MC Fan Club - Page 191

It's like what Idra mentioned on Inside the Game, and EVEN Destiny agreed.

Don't quote me on this, I could be wrong..

"Protoss players are fucking stupid, they make a death ball even if they scout for what the opponent is going... If they just turtle to 3 - 4 bases and mass up, there's nothing that Zerg can do.."

On September 19 2011 23:51 Kenti wrote:
It's like what Idra mentioned on Inside the Game, and EVEN Destiny agreed.

Don't quote me on this, I could be wrong..

"Protoss players are fucking stupid, they make a death ball even if they scout for what the opponent is going... If they just turtle to 3 - 4 bases and mass up, there's nothing that Zerg can do.."

I'm not hating on MC or anything but he didn't build not 10, not 5, but Zero High Templars to counter the Infestors...

Game 1 - was Irrelevant because he won regardless
Game 2 - is definately out of the question since there were ling run-by into his base a couple of
times which ended up costing him the game.

Game 3 -
* He went Forge FE into a Mass Zealot + Sentries with Hallucination Composition early game.

* Then he started adding Collosus regardless of what he scouted... Which was a relatively early Lair and an Infestation Pit.

* A couple of minutes later, Monster attacked his front with mass Lings and Infestors but MC did not react after successfuly defending the attack. (When I say react, I meant he didn't throw down a Templar Archive)

* Mutas Then came into his based and started harassing, Which he countered relatively easy with Blink Stalkers

Anyways, The point that I'm trying to make is that he did not make 1 High Temps on game 3.

Monster saw that and took advantage of the situation.

Still I don't want to judge MC based on 1 game, since that last engagement was pretty garbage.

His Stalkers was caught off position in the upper left side of the map, All of them got fungaled and obliterated by mass Lings + Mutas.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Maybe MC is on a tilt? Other things distracting him? Well w/e It is, I Look forward to seeing him dominate at MLG Orlando.

MC!! Hwaittting!!!

On September 19 2011 16:59 HolyArrow wrote:


Sadly, I must agree. I already stopped watching since the middle of last season, just because it's not fun anymore. I tune in expecting my favorite Protoss heroes to get creamed, and that exact thing happens, and it's just depressing - I've already passed the stage of being cautiously hopeful. I watch to have fun or at least feel some sort of positive excitement. But right now, all I feel while watching is a sense of dread that is almost always realized. I don't think I'll be watching the GSL again for some time. It's just not fun. As a huge Alicia and MC fan, I'm done for now. At least MKP and MVP fans got to see their hero rise out of Code A and get back into Code S. Too bad this doesn't happen for the Protoss heroes. This isn't even a complaint about imbalance, though I guess it can't help but be implied. This is just a rant of a fan - a fan who has been with the GSL since FruitDealer's dream run - whose viewing experience has been utterly ruined. Good luck, MC. You singlehandedly made Protoss "OP". You were the first player to win two GSLs. You deserve so much more than what is happening right now.

On September 19 2011 23:51 Kenti wrote:
It's like what Idra mentioned on Inside the Game, and EVEN Destiny agreed.

Don't quote me on this, I could be wrong..

"Protoss players are fucking stupid, they make a death ball even if they scout for what the opponent is going... If they just turtle to 3 - 4 bases and mass up, there's nothing that Zerg can do.."

I'm not hating on MC or anything but he didn't build not 10, not 5, but Zero High Templars to counter the Infestors...

Game 1 - was Irrelevant because he won regardless
Game 2 - is definately out of the question since there were ling run-by into his base a couple of
times which ended up costing him the game.

Game 3 -
* He went Forge FE into a Mass Zealot + Sentries with Hallucination Composition early game.

* Then he started adding Collosus regardless of what he scouted... Which was a relatively early Lair and an Infestation Pit.

* A couple of minutes later, Monster attacked his front with mass Lings and Infestors but MC did not react after successfuly defending the attack. (When I say react, I meant he didn't throw down a Templar Archive)

* Mutas Then came into his based and started harassing, Which he countered relatively easy with Blink Stalkers

Anyways, The point that I'm trying to make is that he did not make 1 High Temps on game 3.

Monster saw that and took advantage of the situation.

Still I don't want to judge MC based on 1 game, since that last engagement was pretty garbage.

His Stalkers was caught off position in the upper left side of the map, All of them got fungaled and obliterated by mass Lings + Mutas.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Maybe MC is on a tilt? Other things distracting him? Well w/e It is, I Look forward to seeing him dominate at MLG Orlando.

MC!! Hwaittting!!!

On September 20 2011 01:48 Heavenly wrote:


Oh shit, IdrA and Destiny said it? They're like, the best ZvPers in the world aren't they?

You want MC to throw down a templar archives after scouting ling/infestor when he barely even had the gas to make enough stalkers to defend against mutas? MC lost solely because of the map. He could NEVER secure a third and it's GSL's fault they made the deciding match be on a map that favors zerg about as much as Steppes of War favored terran. Any zerg who loses on Dual Sight must have decided it'd be funny to make it even by playing with one hand. Look what happened on the map that actually allowed MC to take a safe third at almost the same timing any zerg could take his. It was never even close.

If people think there isn't some retardation going on in this game, ask yourself what protoss in the world ever looks like he could actually beat Losira or Nestea or even Cocoa. Now ask yourself how many mediocre terrans can take games off them.

On September 20 2011 02:03 marttorn wrote:


I... I think this is balance whining

I'm not gonna comment on the balance part of your post, but yeah taking Destiny's and IdrA's word as truth maybe isn't entirely wise.

On September 20 2011 02:07 Heavenly wrote:


No, it was map whining. The imbalanced part of the matchup wouldn't be coming into play if the maps were better the same way the most imbalanced part of the vT matchup doesn't happen when it's not close-spawns. I have no idea what GSL was thinking when they introduced such blatantly stupid maps as Dual Sight and Bel'shir Beach. When MC was able to secure a third base he made Monster look completely retarded, like he should have.

On September 20 2011 03:55 Stanlot wrote:
I will preface this long post with the fact that I am not very good at starcraft 2 but that I don't take the professional level of SC2 esports lightly. These are my own opinions and I don't wish to enforce them on anyone, but I wish to be heard and have a discussion on what I feel is the root problem causing the current state of protoss competition.

I don't think we'll be seeing any protoss dominance reemerge until/unless a massive redesign in HotS occurs. Protoss is far too fragile in the early game and barring a perfectly executed first ten minutes or a build order win, protoss has to be able to fight their way into the mid/late game from a deficit more often than not. The fact is, right now T and Z have figured us out with our previously powerful timings and our once superb forcefield utility is now merely a way to delay a game ending push. And it feels to many of us, there doesn't seem to be a way out. I'm not saying that it's impossible to be a viable competitive race at the moment, but I am saying that there is a clear problem caused by the design of the race that has to be reworked.
Warpgates are something that most definitely need to be tweaked. The warp in mechanic, in my opinion, prevents giving protoss any sort of durability in the early game. Sure, they're great once you have a decent economy and can afford losing a portion of your army without being rolled in the following minute, but the fact that they allow us to instantly replenish a good chunk of our army supply in mostly upgraded T1 units means that we can't have a balance change that makes the base gateway units better.
I think we can all agree that gateway units in the early game are quite expensive and not specialized at holding off pressure or harassment. Zealots are melee, which already puts them at a disadvantage, are slow and easily kited by most ranged units or surrounded by faster melee units and they cost 2 supply and 100 mins as our cheapest and earliest army unit. Stalkers have low dps, making them less valuable in army engagements and poor at taking out drops unless in sufficient numbers. Sentries are overall weak and not used for attacking and are a huge gas sink but possess our only saving grace with the forcefield spell. Sentries are probably the best unit we have for surviving the early game. Zealots and stalkers on the other hand are problematic in that they will eventually have charge and blink, respectively. Giving them these skills effectively makes give them far more utility than their unupgraded counterparts by leaps and bounds. To make them stronger to compensate for the early game would make them far too powerful later on due to the twiight council upgrades. I'm not saying the upgrades should be removed or changed, but that they, along with the growth in econ that with the natural progression of a match, will make stronger base gateway units too useful after the early stages of a game and thus make balance changes that buff gateway units unreasonable.

I think I went on a bit of a tangent there with the charge and blink upgrades at the end but you get my point about their effect. Tweaking the warpgate and T1 warpgate units will leave protoss either too weak early on or too strong in the late game and it cannot and should not be readily balanced. A weak early game will cause most protoss to either lose any sort of hope of surviving past 15 minutes or be so far behind that the struggle to catch back up will be extremely difficult. I hope no one miscontrues this as balance whine as my issue is not with the balance of the game or any of the races, it is with how the main staple of the protoss army is designed.

On September 20 2011 03:08 double620 wrote:



I agree with u guys. Maps do play a big role there. But I disagree that gsl is doing a bad jobs on using those maps. Look, if gsl does not use those maps that favored zergs, then we might already have 30 terrans in code s this season. Image if those maps are not used and nestea, coca and other zergs need to play on maps that favored terrans, they should be out of code s right now. If gsl did not chage the terminus, Mc would lose 2-0 today. Gsl is trying hard and it is not gsl's fault.

On September 20 2011 01:48 Heavenly wrote:


Oh shit, IdrA and Destiny said it? They're like, the best ZvPers in the world aren't they?

You want MC to throw down a templar archives after scouting ling/infestor when he barely even had the gas to make enough stalkers to defend against mutas? MC lost solely because of the map. He could NEVER secure a third and it's GSL's fault they made the deciding match be on a map that favors zerg about as much as Steppes of War favored terran. Any zerg who loses on Dual Sight must have decided it'd be funny to make it even by playing with one hand. Look what happened on the map that actually allowed MC to take a safe third at almost the same timing any zerg could take his. It was never even close.

If people think there isn't some retardation going on in this game, ask yourself what protoss in the world ever looks like he could actually beat Losira or Nestea or even Cocoa. Now ask yourself how many mediocre terrans can take games off them.