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On April 27 2013 22:02 Razhil wrote:While I totaly aggree with your point of view, Luffy one-shotting that same sea king as soon as he leaves his island doesn't make that same sea king look so dangerous after all. 
I don't think the sea king was ever really meant to be dangerous. I've always felt that Shanks lost his arm because he was caught up in the moment. He was looking to save his young friend (a child in the water is bad enough but a DF user to boot just makes the situation all the worse) and was simply acting instinctively, he wasn't there approaching the situation rationally (that they were in East Blue might well add to things, had he been on the Grand Line he might have been more prepared for trouble, but in a small town in the middle of nowhere you're not really expecting anything serious), all he was looking to do was save Luffy's life. Of course, knowing that he's one of the most powerful pirates in the world does raise some doubts, but I don't think a lapse of judgement in such a situation is really too unimaginable.
Had Shanks lost his arm while fighting the bandits or something then yeah, I'd very much feel it was a hole in the plot. But to lose it in the spur of the moment, while his only concern was the life of a vulnerable child, seems feasible to me.
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On April 27 2013 22:00 17Sphynx17 wrote:
I've been thinking about the discussion you guys are having and maybe there is a retcon Oda could do, but of course, it would be a twist that may not be believable for all.
Shanks didn't enable haki in general because he didn't have full control of it yet at that time when he tried to save luffy. He was afraid of accidentally activating conqueror's haki which could "Hurt" luffy and causing him to faint so he just sacrificed his arm in the process.
You are also all arguing about the "power level" of Mihawk against pre-Yonkou Shanks, but wouldn't it be unrealistic to assume that Mihawk didn't grow strong as well during that time? He simple hasn't challenged Shanks or is known to have fought with Shanks yet when he is at Yonkou Level at this point. So there is no way for us to know which one of them is stronger.
As for Luffy or Zoro. I honestly am of the belief that Zoro is actually stronger than Luffy and he simply chooses to follow Luffy. As I recall, he mentions in one of the chapters that if Luffy did something he would leave (I really forgot which chapter that was so please do bear with me). Also, he was able to take Luffy's damage which knocked Luffy out cold and brought him to the point of dying when they battled Kuma, and he took all the damage simultaneously not in stages, so that counts for something as well.
Just because you are the leader doesn't mean you are the strongest. I think that is one of the things that are great about One Piece. Our heroes don't always win, and they aren't on the typical typecasted path of shounen characters with nakama powers (DBZ, Naruto etc). Dominance is not necessarily the objective as shown by One Piece characters. Whitebeard, Shanks and Luffy don't seem to dominate the places they end up raising their flag onto or visit. Exactly the opposite of what you'd expect from pirates which are shown by acts of Big Mam and Kaidou are the other part of the Yonkou Group.
But that's my take on it. And I am enjoying the ride with what Oda is showing us. =)
Don't bring Luffy vs. Zoro here please. It's a terrible topic to discuss because at the end of the day, nothing will be changed in the fact that the manga does not directly tell us who is stronger.
I suggest you go only by what Oda has shown us and not make these assumptions because it hinders your understanding of the manga.
For instance, you use the example of Zoro threatened to leave Luffy to support your Zoro>Luffy even though his reason for the threat (a reason unrelated to your argument) was because of Luffy not acting as a Captain should when Luffy wanted to have Usopp rejoin the crew after the fight for the Going Merry. Zoro wanted Luffy to take the situation seriously and only accept Usopp if he proved himself trustworthy to rejoin the crew.
Another false belief that you hold is that Zoro simply chooses to follow Luffy. Zoro would not have volunteered to die for Luffy instead in the confrontation with Kuma. The point of the 2 year training for the crew members was to become stronger for LUFFY. Zoro would not have done these things if he was "simply following" Luffy.
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On April 27 2013 22:32 Frost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2013 22:00 17Sphynx17 wrote:
I've been thinking about the discussion you guys are having and maybe there is a retcon Oda could do, but of course, it would be a twist that may not be believable for all.
Shanks didn't enable haki in general because he didn't have full control of it yet at that time when he tried to save luffy. He was afraid of accidentally activating conqueror's haki which could "Hurt" luffy and causing him to faint so he just sacrificed his arm in the process.
You are also all arguing about the "power level" of Mihawk against pre-Yonkou Shanks, but wouldn't it be unrealistic to assume that Mihawk didn't grow strong as well during that time? He simple hasn't challenged Shanks or is known to have fought with Shanks yet when he is at Yonkou Level at this point. So there is no way for us to know which one of them is stronger.
As for Luffy or Zoro. I honestly am of the belief that Zoro is actually stronger than Luffy and he simply chooses to follow Luffy. As I recall, he mentions in one of the chapters that if Luffy did something he would leave (I really forgot which chapter that was so please do bear with me). Also, he was able to take Luffy's damage which knocked Luffy out cold and brought him to the point of dying when they battled Kuma, and he took all the damage simultaneously not in stages, so that counts for something as well.
Just because you are the leader doesn't mean you are the strongest. I think that is one of the things that are great about One Piece. Our heroes don't always win, and they aren't on the typical typecasted path of shounen characters with nakama powers (DBZ, Naruto etc). Dominance is not necessarily the objective as shown by One Piece characters. Whitebeard, Shanks and Luffy don't seem to dominate the places they end up raising their flag onto or visit. Exactly the opposite of what you'd expect from pirates which are shown by acts of Big Mam and Kaidou are the other part of the Yonkou Group.
But that's my take on it. And I am enjoying the ride with what Oda is showing us. =) Don't bring Luffy vs. Zoro here please. It's a terrible topic to discuss because at the end of the day, nothing will be changed in the fact that the manga does not directly tell us who is stronger. I suggest you go only by what Oda has shown us and not make these assumptions because it hinders your understanding of the manga. For instance, you use the example of Zoro threatened to leave Luffy to support your Zoro>Luffy even though his reason for the threat (a reason unrelated to your argument) was because of Luffy not acting as a Captain should when Luffy wanted to have Usopp rejoin the crew after the fight for the Going Merry. Zoro wanted Luffy to take the situation seriously and only accept Usopp if he proved himself trustworthy to rejoin the crew. Another false belief that you hold is that Zoro simply chooses to follow Luffy. Zoro would not have volunteered to die for Luffy instead in the confrontation with Kuma. The point of the 2 year training for the crew members was to become stronger for LUFFY. Zoro would not have done these things if he was "simply following" Luffy.
I agree!!!
The thing about Zoro vs Luffy,
Or Mihawk power level vs yonko..
Those speculation, and bringing everything from the manga to support that theory. Is really tiring to read.
It is filled with argument, and soon it became argue for the sake of argue, and it become so pointless and so long to read..
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On April 27 2013 22:32 Frost wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 27 2013 22:00 17Sphynx17 wrote:
I've been thinking about the discussion you guys are having and maybe there is a retcon Oda could do, but of course, it would be a twist that may not be believable for all.
Shanks didn't enable haki in general because he didn't have full control of it yet at that time when he tried to save luffy. He was afraid of accidentally activating conqueror's haki which could "Hurt" luffy and causing him to faint so he just sacrificed his arm in the process.
You are also all arguing about the "power level" of Mihawk against pre-Yonkou Shanks, but wouldn't it be unrealistic to assume that Mihawk didn't grow strong as well during that time? He simple hasn't challenged Shanks or is known to have fought with Shanks yet when he is at Yonkou Level at this point. So there is no way for us to know which one of them is stronger.
As for Luffy or Zoro. I honestly am of the belief that Zoro is actually stronger than Luffy and he simply chooses to follow Luffy. As I recall, he mentions in one of the chapters that if Luffy did something he would leave (I really forgot which chapter that was so please do bear with me). Also, he was able to take Luffy's damage which knocked Luffy out cold and brought him to the point of dying when they battled Kuma, and he took all the damage simultaneously not in stages, so that counts for something as well.
Just because you are the leader doesn't mean you are the strongest. I think that is one of the things that are great about One Piece. Our heroes don't always win, and they aren't on the typical typecasted path of shounen characters with nakama powers (DBZ, Naruto etc). Dominance is not necessarily the objective as shown by One Piece characters. Whitebeard, Shanks and Luffy don't seem to dominate the places they end up raising their flag onto or visit. Exactly the opposite of what you'd expect from pirates which are shown by acts of Big Mam and Kaidou are the other part of the Yonkou Group.
But that's my take on it. And I am enjoying the ride with what Oda is showing us. =) Don't bring Luffy vs. Zoro here please. It's a terrible topic to discuss because at the end of the day, nothing will be changed in the fact that the manga does not directly tell us who is stronger. I suggest you go only by what Oda has shown us and not make these assumptions because it hinders your understanding of the manga. For instance, you use the example of Zoro threatened to leave Luffy to support your Zoro>Luffy even though his reason for the threat (a reason unrelated to your argument) was because of Luffy not acting as a Captain should when Luffy wanted to have Usopp rejoin the crew after the fight for the Going Merry. Zoro wanted Luffy to take the situation seriously and only accept Usopp if he proved himself trustworthy to rejoin the crew. Another false belief that you hold is that Zoro simply chooses to follow Luffy. Zoro would not have volunteered to die for Luffy instead in the confrontation with Kuma. The point of the 2 year training for the crew members was to become stronger for LUFFY. Zoro would not have done these things if he was "simply following" Luffy.
No worries. I simply ended up taking part in the discussion. Although we may differ in what we draw from each characters actions or background, I don't mind being wrong. =) It is a fun discussion for me but I'd stop there with my previous post because as you said we really have no concrete proof and only draw from assumptions. =)
Cheers!
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On April 27 2013 23:44 SkelA wrote:
You guys think too much.
/agree
The thing about power levels in OP is that they don't exist. At one point Ussop can lose to a henchman, at another he's giving luffy a hard time. It's really up to whatever Oda wants to do.
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Well, when Usop gave Luffy a hard time, he was perfectly prepared and in the end he was still bonked in like 1 hit. Just saying^^
Wasn't Shanks permanently drunk in East Blue? That's the impression I got. He and his crew drank all the booze in town. It might be fairly common in fiction, but it still is a tall order. They came back to Luffies hometown after every trip for probably several months and they still couldn't get enough alcohol.
I still like the thought that they only hunted for more alcohol when they sailed off.
But then I see Shanks more as a haki user/leader because we never saw him fighting, ever.
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if you really want to try to fit shanks losing his arm into actual lore and not jsut brush it under the rug, you could say since Luffy reminded Shanks of Roger so much he had luffy on the same level as roger and since the Seaking was about to kill him he was just panicing so much about getting there in time he didnt activate Haki
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Korea (South)2582 Posts
shouldn't the new chapter be out?
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no chapter this week, golden week in japan
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It's Golden Week, so the magazine is on break this week.
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On April 28 2013 12:30 Hyperbola wrote:/agree The thing about power levels in OP is that they don't exist. At one point Ussop can lose to a henchman, at another he's giving luffy a hard time. It's really up to whatever Oda wants to do.
But the difference between OP and other mangas is that the fight of Luffy vs Ussop was reasonable. He did make luffy break a sweat, but his moves were possible given the contest. They weren't just pulling jutsus/moves out of their asses.
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Golden Week is horrible @.@
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On April 28 2013 12:30 Hyperbola wrote:/agree The thing about power levels in OP is that they don't exist. At one point Ussop can lose to a henchman, at another he's giving luffy a hard time. It's really up to whatever Oda wants to do.
Usopp giving Luffy a hard time didn't account to Usopp being strong or Luffy being weak, it's more of a reflection on their different mindsets at the time.
Btw, I have this nagging thought that Bellamy is going to betray Doflamingo (for what Dofla did to Bellamy and his mate with kitchen-knife) and ... not team up with, but rather not be hostile towards Luffy. Bellamy has been planning this revenge since before he went to Skypeia. Why? Dofla told Bellamy that dreams didn't exist and all that good stuff. Then Bellamy laughs at Skypeia, which turns out to be real. Meaning that dreams are real and aren't horse crap like Bellamy used to think (because of Dofla). So Bellamy turns out to not be the ass hat he used to. Think of Mr 3, Crocodile, gay-swan-guy-who's-cool, Hatchi, etc.
Also who else is surprised that Buggy of all people maintained his position of Shichibukai for 2 years? Is it because he's good at motivating/leading dudes or is he just not as weak as he appears? He WAS on GR's ship after all... that has to count for something.
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On May 02 2013 03:04 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 12:30 Hyperbola wrote:On April 27 2013 23:44 SkelA wrote:
You guys think too much.
/agree The thing about power levels in OP is that they don't exist. At one point Ussop can lose to a henchman, at another he's giving luffy a hard time. It's really up to whatever Oda wants to do. Usopp giving Luffy a hard time didn't account to Usopp being strong or Luffy being weak, it's more of a reflection on their different mindsets at the time. Btw, I have this nagging thought that Bellamy is going to betray Doflamingo (for what Dofla did to Bellamy and his mate with kitchen-knife) and ... not team up with, but rather not be hostile towards Luffy. Bellamy has been planning this revenge since before he went to Skypeia. Why? Dofla told Bellamy that dreams didn't exist and all that good stuff. Then Bellamy laughs at Skypeia, which turns out to be real. Meaning that dreams are real and aren't horse crap like Bellamy used to think (because of Dofla). So Bellamy turns out to not be the ass hat he used to. Think of Mr 3, Crocodile, gay-swan-guy-who's-cool, Hatchi, etc. Also who else is surprised that Buggy of all people maintained his position of Shichibukai for 2 years? Is it because he's good at motivating/leading dudes or is he just not as weak as he appears? He WAS on GR's ship after all... that has to count for something.
Well he does have his position and his followers because he was on Goldrogers ship.
I don't think he has much more to him. He has literally hundreds of people who are willing and probably eager to show Buggy what they are capable off. That way he can avoid ever doing anything himself until he confronts an opponent his crew can't handle.
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On May 03 2013 21:08 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 03:04 Incognoto wrote:On April 28 2013 12:30 Hyperbola wrote:On April 27 2013 23:44 SkelA wrote:
You guys think too much.
/agree The thing about power levels in OP is that they don't exist. At one point Ussop can lose to a henchman, at another he's giving luffy a hard time. It's really up to whatever Oda wants to do. Usopp giving Luffy a hard time didn't account to Usopp being strong or Luffy being weak, it's more of a reflection on their different mindsets at the time. Btw, I have this nagging thought that Bellamy is going to betray Doflamingo (for what Dofla did to Bellamy and his mate with kitchen-knife) and ... not team up with, but rather not be hostile towards Luffy. Bellamy has been planning this revenge since before he went to Skypeia. Why? Dofla told Bellamy that dreams didn't exist and all that good stuff. Then Bellamy laughs at Skypeia, which turns out to be real. Meaning that dreams are real and aren't horse crap like Bellamy used to think (because of Dofla). So Bellamy turns out to not be the ass hat he used to. Think of Mr 3, Crocodile, gay-swan-guy-who's-cool, Hatchi, etc. Also who else is surprised that Buggy of all people maintained his position of Shichibukai for 2 years? Is it because he's good at motivating/leading dudes or is he just not as weak as he appears? He WAS on GR's ship after all... that has to count for something. Well he does have his position and his followers because he was on Goldrogers ship. I don't think he has much more to him. He has literally hundreds of people who are willing and probably eager to show Buggy what they are capable off. That way he can avoid ever doing anything himself until he confronts an opponent his crew can't handle.
Yeah it seems to be a similar thing to what the Fake Straw Hats had going; though Buggy's still pretty weak (which is of course running joke, while his old crew mate Shanks went on to become a Yonko Buggy ended up a crap pirate in East Blue) he's got such a grand reputation from all his supposed exploits that people just flock to him.
Also was Doflamingo really arguing that dreams don't exist? Reading the chapter again he just seemed to me to be saying that pursuing something like Skypiea would be pointless, not that one shouldn't hold onto dreams.
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I just re-read the last few chapters. When does 708 finally come out? I can't wait anymore
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But not today. Unlike what some may think when they see this thread bumped.
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EPT
