EPTZest Fan Club - Page 231
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On April 29 2018 05:09 Rolltide wrote: I agree with Red_Viper. His play has not been that impressive. Remember he barely made the cut for the final 32. He certainly has the time to get in better shape especially if he can get past this virus he has. When he last won GSL in the past he was so unbeatable he hardly lost a map up until the 4-2 final vs TY. I don''t understand the anti Stalker builds. Stalkers were the bread and butter unit back in HOTS and now when they are 30% more lethal nobody seems to base their army on them. Why? Archons and Immortals are not new to LOTV and were not changed with LOTV or the patch. Adepts are just an early scouting unit these days. I don't know what you're on about. The standard PvT openings are blink/robo or oracle/blink. Stalkers are just trash against Zerg, that's why nobody builds them. And they're not useful past the early game in PvP. So not sure what you want. | ||
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Rolltide
United States447 Posts
I don't know what you're on about. The standard PvT openings are blink/robo or oracle/blink. Stalkers are just trash against Zerg, that's why nobody builds them. And they're not useful past the early game in PvP. So not sure what you want. Wow how rude you are. I'm not "on about" anything and I don't want anything. Protoss players make fewer Stalkers today then they did in 2015 which makes no sense. They were improved with the last major patch. | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On April 30 2018 02:21 Rolltide wrote: Wow how rude you are. I'm not "on about" anything and I don't want anything. Protoss players make fewer Stalkers today then they did in 2015 which makes no sense. They were improved with the last major patch. Actually it makes plently of sense. 2015 PvZ was centered around blink/sentry openings that, for a huge amount of reasons, are terrible now. Reasons include: Ravagers exist and blink/sentry relies heavily on forcefields to survive. Hydras are really strong units now compared to how they were in HotS. And on top of that lurkers now exist, putting any sort of stalker-heavy playstyle on a timer. LotV is an entirely new expansion for a reason, the game is vastly different now. The stalker changes are tiny in comparison to all the added factors that make them terrible as core army units outside of PvT. In the meantime, zealots were buffed (charge now improves their movement speed more than it used to and I believe the guaranteed hit upon charge also came with LotV) and immortals were changed (barrier instead of hardened shields makes them a lot stronger vs units that previously countered them), making the charge/archon/immortal playstyle a lot stronger overall. And in PvP they have the same role as they used to. They're an early game option for aggression, timings and map control, but they're essentially useless as a core army unit once 2+ immortals are out. | ||
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Rolltide
United States447 Posts
Hydras are really strong units now compared to how they were in HotS. The stalker changes are tiny in comparison I would not consider a 30% increase in damage tiny. That means that 10 Stalkers now can deal the same damage as 13 in Hots. Damage went from 10 to 13. Stalkers deal more damage than Hydras, 13 vs 12 and even with the increase in speed for Hydras Stalkers move faster. 4.13 vs 3.15(3.9 with upgrade). No other changes were made to Hydras. So you have a unit that moves as fast as a Hydra on creep, deals more damage and has an upgrade to blink. Yep inferior. And please don't lecture about the LOTV expansion. The damn change to Stalkers occurred in the November patch. | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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yangluphil
318 Posts
On April 30 2018 04:22 Rolltide wrote: I would not consider a 30% increase in damage tiny. That means that 10 Stalkers now can deal the same damage as 13 in Hots. Damage went from 10 to 13. Stalkers deal more damage than Hydras, 13 vs 12 and even with the increase in speed for Hydras Stalkers move faster. 4.13 vs 3.15(3.9 with upgrade). No other changes were made to Hydras. So you have a unit that moves as fast as a Hydra on creep, deals more damage and has an upgrade to blink. Yep inferior. And please don't lecture about the LOTV expansion. The damn change to Stalkers occurred in the November patch. lol you saw heavy stalkers in HOTS because force field work well with anything that is ranged and does not deal terrible damage (Stalkers are only borderline terrible), not because stalkers themselves were "bread and butter units". In LOTV, Stalkers' DPS: 9.7 Hydra's DPS: 22.4 Did I mention Stalker is more expensive? Stalkers are versatile units but are simply not designed for head-on engagements. | ||
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Rolltide
United States447 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Rolltide
United States447 Posts
He beat a Chinese player in rd 1 but lost to Hero 2-1 in rd 2. Inno beat Impact in the champion match. Disappointing that Zest did not get any cash for his efforts. | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Rolltide
United States447 Posts
In map one(Acid plant) vs Trap Zest does an all in with Stalkers and Archons. As he is preparing to move Trap uses 2 Oracles to kill half of Zest's probes so the worker edge for Trap is 20-9 as Zest moves. Trap has the smaller army so he concedes his natural and moves his army up the ramp to protect his main. At this point the better thing for Zest to do would be to just wipe out Trap's natural. It is unprotected. Zest could have taken the roughly 10 probes and the Nexxus, maybe even the other buildings as well Trap had 2 shield batteries there. Instead he ignores all that and goes up the ramp. During the fight Trap is able to warp in just enough Stalkers to hold Zest off and Zest types GG. | ||
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Rolltide
United States447 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On May 04 2018 20:37 Rolltide wrote: Zest is 1-4 in maps against quality Protoss players recently. Trap and Hero. In map one(Acid plant) vs Trap Zest does an all in with Stalkers and Archons. As he is preparing to move Trap uses 2 Oracles to kill half of Zest's probes so the worker edge for Trap is 20-9 as Zest moves. Trap has the smaller army so he concedes his natural and moves his army up the ramp to protect his main. At this point the better thing for Zest to do would be to just wipe out Trap's natural. It is unprotected. Zest could have taken the roughly 10 probes and the Nexxus, maybe even the other buildings as well Trap had 2 shield batteries there. Instead he ignores all that and goes up the ramp. During the fight Trap is able to warp in just enough Stalkers to hold Zest off and Zest types GG. You're wrong here, Zest was 100% all in after the oracles hit his base. No way back into the game if he doesn't immediately kill Trap. | ||
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Rolltide
United States447 Posts
Nice is probably the best Protoss in China/Taiwan now. Better I think than Cyan or Has. He beat Ryung to get that far so he is not a pushover. Zest will beat him. | ||
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ADTempys
Finland60 Posts
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bestiszest
France103 Posts
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Rolltide
United States447 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On May 11 2018 07:16 Rolltide wrote: Zest might be the best PvP player out there now. I think he is over his illness. beating herO 3-2 and one other non-korean (not even top foreigner) protoss does not warrant best PvP player, not even close. Neeb beat herO 3-1 like 2 weeks ago in an offline tournament in China, and eMotion knocked him out in GSL qualifiers, in fact, the only notable protoss herO took out in the last few weeks was Zest (in the Kung Fu Cup before this one and in GSL ST#1) and online Stats who sucks compared to offline Stats. herO is in a slump in PvP, he sucks in this matchup compared to the likes of Stats, Classic and Trap. Zest has definitely improved in the matchup though, but far from the best. | ||
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