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Zest Fan Club - Page 231

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Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
April 29 2018 08:43 GMT
#4601
I think you guys are being a bit harsh, he was clearly very ill that is going to affect you mentally and physically, I think he played pretty well considering and showed some good PvZ. His PvP might need some work but trap is no slouch and that is probably the matchup you are most going to be hurt in by being ill.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
April 29 2018 08:56 GMT
#4602
On April 29 2018 05:09 Rolltide wrote:
I agree with Red_Viper. His play has not been that impressive. Remember he barely made the cut for the final 32.

He certainly has the time to get in better shape especially if he can get past this virus he has. When he last won GSL in the past he was so unbeatable he hardly lost a map up until the 4-2 final vs TY.

I don''t understand the anti Stalker builds. Stalkers were the bread and butter unit back in HOTS and now when they are 30% more lethal nobody seems to base their army on them. Why? Archons and Immortals are not new to LOTV and were not changed with LOTV or the patch.

Adepts are just an early scouting unit these days.



I don't know what you're on about. The standard PvT openings are blink/robo or oracle/blink. Stalkers are just trash against Zerg, that's why nobody builds them. And they're not useful past the early game in PvP. So not sure what you want.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-29 17:22:53
April 29 2018 17:21 GMT
#4603
I don't know what you're on about. The standard PvT openings are blink/robo or oracle/blink. Stalkers are just trash against Zerg, that's why nobody builds them. And they're not useful past the early game in PvP. So not sure what you want.


Wow how rude you are. I'm not "on about" anything and I don't want anything. Protoss players make fewer Stalkers today then they did in 2015 which makes no sense. They were improved with the last major patch.



Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-29 17:57:49
April 29 2018 17:52 GMT
#4604
On April 30 2018 02:21 Rolltide wrote:
Show nested quote +
I don't know what you're on about. The standard PvT openings are blink/robo or oracle/blink. Stalkers are just trash against Zerg, that's why nobody builds them. And they're not useful past the early game in PvP. So not sure what you want.


Wow how rude you are. I'm not "on about" anything and I don't want anything. Protoss players make fewer Stalkers today then they did in 2015 which makes no sense. They were improved with the last major patch.





Actually it makes plently of sense. 2015 PvZ was centered around blink/sentry openings that, for a huge amount of reasons, are terrible now. Reasons include: Ravagers exist and blink/sentry relies heavily on forcefields to survive. Hydras are really strong units now compared to how they were in HotS. And on top of that lurkers now exist, putting any sort of stalker-heavy playstyle on a timer.

LotV is an entirely new expansion for a reason, the game is vastly different now. The stalker changes are tiny in comparison to all the added factors that make them terrible as core army units outside of PvT. In the meantime, zealots were buffed (charge now improves their movement speed more than it used to and I believe the guaranteed hit upon charge also came with LotV) and immortals were changed (barrier instead of hardened shields makes them a lot stronger vs units that previously countered them), making the charge/archon/immortal playstyle a lot stronger overall.

And in PvP they have the same role as they used to. They're an early game option for aggression, timings and map control, but they're essentially useless as a core army unit once 2+ immortals are out.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
April 29 2018 19:22 GMT
#4605
Hydras are really strong units now compared to how they were in HotS.


The stalker changes are tiny in comparison




I would not consider a 30% increase in damage tiny. That means that 10 Stalkers now can deal the same damage as 13 in Hots. Damage went from 10 to 13.

Stalkers deal more damage than Hydras, 13 vs 12 and even with the increase in speed for Hydras Stalkers move faster. 4.13 vs 3.15(3.9 with upgrade). No other changes were made to Hydras.

So you have a unit that moves as fast as a Hydra on creep, deals more damage and has an upgrade to blink. Yep inferior.

And please don't lecture about the LOTV expansion. The damn change to Stalkers occurred in the November patch.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
April 29 2018 19:48 GMT
#4606
Ok then.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
yangluphil
Profile Joined July 2015
318 Posts
April 30 2018 05:54 GMT
#4607
On April 30 2018 04:22 Rolltide wrote:
Show nested quote +
Hydras are really strong units now compared to how they were in HotS.


Show nested quote +
The stalker changes are tiny in comparison




I would not consider a 30% increase in damage tiny. That means that 10 Stalkers now can deal the same damage as 13 in Hots. Damage went from 10 to 13.

Stalkers deal more damage than Hydras, 13 vs 12 and even with the increase in speed for Hydras Stalkers move faster. 4.13 vs 3.15(3.9 with upgrade). No other changes were made to Hydras.

So you have a unit that moves as fast as a Hydra on creep, deals more damage and has an upgrade to blink. Yep inferior.

And please don't lecture about the LOTV expansion. The damn change to Stalkers occurred in the November patch.

lol you saw heavy stalkers in HOTS because force field work well with anything that is ranged and does not deal terrible damage (Stalkers are only borderline terrible), not because stalkers themselves were "bread and butter units".

In LOTV,
Stalkers' DPS: 9.7
Hydra's DPS: 22.4

Did I mention Stalker is more expensive? Stalkers are versatile units but are simply not designed for head-on engagements.
Neither party will be missed.
Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
May 03 2018 14:09 GMT
#4608
Hydras are an under used unit also. So many times I'll watch a Zerg player start making them only when it is inevitable the opponent is going to air.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
May 03 2018 15:58 GMT
#4609
Every PvZ that isn't a ling flood, baneling bust or roach based all in has hydras. They're by no means underused.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
May 03 2018 16:05 GMT
#4610
I thought Rolltide was banned from this thread, but I'm happy to be wrong :D
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
May 03 2018 20:07 GMT
#4611
Zest lost in rd 2 of the Kung Fu cup today.

He beat a Chinese player in rd 1 but lost to Hero 2-1 in rd 2.

Inno beat Impact in the champion match. Disappointing that Zest did not get any cash for his efforts.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
May 04 2018 10:05 GMT
#4612
I'm not really sold on Zest's PvP at the moment. He's doing lots of proxies and sure, that does work alright in the current meta, but he looks second best in a lot of standard games I've seen from him recently. His thirds are late and he gets stuck in these awkward situations where he adds gates before third but doesn't really have a viable timing, so just falls behind, or he adds his third on time and doesn't continue probe production, again forcing him into these awkward, not really good timings. It's a shame because his early game is impeccable so he's got the foundations to play really strong standard, timing oriented PvP, it's just poor decisionmaking in mid-lategame keeping him down.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
May 04 2018 11:37 GMT
#4613
Zest is 1-4 in maps against quality Protoss players recently. Trap and Hero.

In map one(Acid plant) vs Trap Zest does an all in with Stalkers and Archons. As he is preparing to move Trap uses 2 Oracles to kill half of Zest's probes so the worker edge for Trap is 20-9 as Zest moves.

Trap has the smaller army so he concedes his natural and moves his army up the ramp to protect his main.

At this point the better thing for Zest to do would be to just wipe out Trap's natural. It is unprotected. Zest could have taken the roughly 10 probes and the Nexxus, maybe even the other buildings as well Trap had 2 shield batteries there. Instead he ignores all that and goes up the ramp. During the fight Trap is able to warp in just enough Stalkers to hold Zest off and Zest types GG.



Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
May 04 2018 11:43 GMT
#4614
In map 2(Backwater) vs Trap Zest lost a close battle mainly because he allowed himself to get supply blocked just before the fight. Trap was able to get one extra warp in just before the fight. Trap's micro was also a tiny bit better.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
May 04 2018 12:02 GMT
#4615
On May 04 2018 20:37 Rolltide wrote:
Zest is 1-4 in maps against quality Protoss players recently. Trap and Hero.

In map one(Acid plant) vs Trap Zest does an all in with Stalkers and Archons. As he is preparing to move Trap uses 2 Oracles to kill half of Zest's probes so the worker edge for Trap is 20-9 as Zest moves.

Trap has the smaller army so he concedes his natural and moves his army up the ramp to protect his main.

At this point the better thing for Zest to do would be to just wipe out Trap's natural. It is unprotected. Zest could have taken the roughly 10 probes and the Nexxus, maybe even the other buildings as well Trap had 2 shield batteries there. Instead he ignores all that and goes up the ramp. During the fight Trap is able to warp in just enough Stalkers to hold Zest off and Zest types GG.





You're wrong here, Zest was 100% all in after the oracles hit his base. No way back into the game if he doesn't immediately kill Trap.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-11 00:04:52
May 10 2018 13:38 GMT
#4616
Zest playing Nice in Kung Fu cup today. He beat Danfran a Chinese player and beat special 2-0.

Nice is probably the best Protoss in China/Taiwan now. Better I think than Cyan or Has. He beat Ryung to get that far so he is not a pushover. Zest will beat him.
ADTempys
Profile Joined December 2017
Finland60 Posts
May 10 2018 15:26 GMT
#4617
Amazing micro in this last game
Zest is Best
bestiszest
Profile Joined March 2015
France103 Posts
May 10 2018 15:40 GMT
#4618
Damn Her0 had secured a pretty convincing 2-0 lead when I left missed the reverse
Kt Rolster Zest and TY myboys freaking teamkills :'(
Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
May 10 2018 22:16 GMT
#4619
Zest might be the best PvP player out there now. I think he is over his illness.
AzAlexZ
Profile Joined September 2016
Australia3303 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-11 01:01:49
May 11 2018 00:53 GMT
#4620
On May 11 2018 07:16 Rolltide wrote:
Zest might be the best PvP player out there now. I think he is over his illness.

beating herO 3-2 and one other non-korean (not even top foreigner) protoss does not warrant best PvP player, not even close.
Neeb beat herO 3-1 like 2 weeks ago in an offline tournament in China, and eMotion knocked him out in GSL qualifiers, in fact, the only notable protoss herO took out in the last few weeks was Zest (in the Kung Fu Cup before this one and in GSL ST#1) and online Stats who sucks compared to offline Stats.
herO is in a slump in PvP, he sucks in this matchup compared to the likes of Stats, Classic and Trap.

Zest has definitely improved in the matchup though, but far from the best.
Faker is the GOAT!
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