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On July 12 2012 06:33 DystopiaX wrote: ^dude totally with the tongue out. If you want me to bring up a "kidol selcas of women sucking and or licking food objects" picspam, I can, but it's totally unnecessary cause it happens all the time.
On July 12 2012 06:28 firehand101 wrote:
On July 12 2012 06:25 DystopiaX wrote: I have. I don't give a fuck what he thinks, I still like the music more than I like artificially crafted personalities.
And I'm saying there is absolutely no problem with that!
But I just want you to know Korean Pop is built for the artists first, thats all
Sure. Monetarily, you craft an artist's image because that's what's gonna sell your albums, get your endorsement deals, whatever. But you focus on music quality because regardless of what you think a lot of Koreans just don't give much of a fuck about kpop, just like most americans don't give a fuck about western pop.
So yes, having a clean image is what's making you the money, but saying music takes a backseat isn't really accurate at all.
And what do you mean by most dont.....last time i checked 'Super Bass' had almost 270 million views.....
No one genre of music is going to capture a whole nation, but wouldn't you say that pop influences the largest portion in our modern era as opposed to any other style?
And, really if you paid attention to the video and not had such a negative attitude, you would know music quality comes second, because to survive they have to market the star
goddammit do you read my posts at all?
What part of "To get the money they craft personalities" does not sound like "to survive the have to market the star" to you? Really? Come on.
And I cannot emphasize this enough STOP FUCKING USING YOUTUBE VIEWS IN YOUR ARGUMENT. THEY DON'T MEAN SHIT.
270 million views DOES NOT mean 270 million people. It means significantly less than that, actually, because some people watch the videos again and again. Ever go to a kpop artists' mv? You know what the top comment usually is? No? It's "HEY GUYS KEEP THIS VIDEO ON LOOP SO SUPER JUNIOR OPPAS WILL BE NUMBER 1 IN VIEWS ON YOUTUBE! LIKE IF YOU AGREE <3 <3 <3"
And I wouldn't say most influential, unless most influential means that your music is always kind of in the background but only fully appreciated by a tiny group of people.
On July 12 2012 06:39 Sableyeah wrote: I saw Racegirls + Show Spoiler +
So OP
<3 you. For the record, Ryu Ji Hye is my favorite.
On July 12 2012 06:32 andyrau wrote: you need to stop trying to justify this as if it isn't an unhealthy delusional infatuation bordering on obsession.
Woah, when did I ever try and justify anything ? I'm fully aware of what this is and so is every person that frequents this thread lol.
oh I'm not sure maybe something about the 100+ words you wrote attempting to twist it into 'love' sounded a bit like justification to me
Bro your not going to change TuElite, don't try; if you don't like his posts skip them. Plenty of us do enjoy his posts.
On July 12 2012 05:53 firehand101 wrote: Okay guys.......okay okay.....
I need to ask a question....does anyone follow kpop for the quality of music (alone) ?
Because throughout the whole world, there is definitely better sounding music. Kpop is about the stars that create the music and their personalities....that is the main focus of Kpop.
That is how I view it anyway, is there anyone here for the music alone, regardless of group?
I enjoy the music more then anything, the idols are just a bonus.
Okay, that is a bit wierd....i think i might start a poll
Poll: What is the main reason you follow Kpop?
Quality of Music (42)
70%
Artists and their personalities (17)
28%
The Community aspect of Kpop (1)
2%
60 total votes
Your vote: What is the main reason you follow Kpop?
(Vote): Quality of Music (Vote): Artists and their personalities (Vote): The Community aspect of Kpop
On July 12 2012 06:32 andyrau wrote: you need to stop trying to justify this as if it isn't an unhealthy delusional infatuation bordering on obsession.
Woah, when did I ever try and justify anything ? I'm fully aware of what this is and so is every person that frequents this thread lol.
oh I'm not sure maybe something about the 100+ words you wrote attempting to twist it into 'love' sounded a bit like justification to me
Bro your not going to change TuElite, don't try; if you don't like his posts skip them. Plenty of us do enjoy his posts.
both firehand and you seem to have reading comprehension issues
not sure if this was posted yet, but new December.
On July 12 2012 06:33 DystopiaX wrote: ^dude totally with the tongue out. If you want me to bring up a "kidol selcas of women sucking and or licking food objects" picspam, I can, but it's totally unnecessary cause it happens all the time.
On July 12 2012 06:28 firehand101 wrote:
On July 12 2012 06:25 DystopiaX wrote: I have. I don't give a fuck what he thinks, I still like the music more than I like artificially crafted personalities.
And I'm saying there is absolutely no problem with that!
But I just want you to know Korean Pop is built for the artists first, thats all
Sure. Monetarily, you craft an artist's image because that's what's gonna sell your albums, get your endorsement deals, whatever. But you focus on music quality because regardless of what you think a lot of Koreans just don't give much of a fuck about kpop, just like most americans don't give a fuck about western pop.
So yes, having a clean image is what's making you the money, but saying music takes a backseat isn't really accurate at all.
And what do you mean by most dont.....last time i checked 'Super Bass' had almost 270 million views.....
No one genre of music is going to capture a whole nation, but wouldn't you say that pop influences the largest portion in our modern era as opposed to any other style?
And, really if you paid attention to the video and not had such a negative attitude, you would know music quality comes second, because to survive they have to market the star
What part of "To get the money they craft personalities" does not sound like "to survive the have to market the star" to you? Really? Come on.
And I cannot emphasize this enough STOP FUCKING USING YOUTUBE VIEWS IN YOUR ARGUMENT. THEY DON'T MEAN SHIT.
270 million views DOES NOT mean 270 million people. It means significantly less than that, actually, because some people watch the videos again and again. Ever go to a kpop artists' mv? You know what the top comment usually is? No? It's "HEY GUYS KEEP THIS VIDEO ON LOOP SO SUPER JUNIOR OPPAS WILL BE NUMBER 1 IN VIEWS ON YOUTUBE! LIKE IF YOU AGREE <3 <3 <3"
And I wouldn't say most influential, unless most influential means that your music is always kind of in the background but only fully appreciated by a tiny group of people.
On July 12 2012 06:32 andyrau wrote: you need to stop trying to justify this as if it isn't an unhealthy delusional infatuation bordering on obsession.
Woah, when did I ever try and justify anything ? I'm fully aware of what this is and so is every person that frequents this thread lol.
oh I'm not sure maybe something about the 100+ words you wrote attempting to twist it into 'love' sounded a bit like justification to me
Bro your not going to change TuElite, don't try; if you don't like his posts skip them. Plenty of us do enjoy his posts.
both firehand and you seem to have reading comprehension issues
not sure if this was posted yet, but new December. + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO3_bYNBSOM
dem clavicles
I know that wasn't the point you were trying to make, but I wasn't trying to refute your point I was making a point of my own. I think you are the one with comprehension issues. Is English your second language by any chance?
On July 12 2012 06:33 DystopiaX wrote: ^dude totally with the tongue out. If you want me to bring up a "kidol selcas of women sucking and or licking food objects" picspam, I can, but it's totally unnecessary cause it happens all the time.
On July 12 2012 06:28 firehand101 wrote:
On July 12 2012 06:25 DystopiaX wrote: I have. I don't give a fuck what he thinks, I still like the music more than I like artificially crafted personalities.
And I'm saying there is absolutely no problem with that!
But I just want you to know Korean Pop is built for the artists first, thats all
Sure. Monetarily, you craft an artist's image because that's what's gonna sell your albums, get your endorsement deals, whatever. But you focus on music quality because regardless of what you think a lot of Koreans just don't give much of a fuck about kpop, just like most americans don't give a fuck about western pop.
So yes, having a clean image is what's making you the money, but saying music takes a backseat isn't really accurate at all.
And what do you mean by most dont.....last time i checked 'Super Bass' had almost 270 million views.....
No one genre of music is going to capture a whole nation, but wouldn't you say that pop influences the largest portion in our modern era as opposed to any other style?
And, really if you paid attention to the video and not had such a negative attitude, you would know music quality comes second, because to survive they have to market the star
What part of "To get the money they craft personalities" does not sound like "to survive the have to market the star" to you? Really? Come on.
And I cannot emphasize this enough STOP FUCKING USING YOUTUBE VIEWS IN YOUR ARGUMENT. THEY DON'T MEAN SHIT.
270 million views DOES NOT mean 270 million people. It means significantly less than that, actually, because some people watch the videos again and again. Ever go to a kpop artists' mv? You know what the top comment usually is? No? It's "HEY GUYS KEEP THIS VIDEO ON LOOP SO SUPER JUNIOR OPPAS WILL BE NUMBER 1 IN VIEWS ON YOUTUBE! LIKE IF YOU AGREE <3 <3 <3"
And I wouldn't say most influential, unless most influential means that your music is always kind of in the background but only fully appreciated by a tiny group of people.
On July 12 2012 06:39 Sableyeah wrote: I saw Racegirls + Show Spoiler +
So OP
<3 you. For the record, Ryu Ji Hye is my favorite.
On July 12 2012 06:33 DystopiaX wrote: ^dude totally with the tongue out. If you want me to bring up a "kidol selcas of women sucking and or licking food objects" picspam, I can, but it's totally unnecessary cause it happens all the time.
On July 12 2012 06:28 firehand101 wrote:
On July 12 2012 06:25 DystopiaX wrote: I have. I don't give a fuck what he thinks, I still like the music more than I like artificially crafted personalities.
And I'm saying there is absolutely no problem with that!
But I just want you to know Korean Pop is built for the artists first, thats all
Sure. Monetarily, you craft an artist's image because that's what's gonna sell your albums, get your endorsement deals, whatever. But you focus on music quality because regardless of what you think a lot of Koreans just don't give much of a fuck about kpop, just like most americans don't give a fuck about western pop.
So yes, having a clean image is what's making you the money, but saying music takes a backseat isn't really accurate at all.
And what do you mean by most dont.....last time i checked 'Super Bass' had almost 270 million views.....
No one genre of music is going to capture a whole nation, but wouldn't you say that pop influences the largest portion in our modern era as opposed to any other style?
And, really if you paid attention to the video and not had such a negative attitude, you would know music quality comes second, because to survive they have to market the star
goddammit do you read my posts at all?
What part of "To get the money they craft personalities" does not sound like "to survive the have to market the star" to you? Really? Come on.
And I cannot emphasize this enough STOP FUCKING USING YOUTUBE VIEWS IN YOUR ARGUMENT. THEY DON'T MEAN SHIT.
270 million views DOES NOT mean 270 million people. It means significantly less than that, actually, because some people watch the videos again and again. Ever go to a kpop artists' mv? You know what the top comment usually is? No? It's "HEY GUYS KEEP THIS VIDEO ON LOOP SO SUPER JUNIOR OPPAS WILL BE NUMBER 1 IN VIEWS ON YOUTUBE! LIKE IF YOU AGREE <3 <3 <3"
And I wouldn't say most influential, unless most influential means that your music is always kind of in the background but only fully appreciated by a tiny group of people.
Just gonna butt in real quick, but that's not even how views are counted on Youtube (coming from a Youtuber). They count the number of times the video was opened, or something like that, not sure how to say it exactly. But pressing the replay button after it's done playing won't give it another view. They have another way of counting that, which the video's poster can see in his analytics section, where they show how many times every second (or so) of it was viewed (as opposed to how many times the video was opened). Allows to see how your audience varies throughout the video, where people don't like etc (in theory anyways). And it's shown in percentage of views. And that percentage can go over 100%, exactly because some people will replay the video. It will count 2 views for the same person coming back to the video later though, like after he closed the window. It's not accurate, as you say, but not exactly as bad as you say, either.
I imagine music videos must have crazy percentages of actual views vs the views counter, with all those people replaying again and again.
On July 12 2012 06:33 DystopiaX wrote: ^dude totally with the tongue out. If you want me to bring up a "kidol selcas of women sucking and or licking food objects" picspam, I can, but it's totally unnecessary cause it happens all the time.
On July 12 2012 06:28 firehand101 wrote:
On July 12 2012 06:25 DystopiaX wrote: I have. I don't give a fuck what he thinks, I still like the music more than I like artificially crafted personalities.
And I'm saying there is absolutely no problem with that!
But I just want you to know Korean Pop is built for the artists first, thats all
Sure. Monetarily, you craft an artist's image because that's what's gonna sell your albums, get your endorsement deals, whatever. But you focus on music quality because regardless of what you think a lot of Koreans just don't give much of a fuck about kpop, just like most americans don't give a fuck about western pop.
So yes, having a clean image is what's making you the money, but saying music takes a backseat isn't really accurate at all.
And what do you mean by most dont.....last time i checked 'Super Bass' had almost 270 million views.....
No one genre of music is going to capture a whole nation, but wouldn't you say that pop influences the largest portion in our modern era as opposed to any other style?
And, really if you paid attention to the video and not had such a negative attitude, you would know music quality comes second, because to survive they have to market the star
What part of "To get the money they craft personalities" does not sound like "to survive the have to market the star" to you? Really? Come on.
And I cannot emphasize this enough STOP FUCKING USING YOUTUBE VIEWS IN YOUR ARGUMENT. THEY DON'T MEAN SHIT.
270 million views DOES NOT mean 270 million people. It means significantly less than that, actually, because some people watch the videos again and again. Ever go to a kpop artists' mv? You know what the top comment usually is? No? It's "HEY GUYS KEEP THIS VIDEO ON LOOP SO SUPER JUNIOR OPPAS WILL BE NUMBER 1 IN VIEWS ON YOUTUBE! LIKE IF YOU AGREE <3 <3 <3"
And I wouldn't say most influential, unless most influential means that your music is always kind of in the background but only fully appreciated by a tiny group of people.
On July 12 2012 06:39 Sableyeah wrote: I saw Racegirls + Show Spoiler +
So OP
<3 you. For the record, Ryu Ji Hye is my favorite.
For me it's definitly the music. Although visuals, personalities and all that stuff does play a big role, it wouldn't be enough to interest me in listening to music I wouldn't have any interest in purely based on the music itself. For instance: I start listening to a group because I like their music. I start liking the group. Then I get into their personalities and start liking them even more. But if then their quality of music goes downhill I wouldn't listen to it just because I've come to like their personalities/visuals. For me it's just something that helps you become a fanboy and thus pushes you further than just consuming their music. For example: following them actively(live perfs, variety shows etc.), buying albums/collectibles and so forth. A good example would be that the first album I've bought was a kpop album. Even though I've been quite a music fanatic for awhile.
On July 12 2012 06:32 andyrau wrote: you need to stop trying to justify this as if it isn't an unhealthy delusional infatuation bordering on obsession.
Woah, when did I ever try and justify anything ? I'm fully aware of what this is and so is every person that frequents this thread lol.
oh I'm not sure maybe something about the 100+ words you wrote attempting to twist it into 'love' sounded a bit like justification to me
Ok, I understand how you might see it that way but I wasn't trying to justify anything, merely attempting to explore the question and all of it's context and depth.
Like I said, I now this is not normal borderline unhealthy but I don't really care, I'm just trying to have some fun in my madness at this point.
Since we are still on the subject, for me Kpop got my attention from how catchy it is but, it was something that I didn't like at first mostly because I didn't let myself like it. I generally like the music aspect of it but the girls are nice. Although i'm not really too fanboyish over them except IU and to a degree Minah (still sane fanboyism). I like how Korean sounds and somethings in MVs or shows just make me laugh so much so it is just really enjoyable.
On July 12 2012 06:33 DystopiaX wrote: ^dude totally with the tongue out. If you want me to bring up a "kidol selcas of women sucking and or licking food objects" picspam, I can, but it's totally unnecessary cause it happens all the time.
On July 12 2012 06:28 firehand101 wrote:
On July 12 2012 06:25 DystopiaX wrote: I have. I don't give a fuck what he thinks, I still like the music more than I like artificially crafted personalities.
And I'm saying there is absolutely no problem with that!
But I just want you to know Korean Pop is built for the artists first, thats all
Sure. Monetarily, you craft an artist's image because that's what's gonna sell your albums, get your endorsement deals, whatever. But you focus on music quality because regardless of what you think a lot of Koreans just don't give much of a fuck about kpop, just like most americans don't give a fuck about western pop.
So yes, having a clean image is what's making you the money, but saying music takes a backseat isn't really accurate at all.
And what do you mean by most dont.....last time i checked 'Super Bass' had almost 270 million views.....
No one genre of music is going to capture a whole nation, but wouldn't you say that pop influences the largest portion in our modern era as opposed to any other style?
And, really if you paid attention to the video and not had such a negative attitude, you would know music quality comes second, because to survive they have to market the star
Okay I've been lurking around reading this argument back and forth for a while and I feel like I need to jump in.
First of all, 270 million views, although nothing to sneeze at, does not mean that the whole nation likes it. Also, the world is so freaking huge, that saying "pop influences our modern era as opposed to any other style" is a huge generalization to make, and as such is probably incorrect. Also, the term "pop" is a really broad. Pop music is a genre so expansive it encompasses everyone from Susan Boyle to The Turtles to Justin Beiber.
I think your mistaking influence for "national conscious." When something becomes big, it enters a nations collective thought, to the point of when you play a "first word that comes to your head when i say this" game, it's one of the most used words.
For example, I ask someone on the street, "First word in your head when I say President", it will most likely be, in the USA, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, or Barak Obama.
The thing is, music quality will always trump marketing. Yes, Kpop is becoming more and more focused on making Stars, but that means jack squat when the first way you make the uninitiate get interested is through music. And if your music sucks ass, especially in a country as large as the United States, you are not going anywhere. Although several artists have avoided this problem through sex appeal and marketing (think, Justin Bieber), most of the time the quality of the music is what makes people go back to look for it. Especially on the Radio. Radio DJs must choose their songs carefully. A good, popular song will keep people on the station, which leads to more ad revenue. A good song, no matter what the genre, will seep into the national consciousness. A good example of this would be Queen's "We Will Rock You" and "We are the Champions", Michael Jackson's "Thriller," "Beat it", "Billie Jean,", Maroon 5's "She Will be Loved", the Beatles' "Yesterday," "Here Comes the Sun", "Let it Be". Those are timeless songs from various genres (Glam Rock, Pop, Alt. Rock, and...the Beatles) that got there because they are good. Elvis Presley is a good example of this. Who doesn't know at least one song from Elvis Presley? (Btw, Maroon 5 is questionable).
A bad song, if bad enough, will also seep into the national consciousness because of how BAD it is. But then that is usually not a good thing.
The problem with Kpop expanding into Western markets right now is that, in my opinion,and from my observation, it has done neither. It has not sunk in. It's not on the radio. It is not on Television everywhere, you mention it to a random stranger, most of the time they will give you a funny stare.
Perhaps marketing the star is working in Korea. Unfortunately, unless your music is good in the US, it will not take off. The United States, and much of the Western world, has a long history of songs, singers, bands and groups that were organically made. Music is an art form, and for many, the fact that giant megacorporations are making the music is a bit of a turn off.
You want a relevant modern day example? Take Gotye's "Somebody I used to Know." This guy as a total nobody before he made this song. IIRC, he was a indie electronic musician from Australia. Then that song got released, and he just took off like a star. In 2011. It's the middle of 2012 and he is still played on the Radios here, almost like, every hour. Why? Cuz that song is a good song. Although a little repetitive and barebones, the weird loping beat with that tribal ethnic feel behind it is really addicting. And the lyrics are simple enough for most people to remember.
Korean Pop has a long way to go before they even come close competing with Western pop. Don't get delusions of grandeur from Korean documentaries and Kpop newsites/fansites reports about Western success for K-Idols. If they want to compete with Justin Bieber, Nikki Minaj, Lady Gaga, Drake, etc, then they are going to have to make sure that their songs can compete with those artists.
Having more groups is actually BAD for expansion into Western markets because it will just appear as one giant massive marketing wave from Korea. The US already got over it's group obsession back during the NSync/Backstreet Boys days. If you want Kpop to become a success, it's got to prove it, musically.
Edit: Oh fuck me, this thread moves way too fast.
Edit 2: Before Super Bass is used against, me, Super Bass is popular right now and Nicki Minja is also a rising star. But her songs are legitimately popular and pretty good. IMO, Starships is better than Super Bass.
On July 12 2012 06:33 DystopiaX wrote: ^dude totally with the tongue out. If you want me to bring up a "kidol selcas of women sucking and or licking food objects" picspam, I can, but it's totally unnecessary cause it happens all the time.
On July 12 2012 06:28 firehand101 wrote:
On July 12 2012 06:25 DystopiaX wrote: I have. I don't give a fuck what he thinks, I still like the music more than I like artificially crafted personalities.
And I'm saying there is absolutely no problem with that!
But I just want you to know Korean Pop is built for the artists first, thats all
Sure. Monetarily, you craft an artist's image because that's what's gonna sell your albums, get your endorsement deals, whatever. But you focus on music quality because regardless of what you think a lot of Koreans just don't give much of a fuck about kpop, just like most americans don't give a fuck about western pop.
So yes, having a clean image is what's making you the money, but saying music takes a backseat isn't really accurate at all.
And what do you mean by most dont.....last time i checked 'Super Bass' had almost 270 million views.....
No one genre of music is going to capture a whole nation, but wouldn't you say that pop influences the largest portion in our modern era as opposed to any other style?
And, really if you paid attention to the video and not had such a negative attitude, you would know music quality comes second, because to survive they have to market the star
What part of "To get the money they craft personalities" does not sound like "to survive the have to market the star" to you? Really? Come on.
And I cannot emphasize this enough STOP FUCKING USING YOUTUBE VIEWS IN YOUR ARGUMENT. THEY DON'T MEAN SHIT.
270 million views DOES NOT mean 270 million people. It means significantly less than that, actually, because some people watch the videos again and again. Ever go to a kpop artists' mv? You know what the top comment usually is? No? It's "HEY GUYS KEEP THIS VIDEO ON LOOP SO SUPER JUNIOR OPPAS WILL BE NUMBER 1 IN VIEWS ON YOUTUBE! LIKE IF YOU AGREE <3 <3 <3"
And I wouldn't say most influential, unless most influential means that your music is always kind of in the background but only fully appreciated by a tiny group of people.
On July 12 2012 06:39 Sableyeah wrote: I saw Racegirls + Show Spoiler +
So OP
<3 you. For the record, Ryu Ji Hye is my favorite.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.minus.com/ibnvEPEsNZH38b.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.minus.com/iEEEGtnWyHB8n.gif)
![[image loading]](http://lh3.ggpht.com/_t7gpKU7SGCw/SoGYiLq9kAI/AAAAAAAACcs/rmSI4mAW2yA/Ru%20Ji%20Hye_Booblicious.gif)
