 20 2014 10:08 Duka08 wrote: Though, I will say, PP's Falco is easily the most entertaining. He makes everyone else's look stale, especially the people that switch from Fox to Falco between rounds.
o.O PP is easily the most standard, by the book player around
I can see that, but as far as the Falcos that showed up in Top 8, his looked better by a pretty good margin, and thus was more entertaining. That seemed to be the way everyone was playing that character (that I saw at least), and so whoever is the cleanest looks the best. There were other characters where style differences stood out more.
Changing subjects, I have a curiosity question for Melee fans/players. Few colleagues of mine have been motivated to start hosting some Melee events now (would NOT be surprised if it had to do with Apex haha), and I want to brush up a bit. I've played plenty of melee way back when, but I never picked up Fox. Obviously he's one of the best competitively, but I'm wondering, at "equal" levels of execution (my friends and I), will a Fox player be underhanded? Basically I guess I'm asking if he's still high-tier against similarly skilled opponents, or if you NEED better execution to make him work at all, even at low(er) levels of play.
Fox is still pretty good, just shieldgrab uthrow->uair everybody in the game. Sheik and Marth are OP for casuals though.
Nah, I definitely don't agree with this. You NEED to know SHFFL somewhat waveshine to even stand a chance vs equally skilled sheiks or marths.
I know a few players that started out with fox or falco, but didn't put in the techskill practice and very shortly got outclassed by their friends playing other characters. When they switched from spacies to other characters OR upped their techskill, it instantly became even, without any increase in game knowledge.
If you can't SHFFL you literally just lose to shieldgrab. No (decent) Sheik or Marth player is going to do aerials into a non-SHFFLing, shielding Fox. They're practically grapple characters. Marth will just juggle you to death on the free grabs, and Sheik can just sit at the edge. What are you going to do if you can't properly shield pressure a Sheik? If you approach her she'll just bthrow you off the stage and kill you.
Did you mean to quote the guy before me or something?
On February 02 2014 14:46 yamato77 wrote: Met Wobbles today. Dude is seriously one of the nicest people ever. And really smart. He has excellent analytical skills.
Everyone should check out Wobbles blog about competitive psychology etc. !!
On January 18 2014 18:48 puppykiller wrote: We just got my old copy of smash in my new house and my roomate and I have been playing it. He play's marth exclusively where I play mostly samus and falco. Neither of us can wave dash, though we can both short hop most of the time depending on our character and I can L cancel air smashes and falls decently, whats the next thing I should learn so that he never beats me? :D
Bear in mind SC BW is my main time sink...
You have chosen two really technical characters to play. I know next to nothing about samus, I just know people say she's pretty technical, but here's some tips for Marth and Falco.
Both of you should learn to wavedash and shffle consistently. That's like the fundamental fundamentals of smash movement. Your friend should practice dash dancing and chaingrabs. When he learns to chaingrab you're not going to want to play him anymore. He could also try stuff like short hop double fair, but that's not a super important move to know. One of the top marths in the US, Ken, recently put up a 2 hour tutorial for marth. It's on youtube, you'll find it.
Falco is a pretty technical character and you might have to put in some time to make him really usable. For both Fox and Falco waveshining is crucial. You should also use to short hop(fast fall) laser. Marth is really dangerous for Falco because of his grab and you're pretty much gonna need to use your laser to keep him at bay. Both of these can feel pretty daunting in the beginning(especially waveshining) but give it a few hours worth of practice and you're going to be able to start incorporating it in your game and then you can practice by just playing your friend. Basic combo stuff like pillaring(jumping from shine into dair) should also definitely be practiced.
If you wanna go really technical you could practice shield pressure. That shit is pretty hard, but it's fun to use in matches and is one of Falcos greatest strengths. You can short hop laser into your opponent, and either they eat the laser and you get a combo or they shield it and you get to use some of Falcos super scary shield pressure. It's basically a mix of shines, multi-shines(canceling your shine into a jump and canceling the jump animation into another shine), shffld areals cancled into shines and an odd jab or tilt. Multi-shining is one of these pretty useful tools that isn't crucial for your game, so definately make sure you know the more basic stuff before you go into that.
Marth is not as technical, but your friend could practice powershielding your lasers if he wants to practice some tough stuff. It's actually not as hard as you would think(even though it's really hard to do consistently) and you feel like a badass when doing it in a match. It's good for your matchup too, since it can be really hard for Marth to play around Falco's lasers. Good tool to have.
A tips for practicing tech is to learn the name entry glitch. If you bring up the menue for choosing names(in the character select screen, just press the name of your selected character), hold B and press A just when the screen is about to go back to the regular menue. If you do this while you only have one character selected you can play alone on the level of your choosing. Then you can jump around and try stuff without being botherd by bots. Even this takes a bit of practice though. Pretty sure it's frame perfect, but it becomes second nature after a while.
And a very general advice for Falco vs Marth. Priority number one is not getting grabbed as Falco. You're gonna be in a world of hurt(as long as your friend knows how to chaingrab).
Fuck this made me feel like playing. Gonna boot up the old cube and practice some moves. If you're wondering anything else, feel free to ask. I'm far from the best player in the world but I main Fox so I could probably help you out with some of the technical aspects of the game since Fox and Falco have very similar advanced techniques. Unless of course this post helped to discourage you from playing Falco. Which it probably did. But he's a darn good and cool character once you know the basics. I'd say that he's probably one of the best characters in the game for like technical newbies. If you know his basic stuff it can be really hard to counter for players of equal skill. SHL(short hop laser) in combination with his amazing combo game can be hard to handle.
Man you gave me such great advice but no one will play me now that I can shuffle lol.
guys how the hell do you get good at consistently shffling nairs forwards and backwards? Which button do you press for jump, how do you press it and do you use Z or A to attack? Any tips on drilling shffl'd nairs?
I play Smash casually with some friends with college, usually main as Captain Falcon or Yoshi (when I feel like trolling). Great game-- and addicting as hell.
Just curious, i'm assuming the tournaments are played on the Gamecube version of the game? I have basically 0 knowledge of the competitive side of the game, but i'm trying to get into it just to become a slightly better player.
On February 13 2014 01:57 darthfoley wrote: I play Smash casually with some friends with college, usually main as Captain Falcon or Yoshi (when I feel like trolling). Great game-- and addicting as hell.
Just curious, i'm assuming the tournaments are played on the Gamecube version of the game? I have basically 0 knowledge of the competitive side of the game, but i'm trying to get into it just to become a slightly better player.
Smash on!
Yes, Melee (like the thread title ) is currently having a big resurgence in tournament numbers, media/tourney attention, and new players due to things like our road to EVO ($100k raised for breast cancer, Nintendo stopping our stream, backlash making them let us stream again, 135k twitch viewers) and the Smash documentary that came out:
That said, Brawl still has a fairly large active scene (just shy of 400 entrants at the recent major APEX 2014). I don't know anything about it though.
On February 13 2014 01:42 sc4k wrote: guys how the hell do you get good at consistently shffling nairs forwards and backwards? Which button do you press for jump, how do you press it and do you use Z or A to attack? Any tips on drilling shffl'd nairs?
Just practice really. It's the same concept as Falco's advancing lasers, if you can do those just press A instead of B and you're set.
On February 13 2014 01:42 sc4k wrote: guys how the hell do you get good at consistently shffling nairs forwards and backwards? Which button do you press for jump, how do you press it and do you use Z or A to attack? Any tips on drilling shffl'd nairs?
Which button do you press for jump? Most players use x / y, preferably x. I once read somewhere that Hungrybox is the only pro using the 3d stick to jump (scrub puff players ^-^/ ); personally, when I first started out I also used 3d stick to jump (playing Link mostly), switched to x / y later on (took ages to get rid of my old habbits), because I couldn't execute techniques fast enough with faster characters like Marth. Most players also rely on the c-stick (instead of a+3d stick) for shffling aerials, like Ken for instance.
How do you get good at it? Divide and conquer: after mastering short hop / fast fall, start off with long jump l-cancel neutrals, then aerials, lastly combine everything. The rest is just practice, really. It might be easier to practice it with slower characters first, like ganondorf or with marth's dairs.
One technique my friend YCZ6 uses to shorthop consistently is to sort of "slide your finger off the button" (X in his case): put your finger sort of on the edge of the X button, then press it down and slide off quickly. Unfortunately I haven't figured out how to do this when moving my thumb back to the X button from a different button -_- so I just try to tap X lightly, and consequently miss like 30% of my shorthops
I also can't, for the life of me, successfully shorthop out of shine, since I guess I press buttons too hard... I hit down-B, then move my thumb back to X, then apparently mash the shit out of the button and full jump... In fact, since I'm so bad at SHing out of shine, I starting jumping out of shine with the control stick loooooool
maybe I should also learn how to do aerials with direction-A instead of cstick; maybe that'd make it easier for me to move my thumb around since A is close to B/X...?
I wrap my right index finger around and flick it off of the left side of the Y button to shorthop. That frees my middle finger for pressing Z and my right thumb for pressing A, B, C-stick.
thanks for the advice people. I have learned with a standard grip and lightly tapping Y as ]343[. The same as him, I have a huge trouble keeping my shorthopping consistent. I think I will try the sliding off style and maybe even the index finger thing. It might be hell to learn though!!!!
So does anyone use Z to attack mid air or is it A for most ppl?
Also, to be competitive with Marth do you always need to jump cancel grabs?
EPT
In fact, since I'm so bad at SHing out of shine, I starting jumping out of shine with the control stick loooooool
