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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On May 16 2013 00:07 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 23:20 Forikorder wrote:On May 15 2013 20:32 shell wrote:On May 15 2013 20:11 bittman wrote:On May 15 2013 20:03 shell wrote:
It's a good power but a good haki user will just punish him Oh yeah. I mean haki users made it look really easy to beat the admirals. Because they had haki. Strong guys are strong. Haki just evens some of the playing field. Barty is strong. He's a pirate captain in the new world. Like saying that Vergo is a haki user, so he should have punished Law. No dude.. what i'm saying is that a barrier is shit when you face good haki user! Since a haki punch won't be stopped with a barrier of devil powers! He can have haki and be very strong but unless he can make haki infused barriers, his power is not that usefull against haki users! Haki doesnt completely nullify devil fruits it only prevents logias from instantly avoiding every attack the abilitis of the devil fruit still works on Haki users This. Haki did not prevent Law from using his devil powers on Vergo.
That's not true. Law could use his devil powers on Vergo most likely because he used his own Haki to counter Vergo's. Therefore, you probably can use Haki in some way to counter the Bartolomeo's barriers. The proof that Haki has some effect on regular devil fruits and not only logias as you imply, lies in the fact that Vergo used full body Haki with the intent of protecting himself from Law's fruit.
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On May 16 2013 09:30 BrokenMirage wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 00:07 Prog455 wrote:On May 15 2013 23:20 Forikorder wrote:On May 15 2013 20:32 shell wrote:On May 15 2013 20:11 bittman wrote:On May 15 2013 20:03 shell wrote:
It's a good power but a good haki user will just punish him Oh yeah. I mean haki users made it look really easy to beat the admirals. Because they had haki. Strong guys are strong. Haki just evens some of the playing field. Barty is strong. He's a pirate captain in the new world. Like saying that Vergo is a haki user, so he should have punished Law. No dude.. what i'm saying is that a barrier is shit when you face good haki user! Since a haki punch won't be stopped with a barrier of devil powers! He can have haki and be very strong but unless he can make haki infused barriers, his power is not that usefull against haki users! Haki doesnt completely nullify devil fruits it only prevents logias from instantly avoiding every attack the abilitis of the devil fruit still works on Haki users This. Haki did not prevent Law from using his devil powers on Vergo. That's not true. Law could use his devil powers on Vergo most likely because he used his own Haki to counter Vergo's. Therefore, you probably can use Haki in some way to counter the Bartolomeo's barriers. The proof that Haki has some effect on regular devil fruits and not only logias as you imply, lies in the fact that Vergo used full body Haki with the intent of protecting himself from Law's fruit.
There's always so much confusion about haki. There are no laws of it explained outside of Rayleigh's couple of pages in the Luffy instructional. Here's what we know from evidence regarding Haki vs Devil Fruits:
- Armament Haki can be used to increase the power of attacks (Amazon Isle arrows. Smoker vs Vergo is a good example of a fight centred around use of armament haki.)
- Armament Haki can be used to damage through devil fruit powers (Gorgon sisters vs Luffy)
- Armament Haki DOES NOT cancel a fruit's powers (Luffy was still able to use his rubber powers. Akainu, after being hit by a lot of haki attacks, was still definitely made of lava).
When Law attacked Vergo, despite Vergo's complete body-Haki, it can be interpreted in one of two ways:
1) Law infused his attack with Haki
2) Law's attack was simply too strong for Vergo to negate.
Most likely, #1 is the case.
Barty's barriers could probably indeed be countered by haki. As a pirate captain in the new world and Supernova, it would be ridiculous if he did not have haki of his own however.
Regardless, I think he's pretty counterable. Bellamy was not out for the count until the King's Punch interrupted their fight. Barty did look a little pressured as Bellamy had found a way to get his arm to Barty's beck. I don't think he'll be beaten by haki, but probably ingenuity.
Or pure strength. Which would seem ridiculous given the king's punch not working, but it's a good power setup if someone like Diamante or Burgess just flat out crushes the barrier.
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On May 16 2013 09:58 bittman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 09:30 BrokenMirage wrote:On May 16 2013 00:07 Prog455 wrote:On May 15 2013 23:20 Forikorder wrote:On May 15 2013 20:32 shell wrote:On May 15 2013 20:11 bittman wrote:On May 15 2013 20:03 shell wrote:
It's a good power but a good haki user will just punish him Oh yeah. I mean haki users made it look really easy to beat the admirals. Because they had haki. Strong guys are strong. Haki just evens some of the playing field. Barty is strong. He's a pirate captain in the new world. Like saying that Vergo is a haki user, so he should have punished Law. No dude.. what i'm saying is that a barrier is shit when you face good haki user! Since a haki punch won't be stopped with a barrier of devil powers! He can have haki and be very strong but unless he can make haki infused barriers, his power is not that usefull against haki users! Haki doesnt completely nullify devil fruits it only prevents logias from instantly avoiding every attack the abilitis of the devil fruit still works on Haki users This. Haki did not prevent Law from using his devil powers on Vergo. That's not true. Law could use his devil powers on Vergo most likely because he used his own Haki to counter Vergo's. Therefore, you probably can use Haki in some way to counter the Bartolomeo's barriers. The proof that Haki has some effect on regular devil fruits and not only logias as you imply, lies in the fact that Vergo used full body Haki with the intent of protecting himself from Law's fruit. There's always so much confusion about haki. There are no laws of it explained outside of Rayleigh's couple of pages in the Luffy instructional. Here's what we know from evidence regarding Haki vs Devil Fruits: - Armament Haki can be used to increase the power of attacks (Amazon Isle arrows. Smoker vs Vergo is a good example of a fight centred around use of armament haki.) - Armament Haki can be used to damage through devil fruit powers (Gorgon sisters vs Luffy) - Armament Haki DOES NOT cancel a fruit's powers (Luffy was still able to use his rubber powers. Akainu, after being hit by a lot of haki attacks, was still definitely made of lava). When Law attacked Vergo, despite Vergo's complete body-Haki, it can be interpreted in one of two ways: 1) Law infused his attack with Haki 2) Law's attack was simply too strong for Vergo to negate. Most likely, #1 is the case. Barty's barriers could probably indeed be countered by haki. As a pirate captain in the new world and Supernova, it would be ridiculous if he did not have haki of his own however. Regardless, I think he's pretty counterable. Bellamy was not out for the count until the King's Punch interrupted their fight. Barty did look a little pressured as Bellamy had found a way to get his arm to Barty's beck. I don't think he'll be beaten by haki, but probably ingenuity. Or pure strength. Which would seem ridiculous given the king's punch not working, but it's a good power setup if someone like Diamante or Burgess just flat out crushes the barrier.
i think its #2
jsut think of it as a test of strength, when using Devil Fruit ability against a Haki user whoever is concentrating more power into it wins, if the Haki user has more strength then the attack does nothing if the DF user has more then it works, jsut like how Law fought Vergo in the past and could do nothing he got stronger since
thats probably pertly how Akainu survived the Haki attacks, the Haki wasnt powerful enough to overcome his magma so he could still let it pass through (although not perfectly)
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That was a pretty epic chapter. Dat punch!! Big payoff to see that finally happen lol.
Good that we have a clear bad guy who isn't quite figured out yet.
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I wonder if the reason why bart was so startled by bellamy was because his strings now have seastone in them possibly?
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On May 16 2013 09:30 BrokenMirage wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 00:07 Prog455 wrote:On May 15 2013 23:20 Forikorder wrote:On May 15 2013 20:32 shell wrote:On May 15 2013 20:11 bittman wrote:On May 15 2013 20:03 shell wrote:
It's a good power but a good haki user will just punish him Oh yeah. I mean haki users made it look really easy to beat the admirals. Because they had haki. Strong guys are strong. Haki just evens some of the playing field. Barty is strong. He's a pirate captain in the new world. Like saying that Vergo is a haki user, so he should have punished Law. No dude.. what i'm saying is that a barrier is shit when you face good haki user! Since a haki punch won't be stopped with a barrier of devil powers! He can have haki and be very strong but unless he can make haki infused barriers, his power is not that usefull against haki users! Haki doesnt completely nullify devil fruits it only prevents logias from instantly avoiding every attack the abilitis of the devil fruit still works on Haki users This. Haki did not prevent Law from using his devil powers on Vergo. That's not true. Law could use his devil powers on Vergo most likely because he used his own Haki to counter Vergo's. Therefore, you probably can use Haki in some way to counter the Bartolomeo's barriers. The proof that Haki has some effect on regular devil fruits and not only logias as you imply, lies in the fact that Vergo used full body Haki with the intent of protecting himself from Law's fruit.
Here is a quote from One Piece Wikia:
"Busoshoku Haki allows the user to create a force similar to an invisible armor around themselves.[2] Similar to Tekkai, this allows the user to defend against attacks that would otherwise cause them harm. Only significant physical force can overcome this defense; for example, Luffy striking Boa Marigold hard enough with Gear Second techniques to send her reeling."
i.e. Haki will not protect you from a foe far stronger than yourself, regardless of their own use of Haki.
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On May 16 2013 21:39 SensFaiL wrote:
I wonder if the reason why bart was so startled by bellamy was because his strings now have seastone in them possibly?
Nevermind forgot bellamy does have a fruit :p so that can't be the case.
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yeah bellamy must have found some weakness of bartolomeo in the last second because he was really surprised and then the epic punch came XD
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On May 17 2013 00:22 sharkie wrote:
yeah bellamy must have found some weakness of bartolomeo in the last second because he was really surprised and then the epic punch came XD
Looked more like a "Stop grabbing at me, you're annoying." kind of thing from a defeated opponent to me.
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On May 17 2013 01:00 sumsaR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 00:22 sharkie wrote:
yeah bellamy must have found some weakness of bartolomeo in the last second because he was really surprised and then the epic punch came XD Looked more like a "Stop grabbing at me, you're annoying." kind of thing from a defeated opponent to me.
Maybe Bellyamy will reveal Bart weakness during Luffy fight with Bart.
Just like how Luffy cheer Bellamy, Bellemy might reveal in the very climatic timing. Then luffy can counter the barrier....
Maybe...
Maybe...
Hmm.
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I love how Bartholomeo's power works so well with his personality. He's repulsive, and trolls people into hitting him and hurting themselves.
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I thought we discussed the whole Vergo thing.
Haki could counter Law's ability (hence why Vergo covered his entire body in an attempt to counter it), but Law did a massive concentrated attack (taking out like an entire mountain), which broke through Vergo's defence. Had Vergo been able to concentrate haki to the place Law attacked, he probably could have protected himself, or had he dodge he would have been fine, but Vergo's arrogance with his ability to use haki led to his downfall.
It was basically Oda's way of saying Haki is good, but not the ultimately counter to devil fruits, and that they're still dangerous even if you know haki.
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He can't dodge, Law had his room's diameter extended far enough to include the entire island. law can cut anything inside his room at will without needing to make physical contact. Vergo's only defense is to cloak himself in haki which he did, but he has to spread out his haki armor to his entire body because Law can cut him anywhere without making contact. Even if he choose to concentrate all his haki on one place, all law had to do is cut the place where it's weakly coated with haki, and avoid the part where Vergo concentrated all his haki, law can tell because that place wouldn't turn black.
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Didnt follow the latest Haki discussion but is it comfirmed that bodyparts covered in Haki turns black or just to make the viewer clear that it's empowered?
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On May 17 2013 05:48 Sableyeah wrote:
Didnt follow the latest Haki discussion but is it comfirmed that bodyparts covered in Haki turns black or just to make the viewer clear that it's empowered?
Not confirmed afaik.
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I'm certain Law used Haki in his slash against Vergo though, Luffy confirmed Law is a proficient Haki user and I don't see a reason why he wouldn't do it, he has probably has surpassed Vergo in general, just couldn't do shit until Smoker retrieved his heart.
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On May 17 2013 05:36 rei wrote:
He can't dodge, Law had his room's diameter extended far enough to include the entire island. law can cut anything inside his room at will without needing to make physical contact. Vergo's only defense is to cloak himself in haki which he did, but he has to spread out his haki armor to his entire body because Law can cut him anywhere without making contact. Even if he choose to concentrate all his haki on one place, all law had to do is cut the place where it's weakly coated with haki, and avoid the part where Vergo concentrated all his haki, law can tell because that place wouldn't turn black.
he could ahve dodged, if he had jumped or ducked it would ahve missed
he may have near infinite range but its not an AoE its still a normal slash
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On May 17 2013 12:21 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 05:36 rei wrote:
He can't dodge, Law had his room's diameter extended far enough to include the entire island. law can cut anything inside his room at will without needing to make physical contact. Vergo's only defense is to cloak himself in haki which he did, but he has to spread out his haki armor to his entire body because Law can cut him anywhere without making contact. Even if he choose to concentrate all his haki on one place, all law had to do is cut the place where it's weakly coated with haki, and avoid the part where Vergo concentrated all his haki, law can tell because that place wouldn't turn black. he could ahve dodged, if he had jumped or ducked it would ahve missed he may have near infinite range but its not an AoE its still a normal slash
Can't jump man, if he jumped to dodge the first slash, he can't change direction in mid air, he will get own by the 2nd slash, and guess where else can he dodge? that's right he has to duck it. he can't even step back because of that slash has huge range. And guess who also knows where is the only place his slash can be dodge and the dodger can counter attack him in the same time? that's right Law. and guess vergo also knows that. That's why the only choice he had is to armor himself and block it with haki. Everybody here knows this intuitively, why do you have to keep ignoring facts and starting argument when it's common sense.
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On May 17 2013 13:19 rei wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 12:21 Forikorder wrote:On May 17 2013 05:36 rei wrote:
He can't dodge, Law had his room's diameter extended far enough to include the entire island. law can cut anything inside his room at will without needing to make physical contact. Vergo's only defense is to cloak himself in haki which he did, but he has to spread out his haki armor to his entire body because Law can cut him anywhere without making contact. Even if he choose to concentrate all his haki on one place, all law had to do is cut the place where it's weakly coated with haki, and avoid the part where Vergo concentrated all his haki, law can tell because that place wouldn't turn black. he could ahve dodged, if he had jumped or ducked it would ahve missed he may have near infinite range but its not an AoE its still a normal slash Can't jump man, if he jumped to dodge the first slash, he can't change direction in mid air, he will get own by the 2nd slash, and guess where else can he dodge? that's right he has to duck it. he can't even step back because of that slash has huge range. And guess who also knows where is the only place his slash can be dodge and the dodger can counter attack him in the same time? that's right Law. and guess vergo also knows that. That's why the only choice he had is to armor himself and block it with haki. Everybody here knows this intuitively, why do you have to keep ignoring facts and starting argument when it's common sense.
Law cant rapid fire off such powerful slashs and if he doesnt go full power then it doesnt cut vergo and he uses the CP9 special moves, which includes an air jump
he could also have dived over the slash
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what make you think he can't rapid fire it? He did it to that battleship. As long as his opa opa power is activated he can manipulate anything within it. and He extended that shit to cover the entire island during that fight.
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EPT
