Anime Discussion Thread - Page 4877

Archer IS shirou

The show couldn't make it any more obvious outside of outright saying it
Suddenly there's two of a pendant that should only exist one of, which shirou ended up being in possession of as a result of Rin saving him, yet archer had a duplicate to give to Rin
Archer is well, an archer and shirou used to do archery and was good at it
Shirou has the exact same magic as archer and archer even knew how to help shirou with the pains
Shirou's prefered weapons of choice are also Archer's prefered weapons of choice
Shirou prefered archer's style of fighting and felt that it fit him better than the style saber was teaching him
Rin talks about "i knew it, you two are too similar" a few times because she has figured it out, especially after the pendant reveal
From the flashbacks regarding archer we know that he used to hold the same ideal that shirou currently holds and that he hates the ideals shirou currently holds (He told shirou to drown in his own ideals and constantly tries to kill him)
We also know that as a result of his ideals he ended up becoming a guardian which is an existance he hates
We also know archer knew saber at some point, of course he did, because he summoned her in the current grail war
And hell in the latest episode we hear archer mutter the exact same thing shirou does to activate his magic "Trace on"

I'm sure i forgot some of the many other hints they give you, but they really make it glaringly obvious especially so after Rin herself figured it out

They're honestly also fairly similar in regards to how they look if we ignore the skin-colour and hair-colour

So where is the note that deletes the option of them being bloodrelated instead of being the same person?

So where is the note that deletes the option of them being bloodrelated instead of being the same person?

Shirou wasn't born into a mage household, he was adopted after being saved, so obviously it couldn't be anyone from his previous family.
We also know that Rin has figured out who Archer is, so it has to be someone she knows of, this means it can't be anyone from the future. And this also eliminates it being someone from shirou's past as we know him and Rin don't really know eachother well previous to the events of FSN.
There are other smaller things too like Archer knowing saber, how would someone blood related to him know saber? There's clearly nobody currently involved in the war that is blood related to shirou.

And, again the pendant, the pendant that shirou carries around because he was saved by Rin, the pendant that there should only be one of. For him to be someone blood related to shirou he'd have to be someone from the future, but again, we know it's someone that Rin currently knows of.

Edit: Also why would archer be so dedicated about killing shirou if it wasn't to attempt to free himself from being a counter-guardian which we know is an existance he hates being in. I mean everything archer does is about dedicating himself to kill shirou at this point.

Shirou wasn't born into a mage household, he was adopted after being saved, so obviously it couldn't be anyone from his previous family.
We also know that Rin has figured out who Archer is, so it has to be someone she knows of, this means it can't be anyone from the future. And this also eliminates it being someone from shirou's past as we know him and Rin don't really know eachother well previous to the events of FSN.
There are other smaller things too like Archer knowing saber, how would someone blood related to him know saber? There's clearly nobody currently involved in the war that is blood related to shirou.

And, again the pendant, the pendant that shirou carries around because he was saved by Rin, the pendant that there should only be one of. For him to be someone blood related to shirou he'd have to be someone from the future, but again, we know it's someone that Rin currently knows of.

Edit: Also why would archer be so dedicated about killing shirou if it wasn't to attempt to free himself from being a counter-guardian which we know is an existance he hates being in. I mean everything archer does is about dedicating himself to kill shirou at this point.

Alright, it seems like it lot dropped off of my head over time. It's the usual problem: I can't really connect details from episodes that I watched weeks ago.

I didn't remember that Shirou's parental line was made clear. I also thought the pendant was Rin's. When I watched the first season I found it to be really irritating when she so surprised about Shirou having a pendant. In the first episode it looked like she brought it and left it with him...
I didn't remember that Rin figured out who Archer is. o.O
The whole Saber-Archer thing: I took that as Archer knowing Saber from the past not from the present - like they met up before. The whole thing about his fuzzy memories - which he faked apparently - backed that up as well.

And I don't understand this whole counter-guardian stuff. It was never explained or mentioned at all. How should someone assume a random mechanic in a fictional world before it's ever mentioned? Especially in one whose boundaries are barely even explained at all. It's like everything is possible at this point in time so it could be anything...

Alright, it seems like it lot dropped off of my head over time. It's the usual problem: I can't really connect details from episodes that I watched weeks ago.

I didn't remember that Shirou's parental line was made clear. I also thought the pendant was Rin's. When I watched the first season I found it to be really irritating when she so surprised about Shirou having a pendant. In the first episode it looked like she brought it and left it with him...
I didn't remember that Rin figured out who Archer is. o.O
The whole Saber-Archer thing: I took that as Archer knowing Saber from the past not from the present - like they met up before. The whole thing about his fuzzy memories - which he faked apparently - backed that up as well.

And I don't understand this whole counter-guardian stuff. It was never explained or mentioned at all. How should someone assume a random mechanic in a fictional world before it's ever mentioned? Especially in one whose boundaries are barely even explained at all. It's like everything is possible at this point in time so it could be anything...

Pretty sure they explained that he was in a mass disaster situation and was rescued and then adopted by his father. The pendant was how they were trying to tip off the audience because where there should only be 1 is now 2. Rin even bold faced told Shirou and the audience that there is "magically" 2 pendants when there should only be one like 1-2 episodes ago. She brought the pendant and used to to save shirou's life when he got stabbed with by lancer, she then clearly left it next to Shirou. Cue next scene of Archer giving her the pendant and Shirou waking up to find a pendant at the same time. He does know Saber from the past, from when he participated in the grail war as a young Shirou (Some say he is the product of the Fate route). The counter-guardian stuff is irrelevant at this point.

So where is the note that deletes the option of them being bloodrelated instead of being the same person?

So where is the note that deletes the option of them being bloodrelated instead of being the same person?

Shirou wasn't born into a mage household, he was adopted after being saved, so obviously it couldn't be anyone from his previous family.
We also know that Rin has figured out who Archer is, so it has to be someone she knows of, this means it can't be anyone from the future. And this also eliminates it being someone from shirou's past as we know him and Rin don't really know eachother well previous to the events of FSN.
There are other smaller things too like Archer knowing saber, how would someone blood related to him know saber? There's clearly nobody currently involved in the war that is blood related to shirou.

And, again the pendant, the pendant that shirou carries around because he was saved by Rin, the pendant that there should only be one of. For him to be someone blood related to shirou he'd have to be someone from the future, but again, we know it's someone that Rin currently knows of.

Edit: Also why would archer be so dedicated about killing shirou if it wasn't to attempt to free himself from being a counter-guardian which we know is an existance he hates being in. I mean everything archer does is about dedicating himself to kill shirou at this point.

Shirou wasn't born into a mage household, he was adopted after being saved, so obviously it couldn't be anyone from his previous family.
We also know that Rin has figured out who Archer is, so it has to be someone she knows of, this means it can't be anyone from the future. And this also eliminates it being someone from shirou's past as we know him and Rin don't really know eachother well previous to the events of FSN.
There are other smaller things too like Archer knowing saber, how would someone blood related to him know saber? There's clearly nobody currently involved in the war that is blood related to shirou.

And, again the pendant, the pendant that shirou carries around because he was saved by Rin, the pendant that there should only be one of. For him to be someone blood related to shirou he'd have to be someone from the future, but again, we know it's someone that Rin currently knows of.

Edit: Also why would archer be so dedicated about killing shirou if it wasn't to attempt to free himself from being a counter-guardian which we know is an existance he hates being in. I mean everything archer does is about dedicating himself to kill shirou at this point.

Alright, it seems like it lot dropped off of my head over time. It's the usual problem: I can't really connect details from episodes that I watched weeks ago.

I didn't remember that Shirou's parental line was made clear. I also thought the pendant was Rin's. When I watched the first season I found it to be really irritating when she so surprised about Shirou having a pendant. In the first episode it looked like she brought it and left it with him...
I didn't remember that Rin figured out who Archer is. o.O
The whole Saber-Archer thing: I took that as Archer knowing Saber from the past not from the present - like they met up before. The whole thing about his fuzzy memories - which he faked apparently - backed that up as well.

And I don't understand this whole counter-guardian stuff. It was never explained or mentioned at all. How should someone assume a random mechanic in a fictional world before it's ever mentioned? Especially in one whose boundaries are barely even explained at all. It's like everything is possible at this point in time so it could be anything...

Pretty sure they explained that he was in a mass disaster situation and was rescued and then adopted by his father. The pendant was how they were trying to tip off the audience because where there should only be 1 is now 2. Rin even bold faced told Shirou and the audience that there is "magically" 2 pendants when there should only be one like 1-2 episodes ago. She brought the pendant and used to to save shirou's life when he got stabbed with by lancer, she then clearly left it next to Shirou. Cue next scene of Archer giving her the pendant and Shirou waking up to find a pendant at the same time. He does know Saber from the past, from when he participated in the grail war as a young Shirou (Some say he is the product of the Fate route). The counter-guardian stuff is irrelevant at this point.

Alright, it seems like it lot dropped off of my head over time. It's the usual problem: I can't really connect details from episodes that I watched weeks ago.

I didn't remember that Shirou's parental line was made clear. I also thought the pendant was Rin's. When I watched the first season I found it to be really irritating when she so surprised about Shirou having a pendant. In the first episode it looked like she brought it and left it with him...
I didn't remember that Rin figured out who Archer is. o.O
The whole Saber-Archer thing: I took that as Archer knowing Saber from the past not from the present - like they met up before. The whole thing about his fuzzy memories - which he faked apparently - backed that up as well.

And I don't understand this whole counter-guardian stuff. It was never explained or mentioned at all. How should someone assume a random mechanic in a fictional world before it's ever mentioned? Especially in one whose boundaries are barely even explained at all. It's like everything is possible at this point in time so it could be anything...

Alright, it seems like it lot dropped off of my head over time. It's the usual problem: I can't really connect details from episodes that I watched weeks ago.

I didn't remember that Shirou's parental line was made clear. I also thought the pendant was Rin's. When I watched the first season I found it to be really irritating when she so surprised about Shirou having a pendant. In the first episode it looked like she brought it and left it with him...
I didn't remember that Rin figured out who Archer is. o.O
The whole Saber-Archer thing: I took that as Archer knowing Saber from the past not from the present - like they met up before. The whole thing about his fuzzy memories - which he faked apparently - backed that up as well.

And I don't understand this whole counter-guardian stuff. It was never explained or mentioned at all. How should someone assume a random mechanic in a fictional world before it's ever mentioned? Especially in one whose boundaries are barely even explained at all. It's like everything is possible at this point in time so it could be anything...

In regards to the bolded, counter-guardians have most definitely been explained and mentioned.
From episode 1 of the second cour:

This is with CRs subs, they decided to translate the guardians as protectors but it's the same thing really.
And as you can see, this is why archer wants to kill shirou, to maybe, just maybe free himself from this loop of misery.

Also, how can you not know about shirou's 'parental line'? It's been a huge part of the story that he was orphaned and then adopted, that entire event is what makes shirou the character that he is.

And the pendant IS rin's pendant, a memento from her father, however, after saving shirou's life the pendant ends up in shirou's hands and when archer gives back rin a pendant it's not the current shirou got but the one shirou would end up carrying with him even many years from now.
The reason why rin was surprised is because, there should only be one of this pendant but currently there are two.

Archer isn't the product of the fate route, from a Q&A with someone asking about if the HF route is where shirou becomes archer:

clearly participated in the grail war back when he was a kid.

clearly participated in the grail war back when he was a kid.

Archer can basically be the product of any one of the routes, but the chance of the shirou we're currently following becoming archer is almost zero.
You have to imagine that if the events of the UBW route played out 10k times then maybe one of those times shirou ends up as archer.

The answer i posted in my previous post is from Nasu, so it's basically 'word of god' in regards to fate i suppose

ORT > Crimson Moon > Primate Murder > Zelretch > Gilgamesh > Arcueid ≥ Black Sakura > Berserker = Black Saber ≥ Saber > Lancer > Rider = Archer > Caster ≥ Aoko = Nrvnqsr = Kouma = Barthomeloi ≥ Kojirou > Ciel ≥ Great Teacher Hassan (GTH) ≥ "Ryougi Shiki" > V Sion = AC Satsuki = R.Shiki = Bazett ≥ Akiha = Fujino = Araya ≥ Touko = Alba ≥ 18th Roa > > SHIKI = Kiri = Reinforced Kuzuki ≥ Sion = UBW Shirou > ha Avenger > Nanaya = Rin = Kotomine = Zouken = Leysritt > Satsuki ≥ Rio = Avalon Shirou > ha Sakura > Salaryman Dead = Ilya = Corpse ≥ Azaka ≥ Misayo > Kirie = Zombie ≥ Dragon Tooth Warrior ≥ Fuji-nee > Shinji > Fake Shiki