EPTAnime Discussion Thread - Page 281
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If you come in here looking for "anime recommendations" then please refer to this chart before posting: Anime Recommendations (as of may 2014). We also have an IRC channel called #tladt where we all hang out. The channel is on Rizon, not QuakeNet! Feel free to check it out. TLADT discord is Discord.gg For currently airing anime, please see Anichart.net | ||
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triangle
United States3803 Posts
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Ecael
United States6703 Posts
Visual novels definitely characterize this progression, but I am more for the idea that it is a result of the trend and not a major contributor. | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
On April 29 2010 04:00 triangle wrote: Speaking of madhouse, is anyone watching Rainbow? It looks interesting, might pick it up. It's almost a bit too... manly for me, on the edge of becoming humorous. But at the same time it's a very soft and heartbreaking show thus far. I'm not too sure how the story will progress yet since there's only 3 episodes as of yet, but I'm quite sure my intuition is correct. You notice the quality of the show from the dark and captivating mood even just a few minutes into it. Definitely one of the better shows airing this season. And Ecael, it was a sarcastic post, I know VN's aren't exactly 'responsible' for the way things turned out, but it was where you could easily see the characterization first since the personalities are usually very exaggerated and created to fit different people. Oh and in response to your question, mainly the hentai/eroge stuff. I'm not into keyshit and similar VNs. It's probably even clearer in those type of games. I'm not too sure, but I think this whole thing was popularized with To Heart in 97. You'll probably try to correct me now though because as you said, I'm not a super nerd on japanese visual novels and games. | ||
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Ecael
United States6703 Posts
More about the personality thing, I don't really see a way to get around it. There is no benefit to attempt that. Even if people try to suggest that the manga and anime industry has became a part of the Japanese culture proper, the popular perception of it will always keep it at a certain level. Just as people try to bash comparisons of video games to art, the idea of elevating the industry to a level beyond commercial value is frowned upon. In such an industry, just being able to have things your way and sell is an amazing feat. As with most things, once you have the financial ability to do whatever you want, experimentations become more commonplace, but until then, what puts food on your plate is by far more important. I'll settle for bitching about how characters suck, but pointing at the phenomenon and saying it is a bad thing? Meh, it is a necessary evil, that's all to this. EDIT - I am not into the old stuff either actually  But yeah, I think ToHeart, DC and Tokimeki are the big players for that. However, we have to remember, for every couple of ToHeart we get things like Kizuato and Shizuku. A cheap price. | ||
Spazer
Canada8028 Posts
On April 28 2010 21:02 ZoW wrote: ZnT should have stopped at season 2 with the last 5 minutes cut out + Show Spoiler + That whole "lol i died oh wait I'm alive again" really ruined it  Don't mind Shana that much, I thought the 2nd season was quite good. Though maybe I'm just hoping they bring Sebrac out again so we can see him rape an entire city. + Show Spoiler [ZnT] + Same thing happened in the light novels though. Not like they can just go and retcon everything... I'm pretty excited for Shana s3 even though I wasn't too thrilled with how s2 was handled. If this season covers what I think it does, it should be pretty exciting. K-ON OP and ED are out, if anyone cares. | ||
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Southlight
United States11763 Posts
For every Ubel Blatt there're 500 shounen jump manga and 5000 shoujo romance manga. There're plenty of stories with deep characters that break the mold of archetypes. But they're not mainstream, because they don't sell. It was an argument that I had with several friends a few seasons ago regarding K-On!! which is actually a series I despise. I despised it because it was the exact same thing as Lucky Star and Minamike, and it was a pitiful use of music because it didn't actually touch on music (Lucky Star on the other hand dealt heavily with modern culture via Konata, which made it more like a 4-panel version of Genshiken at times, however when you look at popularity which was more popular? The cutesy 4-panel shallow Lucky Star completely and utterly trumped Genshiken, despite the latter featuring a less archetypical, and often-times deeper look into modern otaku/fujoshi culture). And you know what the prevailing reply to me with regards to K-On!! was? "It's cute, and funny, and even if it's the same thing as everything else I like having more of what I like." GG. Edit: I guess what it comes down to is, a lot of people hate Gundam series because most of Gundam is based on marketing models and stuff. That's fine, and for the most part I agree with them. But even amongst the Gundam series there're fascinating little tidbits, like 08th and Stargazer. But isn't it funny, they all get trampled by the mainstream junk. Why? You tell me. And if that's going to be the case, it really shouldn't be surprising when tropes and archetypes are recycled over and over again. If they can do it for robots, they sure as hell can do it for characters, especially if it's a series that's going to sell itself on its girls. Unfortunately that's what the light novel genre has devolved into now (IMO), and so it's a process that continues. And because anime has stepped heavily into drawing off of light novels, because "female attraction sells," you get more and more of the same damn thing. And you can bet your horses this sort of thing isn't limited to just japanese culture, too. Check out the New York Times Bestseller list; the top 10 is almost always flooded with murder mystery rubbish that try to imitate the success of Dan Brown etc. Once in a blue moon you'll find something not related to murder there. Speak nothing of the film industry, that which is filled with blood, sex, and explosions. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On April 29 2010 05:23 Southlight wrote: For every Muramasa there're three Fate/Stay Nights and 1,000 shallow harem VNs. For every Ubel Blatt there're 500 shounen jump manga and 5000 shoujo romance manga. There're plenty of stories with deep characters that break the mold of archetypes. But they're not mainstream, because they don't sell. It was an argument that I had with several friends a few seasons ago regarding K-On!! which is actually a series I despise. I despised it because it was the exact same thing as Lucky Star and Minamike, and it was a pitiful use of music because it didn't actually touch on music (Lucky Star on the other hand dealt heavily with modern culture via Konata, which made it more like a 4-panel version of Genshiken at times, however when you look at popularity which was more popular? The cutesy 4-panel shallow Lucky Star completely and utterly trumped Genshiken, despite the latter featuring a less archetypical, and often-times deeper look into modern otaku/fujoshi culture). And you know what the prevailing reply to me with regards to K-On!! was? "It's cute, and funny, and even if it's the same thing as everything else I like having more of what I like." GG. Edit: I guess what it comes down to is, a lot of people hate Gundam series because most of Gundam is based on marketing models and stuff. That's fine, and for the most part I agree with them. But even amongst the Gundam series there're fascinating little tidbits, like 08th and Stargazer. But isn't it funny, they all get trampled by the mainstream junk. Why? You tell me. And if that's going to be the case, it really shouldn't be surprising when tropes and archetypes are recycled over and over again. If they can do it for robots, they sure as hell can do it for characters, especially if it's a series that's going to sell itself on its girls. Unfortunately that's what the light novel genre has devolved into now (IMO), and so it's a process that continues. And because anime has stepped heavily into drawing off of light novels, because "female attraction sells," you get more and more of the same damn thing. And you can bet your horses this sort of thing isn't limited to just japanese culture, too. Check out the New York Times Bestseller list; the top 10 is almost always flooded with murder mystery rubbish that try to imitate the success of Dan Brown etc. Once in a blue moon you'll find something not related to murder there. Speak nothing of the film industry, that which is filled with blood, sex, and explosions. Actually there was a panel at a con I attended earlier this year on this matter, called current state of anime, then, now and the future. Namely that anime/manga studios don't make a lot of money (or rather as much money as most of you would like to think). With the recent economic decline worldwide as well as the considerable increase in fansubbing/scanlating, there is even more strain on those studios. Now switching gears for a brief second, the best way for these series/franchises to make money is through toys or other products (making quite a bit), there's nothing wrong with that though and people often hate certain franchises for it (think LOLDBZ). This is also partially why studios will re-sample certain aspects/tropes/types/etc. to guarantee (or attempt to) that the show will return something for their investment. That unfortunately is the harsh reality, the studios are mostly struggling right now and are undertaking less and less new works (why gamble on something that might flop?) in favor of going back to the same wells. | ||
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Southlight
United States11763 Posts
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Shade692003
Canada702 Posts
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sidesprang
Norway1033 Posts
Op naruto bleach FMA rourni kenshin or how it was spelled. Trigun Hunter x Hunter I mostly enjoy anime where there is some form of combat, more spesific where the hero becomes stronger and stronger. Like in OP/naruto/bleach etc. Im really not a fan of the japanese humor, Anyone got some suggestions to what my next series can be ?  | ||
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
On April 29 2010 07:38 Shade692003 wrote: Hey guys, I REALLY don't know much about anime, only the mainstream stuff like Naruto, Bleach, One Piece and Death Note. I really loved Death Note, and I was wondering if anyone could recommend me an anime in the same style? A hero who has a unique "power" or "trait" and who slowly becomes a villain because of his own egocentric views. Code Geass. Death Note with Mecha. And it's awesome. | ||
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shreepy
United States121 Posts
My list: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7093/picture1jvq.png) | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On April 28 2010 13:58 Spazer wrote: Wasn't fan reaction for season 3 pretty bad though? Anyway, the only project JC Staff has announced is Shana season 3, so chances are season 4 of ZnT won't be in the queue for a long time. I'd imagine (and hope) that Index season 2 and/or Hayate would also be higher priority. Wait, Shana season 3 was announced? Awesome! I loved Shana. | ||
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Fumi
529 Posts
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
We're currently in the "correction" period of anime. After the big moeblob boom, everyone soon realized that such growth is unsustainable, thus we are in a decline period of anime, since a large part of its growth in the past few years have been largely based on moe shows. To be honest, there's only so much of a target audience that moe shows reach, and I think a lot of animation companies are coming to realize that fact. Although we might complain about the current imbalanced state of anime now, I'd have to say that the recent few seasons is an indication that moe genre shows are tapering off in terms of popularity. I mean the only real moe genre show this season was... K-On? I think that's an indication. And on the issue of profits for animation companies, there are some serious faults with the marketing plans of animation companies. I think that's largely a problem with most studios nowadays, in that they mostly expect their profits to come from DVDs and Blu-Rays. Well, hate to break to them, but the age of DVDs and Blu-Rays are over. Get with the times. | ||
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Spazer
Canada8028 Posts
On April 29 2010 07:46 sidesprang wrote: I mostly enjoy anime where there is some form of combat, more spesific where the hero becomes stronger and stronger. Like in OP/naruto/bleach etc. Im really not a fan of the japanese humor, Anyone got some suggestions to what my next series can be ? Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is the epitome of heroes powering up. You won't be disappointed. @shreepy: You've seen Full Metal Panic but haven't watched the two sequels series? Also, why didn't you just post a link to your list? Anyway, for fantasy, Fate Stay Night was okay. Nanoha was okay as well, but that depends on how tolerant you are of magical girl stuff. The Kara no Kyoukai movies are highly recommended, but be warned that it'll make very little sense at first if you have no prior knowledge of any Type-Moon works. Everything does get cleared up eventually though. Zero no Tsukaima was pretty bad, avoid this one. To Aru Majutsu no Index was good to mediocre. This one's kinda half sci-fi, half magic, so I don't know if that's okay with you.On April 29 2010 08:33 Fumi wrote: Japanese otaku love extreme character archetypes and cute looks. And being able to have all possible archetypes into a harem. With the option of having sex with each of them. And maybe all at the same time as well. And it gets worse every year. Personally, I've never really understood people's fascination with h-scenes. Maybe Nasu's writing has scarred me in that regard. =/ | ||
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Southlight
United States11763 Posts
On April 29 2010 08:56 Mystlord wrote: And on the issue of profits for animation companies, there are some serious faults with the marketing plans of animation companies. I think that's largely a problem with most studios nowadays, in that they mostly expect their profits to come from DVDs and Blu-Rays. Well, hate to break to them, but the age of DVDs and Blu-Rays are over. Get with the times. Actually DVDs and Blu-Rays are how most Japanese people watch anime, atm. The only way they can fix that is to change time-slotting and try to emulate American TV show revenue systems (via ads) but that's beyond just anime studios' ability. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On April 28 2010 17:54 dronebabo wrote: haha awesome. | ||
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
On April 29 2010 08:56 Mystlord wrote: Well here's my take on the problems with the anime industry: We're currently in the "correction" period of anime. After the big moeblob boom, everyone soon realized that such growth is unsustainable, thus we are in a decline period of anime, since a large part of its growth in the past few years have been largely based on moe shows. To be honest, there's only so much of a target audience that moe shows reach, and I think a lot of animation companies are coming to realize that fact. Although we might complain about the current imbalanced state of anime now, I'd have to say that the recent few seasons is an indication that moe genre shows are tapering off in terms of popularity. I mean the only real moe genre show this season was... K-On? I think that's an indication. I agree with you mostly, but is a little hesitant calling out moe boom as the culprit. Terrible harem shows, among others, quickly come to mind. But to what extent has the damage been done? Japan seems to be undergoing their little Victorian era and massive censorship, while anime is churning out things like... Qwaser. It appears that raising demand and injecting new blood in the anime would be very difficult right now, as the otaku culture and the mainstream society grow farther and farther apart. The negative connotation associated with otaku would prevent people other than otaku-converts from entering. I am tempted to attribute the success of evangelion rebirth movies topping the japanese box office due to the lack of negative connotation associated with it (as it is an earlier title). Compared to say, the Haruhi movie that cracked top 10 but couldn't reach top 5. Then of course, my point would be rather moot since EVA has one of the biggest otaku followings. ever. | ||
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Evangelion is another good example of this phenomenon. Everyone who watched the thing in the first place was properly introduced through this phrase: "OMG CRAZY STORY WTF IS GOING ON???" But now you see the characters introduced as "Asuka Tsundere Queen" or "Rei Kuudere Queen", not to mention all the random doujinshis flying about that completely miss the point of the show... The Rebuild series is, from what I can tell, a further perversion of the show, with Gainax, to a certain degree, milking the cash cow for as much as they can. There's just so much meaning lost in translation to the Rebuild series, and from what I hear, the new characters are essentially big farces... But enough of conjecture. I'll need to watch 2.0 myself to see if that's true. Southlight: Yes, DVDs and Blu-Rays do account for probably 70% of the revenue for those animation companies, but those in and of themselves are so ridiculously overpriced that its an unsustainable source of revenue (I would hope). However, I could be wrong considering the crazy demand of the Otaku culture... However, the price of DVDs are so prohibitive to the non-Otakus that the animation companies are missing out on a, I think, big source of revenue. The world is beginning to move beyond DVDs. The animation companies need to get with the times and recognize that fact if they want to stay profitable, or they can rely on the crazy obsession of the Otakus... bearbuddy: Yeah, it goes beyond purely the moe genre. I think it's a combination of purely superficial shows that caused the boom, but moe sounds better so I went with that | ||
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