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If you come in here looking for "anime recommendations" then please refer to this chart before posting: Anime Recommendations (as of may 2014). We also have an IRC channel called #tladt where we all hang out. The channel is on Rizon, not QuakeNet! Feel free to check it out. TLADT discord is Discord.gg

For currently airing anime, please see Anichart.net
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8676 Posts
November 11 2015 09:10 GMT
#107301
On November 11 2015 10:06 Sentenal wrote:
UBW was visual trickery, NGNL was visual trickery for people with bad taste, and SAO looked really nice, but IDK how it looks any better than OPM.


Pretty much this.
Emnjay808
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States10665 Posts
November 11 2015 09:55 GMT
#107302
Danmachi felt high budget to me.

Also since we're nearing the end of the year, Danmachi prolly best anime of the year imo.
Skol
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8676 Posts
November 11 2015 10:03 GMT
#107303
On November 11 2015 18:55 Emnjay808 wrote:
Danmachi felt high budget to me.

Also since we're nearing the end of the year, Danmachi prolly best anime of the year imo.


To me, Owari no Seraph felt really high budget. Also anime of the century.
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 10:56:16
November 11 2015 10:54 GMT
#107304
It is more about all A class studio/project have more or less the same 'good/high' budget in compared to many of the average budget anime series, while you need to keep in mind that the average salary for each job/role in the industry is pretty much standardised. The key thing is the project management apsect ie many studio blew their budget too hard for the first few episodes or first half of the season (mainly caused by the use of CGI), you will very likely to see that in 20+ episodes series (i honestly dont keep this budget related stuff in mind so the biggest example i remember was Macross F rofl). I think Bahamut is an example too, iirc they started out great, midway the visuals dropped, because they wanted to focus the rest of their resources into the last few episodes, and it was merely a 12 episodes series.

Series like UBW which could maintain high visual quality throughout the series: 1) obviously it is an A class project itself 2) the project management is well done on using their resources 3) also alot of talented people in the team, i remember from some interview on NHK they hired more 'cheaper paid' fresh grads or something to work on the project, more hands = better in the end of day of drawing/optimizing the visuals which leads to 4) I think UBW project is more of a team assembled just to make UBW (as in there are some permanent staffs but majority of the team consists of contractors/cheap fresh grads). But even so you still see some distorted facials of the characters in UBW from time to time lol.

OPM wise i dont think it should be classified as high budget because you can see they try to save money on many scenes as much as possible, iirc the first 4 episodes look good but nothing impressive (visual wise) and then it was the 5th episode who blew people mind, which is the sign of good project management (because team which holds 'high' budget would usually blow alot money on the first few episodes). I mean it is from Madhouse in the end of day (wont be very high budget but ok-ish).

And NGNL didn't impress me visually lol, it is just their artstyle? (also from madhouse too). Same to SAO.

I wish i can know more about the anime industry, where is an 'industry insider' when we need one.
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 11:10:27
November 11 2015 11:10 GMT
#107305
I don't particularly like SAO but the fight scenes were done quite nicely if I remember correctly. The thing about OPM is that I feel like the story suits it. For example when I see Genos or other villains/heroes fight it always seems quite visually impressive yet when it returns to the comedic style of Saitama just living his daily life or him striding nonchalantely to a villain the ''bland'' animation style fits very well to show the contrast and adds to the comedic value.

OPM is just very well done(or atleast I feel like it) because it shows the ridicilousness over the top and contrasts it with the overpowerd and relatively simple protagonist who doesn't need incredible abilities, he just needs 1 punch and a trip to the supermarket to get 40% off eggs. OPM doesn't need to be consistently visually impressive to deliver its story(it would prolly even detract from it).
WriterXiao8~~
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8676 Posts
November 11 2015 11:19 GMT
#107306
I think too many people are confusing art style with animation. People always start comparing everything with UBW when the topic is animation quality in a series, yet, UBW isn't really that astounding animation-wise. This is MAL all over again. To me, OPM is far more impressive than UBW animation-wise. Art design-wise it's an entirely different matter. I also completely disagree that OPM only delivered with animation in ep5. It pretty much hold it's high standard in all of the episodes. Maybe only ep6 had a few moments that seemed slightly lacking compared to the previous episodes.
Sterlymobile
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1009 Posts
November 11 2015 11:51 GMT
#107307
Whats the difference?
"You sons of a silly person"
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
November 11 2015 12:16 GMT
#107308
On November 11 2015 20:51 Sterlymobile wrote:
Whats the difference?


Animation is how stuff moves where is art is how it looks. Nisekoi and Monogatari utilizes dazzling art to make it look pretty while not really bothering with much animation. This is how they manage to get it looking so pretty so easily. The best example of animation vs artstyle to me is always Sword of a Stranger vs Kara no Kyoukai. Kara no Kyoukai looks visually stunning and you don't notice how tacky the animation can get because of this unless you watch it after watching an anime that focuses on animation over artstyle like Sword of a Stranger.

As a side note animation is possibly the hardest part of graphics design work. That's without even talking about the choreography required to utilize good animation.
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8676 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 12:27:35
November 11 2015 12:26 GMT
#107309
On November 11 2015 20:51 Sterlymobile wrote:
Whats the difference?


Well, in short animation is about the smoothness and detail of the motion, amount, quality and detail of keyframes, amount of actual animation in general compared to still frames and physical and anatomical "correctness" of motion. Correctness as in terms of what you are trying to achieve. It doesn't have to be natural, like overbending in OPM, but it has to look fitting and has to be consistent.
Art style on the other hand is about the design, colors, shader-usage, detail and general quality of drawings, including characters, backrounds etc.

As for UBW: They used a lot of CGI support for the special effects. It looks quite amazing but isn't exactly impressive from an animation-perspective. I guess this is the reason why Sent called it visual trickery.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
November 11 2015 12:47 GMT
#107310
These things aren't just limited to anime or animation though but also pretty important pieces of live action. You'll find well done live action often utilizes colours very carefully either though camera filters or just general use throughout the film. Movies with heavy browns/greys etc will give off the perspective of a far bleaker pensive atmosphere. This you could say all falls under "art/artstyle".

Choreography is something that really shines in action sequences both in animation and live action. Unfortunately it's also one of the most overlooked and underutilized portion of these sequences. If you're a marvel fan I'm sure you felt the difference between Captain America 2 and Avengers 2. One had fluid action sequences where you could easily tell what was going on while the other was a mess of shaky cam. Anime is like that too. Lots of "cool" action sequences in TV anime are often rather poorly choreographed/animated where you can hardly tell what's going on in the sequence. I can't even think of a well done TV anime aside from FMA:B. Again just go watch Sword of a Stranger :D
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 13:20:26
November 11 2015 13:15 GMT
#107311
Man, get a load of those plebs on the last page, who said they don't care about the animation part of anime. The whole point of it being anime is that it is animated. If its animated like crap, then already half the work is crap.

If you guys want to see actual high budget anime, watch some more Gundams. Did you know that, when adjusted for inflation, Gundam SEED Destiny is on of the highest budget anime ever made? And that didn't even look good compared to its peers at the time. Or now, consider Gundam IBO, its almost a certainty that that is one of the highest budget animes of this year. And while parts of it do show, there have been so much derpy parts in it. OPM looks miles ahead of it.
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8676 Posts
November 11 2015 13:24 GMT
#107312
On November 11 2015 21:47 Numy wrote:
These things aren't just limited to anime or animation though but also pretty important pieces of live action. You'll find well done live action often utilizes colours very carefully either though camera filters or just general use throughout the film. Movies with heavy browns/greys etc will give off the perspective of a far bleaker pensive atmosphere. This you could say all falls under "art/artstyle".

Choreography is something that really shines in action sequences both in animation and live action. Unfortunately it's also one of the most overlooked and underutilized portion of these sequences. If you're a marvel fan I'm sure you felt the difference between Captain America 2 and Avengers 2. One had fluid action sequences where you could easily tell what was going on while the other was a mess of shaky cam. Anime is like that too. Lots of "cool" action sequences in TV anime are often rather poorly choreographed/animated where you can hardly tell what's going on in the sequence. I can't even think of a well done TV anime aside from FMA:B. Again just go watch Sword of a Stranger :D


Canaan imho had some really good action choreography from what I remember.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
November 11 2015 14:03 GMT
#107313
It's been too long since I watched it. I remember it being visually beautiful but that's just standard P.A Works. If you want another high budget production that isn't seasonal check out Gundam Unicorn. Man that's one beautifully done anime. Pity I don't really watch enough Gundam to appreciate it.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
November 11 2015 15:08 GMT
#107314
Kanata no Kyokai gets a lot of hate(some of it deserving I guess but it wasn't THAT BAD) but its fighting scenes were top notch, Kyoani Mahou Shoujo when.

Kyoani always has great animation/artwork.
WriterXiao8~~
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 15:18:29
November 11 2015 15:18 GMT
#107315
On November 11 2015 23:03 Numy wrote:
It's been too long since I watched it. I remember it being visually beautiful but that's just standard P.A Works. If you want another high budget production that isn't seasonal check out Gundam Unicorn. Man that's one beautifully done anime. Pity I don't really watch enough Gundam to appreciate it.

Unicorn does look great. Its an example of a Gundam where the high production values actually show. Its an OVA though, so I don't really group them together with TV anime. If you have a high budget OVA or movie that doesn't look great, then something terribly wrong is happening.
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 15:58:57
November 11 2015 15:57 GMT
#107316
On November 11 2015 19:54 BurningSera wrote:
It is more about all A class studio/project have more or less the same 'good/high' budget in compared to many of the average budget anime series, while you need to keep in mind that the average salary for each job/role in the industry is pretty much standardised. The key thing is the project management apsect ie many studio blew their budget too hard for the first few episodes or first half of the season (mainly caused by the use of CGI), you will very likely to see that in 20+ episodes series (i honestly dont keep this budget related stuff in mind so the biggest example i remember was Macross F rofl). I think Bahamut is an example too, iirc they started out great, midway the visuals dropped, because they wanted to focus the rest of their resources into the last few episodes, and it was merely a 12 episodes series.

Series like UBW which could maintain high visual quality throughout the series: 1) obviously it is an A class project itself 2) the project management is well done on using their resources 3) also alot of talented people in the team, i remember from some interview on NHK they hired more 'cheaper paid' fresh grads or something to work on the project, more hands = better in the end of day of drawing/optimizing the visuals which leads to 4) I think UBW project is more of a team assembled just to make UBW (as in there are some permanent staffs but majority of the team consists of contractors/cheap fresh grads). But even so you still see some distorted facials of the characters in UBW from time to time lol.

OPM wise i dont think it should be classified as high budget because you can see they try to save money on many scenes as much as possible, iirc the first 4 episodes look good but nothing impressive (visual wise) and then it was the 5th episode who blew people mind, which is the sign of good project management (because team which holds 'high' budget would usually blow alot money on the first few episodes). I mean it is from Madhouse in the end of day (wont be very high budget but ok-ish).

[...]


That's pretty much what I was trying to get at yesterday with Souma and that first paragraph that made no sense without explanation.
I feel like there's a difference in looking awesome (which certainly holds true for OPM) and looking good/polished all throughout the episode, which I just don't see with, like you said, lots of inbetween scenes that look the way they do.

On November 12 2015 00:08 Kipsate wrote:
Kanata no Kyokai gets a lot of hate(some of it deserving I guess but it wasn't THAT BAD) but its fighting scenes were top notch, Kyoani Mahou Shoujo when.

Kyoani always has great animation/artwork.

ya, I said this thousand of times on irc while it aired as well. The show was really shitty but damn that sword and the fights were impressive in Kyoukai no Kanata
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 16:40:59
November 11 2015 16:21 GMT
#107317
On November 12 2015 00:18 Sentenal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2015 23:03 Numy wrote:
It's been too long since I watched it. I remember it being visually beautiful but that's just standard P.A Works. If you want another high budget production that isn't seasonal check out Gundam Unicorn. Man that's one beautifully done anime. Pity I don't really watch enough Gundam to appreciate it.

Unicorn does look great. Its an example of a Gundam where the high production values actually show. Its an OVA though, so I don't really group them together with TV anime. If you have a high budget OVA or movie that doesn't look great, then something terribly wrong is happening.


Unicorn is so good that my eyes cant get used to the sudden dropped/reduced quality/budget on the The Origin that came out lately lol. I think we had some posts on that.

Yes, Gundam is notoriously expensive. 1/3 of their budget probably blow so high on their soundtracks/OP/EP etc, Sunrise/Bandai has always given me this impression of them have a good amount of anime people work for them as permanent staffs, while they are split into groups to work on different projects, for big projects they would put more people on it etc. Like Try gave me the impression that it was a secondary project.

Just looked up Sunrise page, cant believe that SEED is older than 10 years now wow
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-11 16:31:24
November 11 2015 16:30 GMT
#107318
is there such a thing as gundam shows/movies targeted at fujoshis? I feel like the audiances don't really fit but if one were to successfully craft such a thing it might be the best selling thing in all history.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
November 11 2015 16:40 GMT
#107319
of course lol the naked chat room with guy x guy all these times to boyband gundam Wing to the latest naked piloting gundam

look up char x amuro, i bet there are tonnes of yaoi stuffs on them

is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
XenOmega
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2822 Posts
November 11 2015 17:13 GMT
#107320
Fallout 4 + SC LOTV?

RIP anime.

I'll be back.
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