Korean Music Discussion - Page 3158

I know that wasn't the point you were trying to make, but I wasn't trying to refute your point I was making a point of my own. I think you are the one with comprehension issues. Is English your second language by any chance?

B)

Okay I've been lurking around reading this argument back and forth for a while and I feel like I need to jump in.

First of all, 270 million views, although nothing to sneeze at, does not mean that the whole nation likes it. Also, the world is so freaking huge, that saying "pop influences our modern era as opposed to any other style" is a huge generalization to make, and as such is probably incorrect. Also, the term "pop" is a really broad. Pop music is a genre so expansive it encompasses everyone from Susan Boyle to The Turtles to Justin Beiber.

I think your mistaking influence for "national conscious." When something becomes big, it enters a nations collective thought, to the point of when you play a "first word that comes to your head when i say this" game, it's one of the most used words.

For example, I ask someone on the street, "First word in your head when I say President", it will most likely be, in the USA, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, or Barak Obama.

The thing is, music quality will always trump marketing. Yes, Kpop is becoming more and more focused on making Stars, but that means jack squat when the first way you make the uninitiate get interested is through music. And if your music sucks ass, especially in a country as large as the United States, you are not going anywhere. Although several artists have avoided this problem through sex appeal and marketing (think, Justin Bieber), most of the time the quality of the music is what makes people go back to look for it. Especially on the Radio. Radio DJs must choose their songs carefully. A good, popular song will keep people on the station, which leads to more ad revenue. A good song, no matter what the genre, will seep into the national consciousness. A good example of this would be Queen's "We Will Rock You" and "We are the Champions", Michael Jackson's "Thriller," "Beat it", "Billie Jean,", Maroon 5's "She Will be Loved", the Beatles' "Yesterday," "Here Comes the Sun", "Let it Be". Those are timeless songs from various genres (Glam Rock, Pop, Alt. Rock, and...the Beatles) that got there because they are good. Elvis Presley is a good example of this. Who doesn't know at least one song from Elvis Presley? (Btw, Maroon 5 is questionable).

A bad song, if bad enough, will also seep into the national consciousness because of how BAD it is. But then that is usually not a good thing.

The problem with Kpop expanding into Western markets right now is that, in my opinion,and from my observation, it has done neither. It has not sunk in. It's not on the radio. It is not on Television everywhere, you mention it to a random stranger, most of the time they will give you a funny stare.

Perhaps marketing the star is working in Korea. Unfortunately, unless your music is good in the US, it will not take off. The United States, and much of the Western world, has a long history of songs, singers, bands and groups that were organically made. Music is an art form, and for many, the fact that giant megacorporations are making the music is a bit of a turn off.

You want a relevant modern day example? Take Gotye's "Somebody I used to Know." This guy as a total nobody before he made this song. IIRC, he was a indie electronic musician from Australia. Then that song got released, and he just took off like a star. In 2011. It's the middle of 2012 and he is still played on the Radios here, almost like, every hour. Why? Cuz that song is a good song. Although a little repetitive and barebones, the weird loping beat with that tribal ethnic feel behind it is really addicting. And the lyrics are simple enough for most people to remember.

Korean Pop has a long way to go before they even come close competing with Western pop. Don't get delusions of grandeur from Korean documentaries and Kpop newsites/fansites reports about Western success for K-Idols. If they want to compete with Justin Bieber, Nikki Minaj, Lady Gaga, Drake, etc, then they are going to have to make sure that their songs can compete with those artists.

Having more groups is actually BAD for expansion into Western markets because it will just appear as one giant massive marketing wave from Korea. The US already got over it's group obsession back during the NSync/Backstreet Boys days. If you want Kpop to become a success, it's got to prove it, musically.

Edit: Oh fuck me, this thread moves way too fast.

Edit 2: Before Super Bass is used against, me, Super Bass is popular right now and Nicki Minja is also a rising star. But her songs are legitimately popular and pretty good. IMO, Starships is better than Super Bass.

Okay I've been lurking around reading this argument back and forth for a while and I feel like I need to jump in.

First of all, 270 million views, although nothing to sneeze at, does not mean that the whole nation likes it. Also, the world is so freaking huge, that saying "pop influences our modern era as opposed to any other style" is a huge generalization to make, and as such is probably incorrect. Also, the term "pop" is a really broad. Pop music is a genre so expansive it encompasses everyone from Susan Boyle to The Turtles to Justin Beiber.

I think your mistaking influence for "national conscious." When something becomes big, it enters a nations collective thought, to the point of when you play a "first word that comes to your head when i say this" game, it's one of the most used words.

For example, I ask someone on the street, "First word in your head when I say President", it will most likely be, in the USA, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, or Barak Obama.

The thing is, music quality will always trump marketing. Yes, Kpop is becoming more and more focused on making Stars, but that means jack squat when the first way you make the uninitiate get interested is through music. And if your music sucks ass, especially in a country as large as the United States, you are not going anywhere. Although several artists have avoided this problem through sex appeal and marketing (think, Justin Bieber), most of the time the quality of the music is what makes people go back to look for it. Especially on the Radio. Radio DJs must choose their songs carefully. A good, popular song will keep people on the station, which leads to more ad revenue. A good song, no matter what the genre, will seep into the national consciousness. A good example of this would be Queen's "We Will Rock You" and "We are the Champions", Michael Jackson's "Thriller," "Beat it", "Billie Jean,", Maroon 5's "She Will be Loved", the Beatles' "Yesterday," "Here Comes the Sun", "Let it Be". Those are timeless songs from various genres (Glam Rock, Pop, Alt. Rock, and...the Beatles) that got there because they are good. Elvis Presley is a good example of this. Who doesn't know at least one song from Elvis Presley? (Btw, Maroon 5 is questionable).

A bad song, if bad enough, will also seep into the national consciousness because of how BAD it is. But then that is usually not a good thing.

The problem with Kpop expanding into Western markets right now is that, in my opinion,and from my observation, it has done neither. It has not sunk in. It's not on the radio. It is not on Television everywhere, you mention it to a random stranger, most of the time they will give you a funny stare.

Perhaps marketing the star is working in Korea. Unfortunately, unless your music is good in the US, it will not take off. The United States, and much of the Western world, has a long history of songs, singers, bands and groups that were organically made. Music is an art form, and for many, the fact that giant megacorporations are making the music is a bit of a turn off.

You want a relevant modern day example? Take Gotye's "Somebody I used to Know." This guy as a total nobody before he made this song. IIRC, he was a indie electronic musician from Australia. Then that song got released, and he just took off like a star. In 2011. It's the middle of 2012 and he is still played on the Radios here, almost like, every hour. Why? Cuz that song is a good song. Although a little repetitive and barebones, the weird loping beat with that tribal ethnic feel behind it is really addicting. And the lyrics are simple enough for most people to remember.

Korean Pop has a long way to go before they even come close competing with Western pop. Don't get delusions of grandeur from Korean documentaries and Kpop newsites/fansites reports about Western success for K-Idols. If they want to compete with Justin Bieber, Nikki Minaj, Lady Gaga, Drake, etc, then they are going to have to make sure that their songs can compete with those artists.

Having more groups is actually BAD for expansion into Western markets because it will just appear as one giant massive marketing wave from Korea. The US already got over it's group obsession back during the NSync/Backstreet Boys days. If you want Kpop to become a success, it's got to prove it, musically.

Edit: Oh fuck me, this thread moves way too fast.

Edit 2: Before Super Bass is used against, me, Super Bass is popular right now and Nicki Minja is also a rising star. But her songs are legitimately popular and pretty good. IMO, Starships is better than Super Bass.