On April 06 2011 14:26 slyboogie wrote: Idra on SotG is fantastic! When he gets into Zerg imbalance and Tyler and Day just laugh at him, you can tell he's so angry but doesn't want to blow up on these guys. So funny!! Grack!!
Indeed. I think he definitely knows what he's talking about too. It saddens me that people don't acknowledge that EVERY single top level zerg (literally, every single one) has been complaining about zerg being very weak for a very very long time. As much as I love them. just laughing it away like they did on sotg made me kind of sad.
On the other hand, we should respect what Day9 was getting at. SC2 is so young and there is so much unexplored emergent gameplay, that balance talks can become very...wonky. Zerg may very well be underpowered (they certainly do seem to be,) but we just aren't 100% sure yet.
The problem with this line of thinking is that it leads pretty quickly to "Nestea, IdrA, Ret, Fruitdealer, Morrow, Dimaga, and every other top-level Zerg is too stupid to figure out a reliable strategy, all empirical evidence suggests Zerg are lacking, but we're sure everything is fine". There are limited options in SC2, it's not like new units are invented.
The game is broken as hell, and IdrA explained it very well. Too fragile early, too little punch middle, pitiful late game options. If Day9 thinks you can just magically coat an entire stalker colossus ball in fungal 6 times in a row, with no infestors dying to thermal lance (again, somehow) then I'd love to see those replays. But yeah, just get 18 infestors out by the eight minute mark and it'll be great *snark*.
I love Day9, but not even entertaining a balance discussion is really a "holier-than-thou" stance meant to make him look smart. So everything is balanced, like old Void Rays, Reaper Speed, and 1 supply roaches?
On April 06 2011 15:04 henreiman wrote: Didn't catch the SotG. What were Idra's arguments re: Z underpowered? But I can understand day9's point - Idra wasn't going to be dissuaded, and Z can be very powerful. It just got buffed, so let's at least see how patch 1.3 plays out...
But that's enough balance discussion. Anyone know what college Idra went to? Did he get a degree or drop out?
He never went to college, but I'm pretty sure he got a scholarship to study theoretical physics and he had to turn it down when he decided to go to Korea for SC1.
Pity, he's obviously very smart and well spoken. IMO he should get a college degree now that he's back in America, do something like qxc is doing [tourneys in USA, GSL over summer]. SC2 can only last you so long, and the world could use a few more great engineers or professors or mathematicians.
I have heard/read multiple times that he apparantly still has access to that scholarship whenever he wants. the quote was something like
"He has a full ride whenever he wants it"
Doesn't sound right but I don't know much about American education
On April 06 2011 15:04 henreiman wrote: Didn't catch the SotG. What were Idra's arguments re: Z underpowered? But I can understand day9's point - Idra wasn't going to be dissuaded, and Z can be very powerful. It just got buffed, so let's at least see how patch 1.3 plays out...
But that's enough balance discussion. Anyone know what college Idra went to? Did he get a degree or drop out?
He never went to college, but I'm pretty sure he got a scholarship to study theoretical physics and he had to turn it down when he decided to go to Korea for SC1.
Pity, he's obviously very smart and well spoken. IMO he should get a college degree now that he's back in America, do something like qxc is doing [tourneys in USA, GSL over summer]. SC2 can only last you so long, and the world could use a few more great engineers or professors or mathematicians.
I have heard/read multiple times that he apparantly still has access to that scholarship whenever he wants. the quote was something like
"He has a full ride whenever he wants it"
Doesn't sound right but I don't know much about American education
I mean obviously I don't have any personal know-how, but if you're admitted to a certain University you have the option to delay admission (with the school's permission) for a specific reason. So if they somehow agreed professor SC was good enough, he could still have a full ride there. Also, you can always apply for a college education with a high school degree...so if he had good enough Senior year grades + scores + good at essay writing (and SC is a cool experience to write about I guess) he could definitely have a potential full ride waiting
On April 06 2011 14:26 slyboogie wrote: Idra on SotG is fantastic! When he gets into Zerg imbalance and Tyler and Day just laugh at him, you can tell he's so angry but doesn't want to blow up on these guys. So funny!! Grack!!
Indeed. I think he definitely knows what he's talking about too. It saddens me that people don't acknowledge that EVERY single top level zerg (literally, every single one) has been complaining about zerg being very weak for a very very long time. As much as I love them. just laughing it away like they did on sotg made me kind of sad.
On the other hand, we should respect what Day9 was getting at. SC2 is so young and there is so much unexplored emergent gameplay, that balance talks can become very...wonky. Zerg may very well be underpowered (they certainly do seem to be,) but we just aren't 100% sure yet.
The problem with this line of thinking is that it leads pretty quickly to "Nestea, IdrA, Ret, Fruitdealer, Morrow, Dimaga, and every other top-level Zerg is too stupid to figure out a reliable strategy, all empirical evidence suggests Zerg are lacking, but we're sure everything is fine". There are limited options in SC2, it's not like new units are invented.
The game is broken as hell, and IdrA explained it very well. Too fragile early, too little punch middle, pitiful late game options. If Day9 thinks you can just magically coat an entire stalker colossus ball in fungal 6 times in a row, with no infestors dying to thermal lance (again, somehow) then I'd love to see those replays. But yeah, just get 18 infestors out by the eight minute mark and it'll be great *snark*.
I love Day9, but not even entertaining a balance discussion is really a "holier-than-thou" stance meant to make him look smart. So everything is balanced, like old Void Rays, Reaper Speed, and 1 supply roaches?
NOOOOOO. I'm not saying that at all. Those are some of the most talented players in the world. I'm not going to comment on the Day9 part of your post and I don't think we should keep this balance talk up too long. Look, players develop over time, even when the Rax did not require a supply depot, top level Zergs were already figuring out how to deal with it with strong Queen control and pool first build orders. MMM was met with more dynamic creep spread and ling/bling/muta. Zergs research burrow much faster when they suspect a 4 gate.
This is stuff that happens over a month, maybe 2. You can say that the Voidray/Colossus ball is too strong and it certainly appears that way, I saw Idra's game 1 against Cruncher in the TSL3. I thought to myself, "What is he supposed to do against that?" It's up to the great ones to figure it out. I didn't follow it too closely, but from what I understand, in SC:BW, great players like Boxer, savior, iloveoov and Bisu thoroughly altered the game - through emergent gameplay, discovering something in the metagame - either through ingenuity or sheer technique. Give it time...or maybe it really is just imbalanced. Dunno, I don't play Zerg.
Freaking Hydra/Spine Crawler push on stream right now.
It's clear that Idra's reputation as an 'uncreative' player is totally wrong. I think he just wanted his bread-and-butter super-super refined with really good mechanics before changing it up with styles.
On April 06 2011 14:26 slyboogie wrote: Idra on SotG is fantastic! When he gets into Zerg imbalance and Tyler and Day just laugh at him, you can tell he's so angry but doesn't want to blow up on these guys. So funny!! Grack!!
Indeed. I think he definitely knows what he's talking about too. It saddens me that people don't acknowledge that EVERY single top level zerg (literally, every single one) has been complaining about zerg being very weak for a very very long time. As much as I love them. just laughing it away like they did on sotg made me kind of sad.
On the other hand, we should respect what Day9 was getting at. SC2 is so young and there is so much unexplored emergent gameplay, that balance talks can become very...wonky. Zerg may very well be underpowered (they certainly do seem to be,) but we just aren't 100% sure yet.
The problem with this line of thinking is that it leads pretty quickly to "Nestea, IdrA, Ret, Fruitdealer, Morrow, Dimaga, and every other top-level Zerg is too stupid to figure out a reliable strategy, all empirical evidence suggests Zerg are lacking, but we're sure everything is fine". There are limited options in SC2, it's not like new units are invented.
The game is broken as hell, and IdrA explained it very well. Too fragile early, too little punch middle, pitiful late game options. If Day9 thinks you can just magically coat an entire stalker colossus ball in fungal 6 times in a row, with no infestors dying to thermal lance (again, somehow) then I'd love to see those replays. But yeah, just get 18 infestors out by the eight minute mark and it'll be great *snark*.
I love Day9, but not even entertaining a balance discussion is really a "holier-than-thou" stance meant to make him look smart. So everything is balanced, like old Void Rays, Reaper Speed, and 1 supply roaches?
NOOOOOO. I'm not saying that at all. Those are some of the most talented players in the world. I'm not going to comment on the Day9 part of your post and I don't think we should keep this balance talk up too long. Look, players develop over time, even when the Rax did not require a supply depot, top level Zergs were already figuring out how to deal with it with strong Queen control and pool first build orders. MMM was met with more dynamic creep spread and ling/bling/muta. Zergs research burrow much faster when they suspect a 4 gate.
This is stuff that happens over a month, maybe 2. You can say that the Voidray/Colossus ball is too strong and it certainly appears that way, I saw Idra's game 1 against Cruncher in the TSL3. I thought to myself, "What is he supposed to do against that?" It's up to the great ones to figure it out. I didn't follow it too closely, but from what I understand, in SC:BW, great players like Boxer, savior, iloveoov and Bisu thoroughly altered the game - through emergent gameplay, discovering something in the metagame - either through ingenuity or sheer technique. Give it time...or maybe it really is just imbalanced. Dunno, I don't play Zerg.
I have to agree with Sly on 2 things:
First, the game is new, and while IdrA made great arguments for zerg, things may get better in as little as a few months. If they don't, tournament results should speak for themselves. Patches happen, strategies change, which brings me to the second thing.
Stop the balance talk. I got sick of it during the TSL/Cruncher drama, I don't want to sift through 10 pages of it again.
On April 06 2011 14:26 slyboogie wrote: Idra on SotG is fantastic! When he gets into Zerg imbalance and Tyler and Day just laugh at him, you can tell he's so angry but doesn't want to blow up on these guys. So funny!! Grack!!
Indeed. I think he definitely knows what he's talking about too. It saddens me that people don't acknowledge that EVERY single top level zerg (literally, every single one) has been complaining about zerg being very weak for a very very long time. As much as I love them. just laughing it away like they did on sotg made me kind of sad.
On the other hand, we should respect what Day9 was getting at. SC2 is so young and there is so much unexplored emergent gameplay, that balance talks can become very...wonky. Zerg may very well be underpowered (they certainly do seem to be,) but we just aren't 100% sure yet.
The problem with this line of thinking is that it leads pretty quickly to "Nestea, IdrA, Ret, Fruitdealer, Morrow, Dimaga, and every other top-level Zerg is too stupid to figure out a reliable strategy, all empirical evidence suggests Zerg are lacking, but we're sure everything is fine". There are limited options in SC2, it's not like new units are invented.
The game is broken as hell, and IdrA explained it very well. Too fragile early, too little punch middle, pitiful late game options. If Day9 thinks you can just magically coat an entire stalker colossus ball in fungal 6 times in a row, with no infestors dying to thermal lance (again, somehow) then I'd love to see those replays. But yeah, just get 18 infestors out by the eight minute mark and it'll be great *snark*.
I love Day9, but not even entertaining a balance discussion is really a "holier-than-thou" stance meant to make him look smart. So everything is balanced, like old Void Rays, Reaper Speed, and 1 supply roaches?
NOOOOOO. I'm not saying that at all. Those are some of the most talented players in the world. I'm not going to comment on the Day9 part of your post and I don't think we should keep this balance talk up too long. Look, players develop over time, even when the Rax did not require a supply depot, top level Zergs were already figuring out how to deal with it with strong Queen control and pool first build orders. MMM was met with more dynamic creep spread and ling/bling/muta. Zergs research burrow much faster when they suspect a 4 gate.
This is stuff that happens over a month, maybe 2. You can say that the Voidray/Colossus ball is too strong and it certainly appears that way, I saw Idra's game 1 against Cruncher in the TSL3. I thought to myself, "What is he supposed to do against that?" It's up to the great ones to figure it out. I didn't follow it too closely, but from what I understand, in SC:BW, great players like Boxer, savior, iloveoov and Bisu thoroughly altered the game - through emergent gameplay, discovering something in the metagame - either through ingenuity or sheer technique. Give it time...or maybe it really is just imbalanced. Dunno, I don't play Zerg.
I have to agree with Sly on 2 things:
First, the game is new, and while IdrA made great arguments for zerg, things may get better in as little as a few months. If they don't, tournament results should speak for themselves. Patches happen, strategies change, which brings me to the second thing.
Stop the balance talk. I got sick of it during the TSL/Cruncher drama, I don't want to sift through 10 pages of it again.
I don't get it, zergs have been saying ZvP is the hardset MU since beta phase 2, it's not like this whole ZvP is bullshit angle has only popped up now. The reason people are so angry is because Blizzard has really done nothing to address key problems but instead fluff around with stuff that is extraneous compared to scouting/hydra/colossus. Blizzard is regularly slow on the uptake and people are just tired of having to sit through months of imbalance because blizzard is too scared to believe what people have been complaining about since beta.
"The game is new still" is not a good excuse when players are losing tens of thousands of dollars a year off of strats that are nerfed a month later. (reapers, fruits ultralisks)
On April 06 2011 14:26 slyboogie wrote: Idra on SotG is fantastic! When he gets into Zerg imbalance and Tyler and Day just laugh at him, you can tell he's so angry but doesn't want to blow up on these guys. So funny!! Grack!!
Indeed. I think he definitely knows what he's talking about too. It saddens me that people don't acknowledge that EVERY single top level zerg (literally, every single one) has been complaining about zerg being very weak for a very very long time. As much as I love them. just laughing it away like they did on sotg made me kind of sad.
On the other hand, we should respect what Day9 was getting at. SC2 is so young and there is so much unexplored emergent gameplay, that balance talks can become very...wonky. Zerg may very well be underpowered (they certainly do seem to be,) but we just aren't 100% sure yet.
The problem with this line of thinking is that it leads pretty quickly to "Nestea, IdrA, Ret, Fruitdealer, Morrow, Dimaga, and every other top-level Zerg is too stupid to figure out a reliable strategy, all empirical evidence suggests Zerg are lacking, but we're sure everything is fine". There are limited options in SC2, it's not like new units are invented.
The game is broken as hell, and IdrA explained it very well. Too fragile early, too little punch middle, pitiful late game options. If Day9 thinks you can just magically coat an entire stalker colossus ball in fungal 6 times in a row, with no infestors dying to thermal lance (again, somehow) then I'd love to see those replays. But yeah, just get 18 infestors out by the eight minute mark and it'll be great *snark*.
I love Day9, but not even entertaining a balance discussion is really a "holier-than-thou" stance meant to make him look smart. So everything is balanced, like old Void Rays, Reaper Speed, and 1 supply roaches?
NOOOOOO. I'm not saying that at all. Those are some of the most talented players in the world. I'm not going to comment on the Day9 part of your post and I don't think we should keep this balance talk up too long. Look, players develop over time, even when the Rax did not require a supply depot, top level Zergs were already figuring out how to deal with it with strong Queen control and pool first build orders. MMM was met with more dynamic creep spread and ling/bling/muta. Zergs research burrow much faster when they suspect a 4 gate.
This is stuff that happens over a month, maybe 2. You can say that the Voidray/Colossus ball is too strong and it certainly appears that way, I saw Idra's game 1 against Cruncher in the TSL3. I thought to myself, "What is he supposed to do against that?" It's up to the great ones to figure it out. I didn't follow it too closely, but from what I understand, in SC:BW, great players like Boxer, savior, iloveoov and Bisu thoroughly altered the game - through emergent gameplay, discovering something in the metagame - either through ingenuity or sheer technique. Give it time...or maybe it really is just imbalanced. Dunno, I don't play Zerg.
I just really have no patience for the whole "nobody's figured it out yet" argument. I'm not trying to sound hostile, but when every single top Z says the race sucks a fat one, you have to at least pay some attention, and Day9's flippant dismissal of the IDEA that something could be imbalanced irks me.
On April 06 2011 15:57 Mailing wrote: "The game is new still" is not a good excuse when players are losing tens of thousands of dollars a year off of strats that are nerfed a month later. (reapers, fruits ultralisks)
I guess there is no way around it though =(
What do you mean, 'fruits ultralisks?'
When did they lose him 'tens of thousands of dollars'? o.O
On April 06 2011 15:57 Mailing wrote: "The game is new still" is not a good excuse when players are losing tens of thousands of dollars a year off of strats that are nerfed a month later. (reapers, fruits ultralisks)
I guess there is no way around it though =(
What do you mean, 'fruits ultralisks?'
When did they lose him 'tens of thousands of dollars'? o.O
2 minutes, 10 seconds.
Fruits entire GSL win was based off that one battle essentially
Now be alarmed this is a Huk interview but some idra footage can be detected in this :p
at 4:04 idras face is briefly shown :p, 5:26 showing his reaction when winning against HuK, he does show emotions and he goes on to rant about idra for a little bit after that as well :p
On April 06 2011 15:57 Mailing wrote: "The game is new still" is not a good excuse when players are losing tens of thousands of dollars a year off of strats that are nerfed a month later. (reapers, fruits ultralisks)
I guess there is no way around it though =(
What do you mean, 'fruits ultralisks?'
When did they lose him 'tens of thousands of dollars'? o.O
On April 06 2011 15:57 Mailing wrote: "The game is new still" is not a good excuse when players are losing tens of thousands of dollars a year off of strats that are nerfed a month later. (reapers, fruits ultralisks)
I guess there is no way around it though =(
What do you mean, 'fruits ultralisks?'
When did they lose him 'tens of thousands of dollars'? o.O
Fruits entire GSL win was based off that one battle essentially
I'm 99% sure that battle wasn't affected by the patch. Didn't it only affect buildings?
And even if it did - fruit would have won that battle anyway. TOP picked the absolute worst place to engage. The patch didn't win fruit that game.
reason why they say that the patch won him the game is because Ultra's were bugged in that patch that their splash radius was affected by unit size, splash comes out of the Target 360 degrees instead of from the ultralisks actual "swing". in that specific battle all ultra's splashed on all off the thors killing them really fast. he would have lost that battle with maybe 1 thor dead without the bug.
On April 06 2011 15:57 Mailing wrote: "The game is new still" is not a good excuse when players are losing tens of thousands of dollars a year off of strats that are nerfed a month later. (reapers, fruits ultralisks)
I guess there is no way around it though =(
What do you mean, 'fruits ultralisks?'
When did they lose him 'tens of thousands of dollars'? o.O
Fruits entire GSL win was based off that one battle essentially
I'm 99% sure that battle wasn't affected by the patch. Didn't it only affect buildings?
And even if it did - fruit would have won that battle anyway. TOP picked the absolute worst place to engage. The patch didn't win fruit that game.
At the time an ultra would hit a thor, and splash would hit multiple other thors because of their size. Unfortunately this resulted in a bug where buildings would splash everything around them, including any repairing scvs. Blizzard's subsequent bugfix pretty much neutered the ultras ability to do splash; I haven't tested it lately, but I don't think the ultra's current splash arc even extends beyond a single thor atm, so the current ultralisk would lose the same engagement in the linked video iirc.
Now be alarmed this is a Huk interview but some idra footage can be detected in this :p
at 4:04 idras face is briefly shown :p, 5:26 showing his reaction when winning against HuK, he does show emotions and he goes on to rant about idra for a little bit after that as well :p
haha that was awesome. Although the guy lied to her as he actually said something different not he needs to learn to play . It was on the lines of "he was probably tilted because he can't beat me in a real game" was more like that then learn to play but haha good stuff thanks for the link
EPT
and he goes on to rant about idra for a little bit after that as well :p![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Oh68K.jpg)
