Movie Discussion! - Page 435

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CosmicSpiral

United States15275 Posts

March 13 2019 17:59 GMT

#8681

On March 13 2019 17:23 hexhaven wrote:
In 10 years it'll be impossible to tell if Venom came out in 2018 or 2004.

When I first saw it, I thought I had taken a time machine back to the mid 90s. So many little details are reminiscent of Demolition Man, the third Die Hard, and every action movie of that era. It turns out the initial script was finished back in 1997.

On March 13 2019 22:05 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Well it was no bust though, they made their money back already and future projects will most likely make them a ton as well. Yes solo's performance wasn't great, but even that one made them money.

Solo was estimated to lose 50-80 million when taking reshoots into account.

On March 13 2019 22:05 The_Red_Viper wrote:
While toy sales seem to be down, it's still doing well by any reasonable standard (now ofc these corporations only want to grow each and every year so there is that). It's just not the 80s anymore, or even early 2000s. There is entertainment everywhere right now, so many different franchises and options. Marvel is the big boy now, not star wars.
The real test will be the new star wars sagas anyway, how will star wars do when there is no link to either luke skywalker or darth vader. If they wanted to play it safe they would do content around luke until the end of time (and trying to please the oldschool fans who are now in their 30s, 40s and 50s), instead they give D&D (game of thrones) and rian johnson himself a carte blanche with these projects. Will be interesting!

Remember that Disney only makes a fraction of its total annual revenue from movies. Just like how "Disney princesses" and all the old characters were monetized to hell and back, the company's M.O. is to turn visual media properties into a merchandising empire. Not just action figures but backpacks, plush toys, Disneyland rides, anything that can be used as an extension of the IP. And reliance on this business strategy has only increased in prominence since the home-video market started its decline around 2009.

Disney bought primarily for two reasons: longevity and an assumed 'captive bloc' of adolescents/young men. Thanks to the extended universe and diehard male fans that passed their love of the to the next generation, the franchise survived 2 decades without a live-action film to its credit. Marvel never had that type of track record; until The Avengers, Disney was hedging their bets that acquiring Lucasfilm could soften the blow from any failure. They didn't expect to exsanguinate their expected demographic and lose popularity.

I don't have faith in either. Their weaknesses as screenwriters and directors are antithetical to what made Star Wars attractive in the first place. And giving them carte blanche shows Disney upper management didn't learn anything from their success with Marvel Studios; the Marvel universe works due to an incessant focus on quality control and avoiding controversy. From a business perspective, Feige did a stellar job of keeping the movies on message.

JimmyJRaynor

Canada16711 Posts

March 13 2019 22:19 GMT

#8682

i dont think Star Wars toys are doing very well.
http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/2019-01-31-us-toy-market-shrinks-2-in-2018-action-figure-sales-increase-by-10/
" In the third quarter partner brand sales were down by 37% even. Now, partner brands also includes dolls (Frozen, Disney Princesses) and a few other things, but Star Wars is certainly the biggest player here. Hasbro also said in their statements that Marvel and Beyblade is growing and now we can see that these two lines, together with Mattel’s Jurassic World line, must have grown quite a bit in 2018. That however, leads to one conclusion: the numbers for Star Wars action figures must be horrible when despite healthy growth for Marvel and Beyblade and overall industry growth for action figures the partner brands are still down -37% in the third quarter (and numbers for the fourth quarter will probably be not much prettier)."

https://investor.hasbro.com/news-releases/news-release-details/hasbro-reports-full-year-and-fourth-quarter-2018-financial
" Partner Brand net revenues decreased 22% to $987.3 million. Revenue growth in BEYBLADE and MARVEL was more than offset by declines in STAR WARS, DISNEY PRINCESS, FROZEN and TROLLS. Partner Brand revenues decreased in the U.S. and Canada and International segments. "

Star Wars video games are a dumpster fire.

Jockmcplop

United Kingdom9651 Posts

March 14 2019 10:48 GMT

#8683

On March 14 2019 07:19 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i dont think Star Wars toys are doing very well.
http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/2019-01-31-us-toy-market-shrinks-2-in-2018-action-figure-sales-increase-by-10/
" In the third quarter partner brand sales were down by 37% even. Now, partner brands also includes dolls (Frozen, Disney Princesses) and a few other things, but Star Wars is certainly the biggest player here. Hasbro also said in their statements that Marvel and Beyblade is growing and now we can see that these two lines, together with Mattel’s Jurassic World line, must have grown quite a bit in 2018. That however, leads to one conclusion: the numbers for Star Wars action figures must be horrible when despite healthy growth for Marvel and Beyblade and overall industry growth for action figures the partner brands are still down -37% in the third quarter (and numbers for the fourth quarter will probably be not much prettier)."

https://investor.hasbro.com/news-releases/news-release-details/hasbro-reports-full-year-and-fourth-quarter-2018-financial
" Partner Brand net revenues decreased 22% to $987.3 million. Revenue growth in BEYBLADE and MARVEL was more than offset by declines in STAR WARS, DISNEY PRINCESS, FROZEN and TROLLS. Partner Brand revenues decreased in the U.S. and Canada and International segments. "

Star Wars video games are a dumpster fire.

I don't know how old you were but I remember when Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight came out.
The level design in that game was beyond amazing. I honestly thought Star Wars games were going to get better and better from there. Its been one of my biggest gaming letdowns. There's so much potential for amazing games and the best ones they have ever managed are both at least 20 years old (Jedi Knight and Tie Fighter).

Even a remake of either of those games with good graphics and updated controls would be 1000 times better than what we have been given recently.

goody153

44127 Posts

March 14 2019 12:56 GMT

#8684

JimmyJRaynor

Canada16711 Posts

March 14 2019 13:05 GMT

#8685

On March 14 2019 19:48 Jockmcplop wrote:I don't know how old you were but I remember when Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight came out.

On March 14 2019 19:48 Jockmcplop wrote:
Even a remake of either of those games with good graphics and updated controls would be 1000 times better than what we have been given recently.

I liked the Star Wars games in the N64. Other than that I don't really think much about the Star Wars video games.

Under George Lucas the Star Wars IP was licensed to several different competing video game studios. Disney took over and decided to hand exclusive rights to EA. Six years in to this agreement with EA and things ain't going so great.

A really good Episode9 can lay the ground work for a comeback on every front though. It can create new opportunities/demand for new toys and new video games. The foundation of the Star Wars franchise is its big-budget, theatre movies.

The_Red_Viper

19533 Posts

March 14 2019 13:50 GMT

#8686

On March 14 2019 02:59 CosmicSpiral wrote:

Show nested quote +

Solo was estimated to lose 50-80 million when taking reshoots into account.

Show nested quote +

Right, all i am saying is that it is not terribly surprising to see star wars lose some of its relevance in a time where there is other big blockbuster entertainment available everywhere and another big franchise taking the spot light - the marvel cinematic universe
Disney could have played it safer with the oldschool star wars fanboys and give them luke as the badass they wanted to see, maybe even recast him and make some movies only focused on his adventures after episode 6. That didn't happen and at this point it is too late, so all they have really left is trying to build something new i guess?
Star wars still has a mighty brand value, i wonder if you can get new people and old star wars fans involved in the same story. If you want to sell toys and merchendise you need to make people interested with the tale, will be interesting to see if the new sagas can do that or not.
I am not the biggest D&D fan myself in the case of their own material for GoT, but i think that is a different scenario because they had to work in a weird limbo of own ideas and adapting bits and pieces. Don't really know their standalone work so it's hard to tell for me at this point.
Rian Johnson i am not terribly familiar with either, we'll see what happens.

JimmyJRaynor

Canada16711 Posts

March 14 2019 14:24 GMT

#8687

On March 14 2019 22:50 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Disney could have played it safer with the oldschool star wars fanboys and give them luke as the badass they wanted to see, maybe even recast him and make some movies only focused on his adventures after episode 6. That didn't happen and at this point it is too late, so all they have really left is trying to build something new i guess?

This does not have to be an "EITHER OR" situation. You can keep Luke Skywalker strong and still introduce new compelling heroes.

Vince Mcmahon didn't destroy Bruno Sammartino or Hulk Hogan when they got replaced as the flagship hero of the WWE. He kept them strong and introduced new characters and gave the new champions/heroes a "rub" from Sammartino and Hogan to get the fans to love them.

Vince Mcmahon kept the Hulk Hogan "fan boys" happy while introducing and even bigger mega star: "The Rock". Its a tough balancing act, but Mcmahon pulled it off. The Rock Pinned Hogan for a 3-count at the biggest event of the year and yet somehow, everyone still loved Hogan and thought both the Rock and Hogan were powerful heroes.

Disney should have kept Luke Skywalker strong in the eyes of the hardcore fanboys while introducing new heroes who eventually develop into being as powerful or slightly moreso than Luke Skywalker. That is, what Vince Mcmahon did with "The Rock". A non-white hero.

This is how an old, aging hero 'passes the torch' to the new young hero.
+ Show Spoiler +

Done right, the electricity is unreal man. This is how "The Rock" vaulted himself from "pro wrestler" to one of the best action film heroes in Hollywood. The Rock did this while keeping the "aging" hero he surpassed super-strong in the eyes of all fans.

This is why "The Rock" is "The People's Champion". While Rian Johnson has dozens of youtube channels devoted to constantly spewing out hatred towards him.

The_Red_Viper

19533 Posts

March 14 2019 15:07 GMT

#8688

It is funny to me that while star wars fans always get angry when someone says that at the end of the day it is a story for children, the hardcore fans act exactly like children and cannot deal with nuance in their story. Not that the broken man luke skywalker was a masterpiece of storytelling, but in comparison to what fans apparently absolutely wanted it at least goes in the direction.
With that being said, sure it seems like you are right on this one, it would have been the best way to keep everyone happy, to tell a story which isn't challenging in any shape or form.

About the wrestling parallel though, i never really followed it closely, watched some of it like 14 years ago but isn't it somewhat an unfair comparison? Doesn't wrestling have a lot more direct audience influence simply because there are weekly shows and crowd reception to new fighters and narratives are kinda obvious? So course correction can be started more or less instantly and something will stick almost no matter what? (this is just a tangent really, in essence i agree with your statement here if we go by playing it safe)

JimmyJRaynor

Canada16711 Posts

March 14 2019 15:39 GMT

#8689

On March 15 2019 00:07 The_Red_Viper wrote:
It is funny to me that while star wars fans always get angry when someone says that at the end of the day it is a story for children, the hardcore fans act exactly like children and cannot deal with nuance in their story.

You're familiar with the phrase "won the battle but lost the war" ?

Sometimes when I get into a 100% logical debate with a customer of mine. I "win" the logic debate. I prove to my customer that I am logically correct. And he or she is logically wrong. Often the customer stops spending money on my services. I've damaged my relationship with my customer in the name of logic.

I won a single "logic" battle and I lost the "relationship" war.

Rian Johnson has been attempting to win the "logic" battle with Star Wars fans and he is losing the "relationship" war.

Please keep in mind I'm not a Luke Skywalker supporter. I find him kinda whiney. I'm looking at this from a 3rd person perspective listening to the visceral, gutteral hatred of what Rian Johnson did with the Luke Skywalker hero. And I'm also looking at the Box office results of Solo and the falling toy sales.

For the record, I think the best Disney Star Wars movie was the first one. It's interesting that when EA takes over an IP long held by a totally independent company that the first new release under EA is usually pretty good; Then, it the newly owned EA franchise deteriorates from there. This is sorta what I'm seeing from Disney with Star Wars.

On March 15 2019 00:07 The_Red_Viper wrote:
About the wrestling parallel though, i never really followed it closely, watched some of it like 14 years ago but isn't it somewhat an unfair comparison? Doesn't wrestling have a lot more direct audience influence simply because there are weekly shows and crowd reception to new fighters and narratives are kinda obvious? So course correction can be started more or less instantly and something will stick almost no matter what? (this is just a tangent really, in essence i agree with your statement here if we go by playing it safe)

you are correct, it is a somewhat flawed comparison. Course corrections are much easier and can happen "on a dime".

My point is "The Rock" skyrocketed to stardom while defeating the hero of the-common-man Hulk Hogan. The Rock pissed off zero Hulk Hogan fans. This is the challenge Disney faces. Keep all the Luke Skywalker fans happy while getting them to concede that Mark Hamill and Luke Skywalker are aging and need to be superseded by an emerging new hero who may eventually become more powerful. This is no easy task. However, if Disney wants to maximize the profit from the customer base they purchased this is what they must do.

Your best customers are your current customers. Fishing for new customers is risky and expensive.

Manit0u

Poland17261 Posts

March 14 2019 19:29 GMT

#8690

Ares

Was actually an amazing movie. Once again Europe needs to show Hollywood how it's done. The premise and plot are relatively simple but it's presented brilliantly and works very well for this movie. What we get is an interesting dystopian drama/thriller that is exciting and also touches on some of the big issues of the modern world.

Definitely recommended.

On March 14 2019 22:05 JimmyJRaynor wrote:

Show nested quote +

I liked the Star Wars games in the N64. Other than that I don't really think much about the Star Wars video games.

Dude... KotOR? Both of them?

Falling

Canada11350 Posts

March 15 2019 06:16 GMT

#8691

I don't think Star Wars was originally made for children, but for the general audience, children included. I can deal with nuance alright. Nuanced TLJ was not- lacking in basic causation and characterization is more like it.
" to what fans apparently absolutely wanted it at least goes in the direction."
It's weird how the counter-argument often is this hyperbolic 'you just wanted bad stuff anyways'. I didn't need post-resurrection Neo Luke. There's a middle ground like mentor type characters (Alec's Kenobi, Liam's Qui Gon, Anthony's Don Diego, etc).

I did want a good story that moved in new directions from the OT... we got a Frankenstein amalgamation of Empire and Return instead.

IgnE

United States7681 Posts

March 15 2019 22:55 GMT

#8692

Triple Frontier is the best army recruitment ad of the 21st century. Also the best movie use of Fleetwood Mac’s The Chain

fluidrone

France1478 Posts

March 16 2019 13:31 GMT

#8693

+ Show Spoiler +

On March 16 2019 07:55 IgnE wrote:
Triple Frontier is the best army recruitment ad of the 21st century. Also the best movie use of Fleetwood Mac’s The Chain

Really nice cast! and woups neat prep (they all look / sound the sh it, all like ben is all like action jack, jake is real life ken or charlie is metal gear solid etc),
looks kind of "true story" material

a few plot points that could have been/made it better
(for one when they get to the house they get "lost" while finding the prize and they should have "suffered" from it .. or someone should have been on continuous surveillance detail" .. but..
all and all good script / real live result..
except maybe they polluted to film beautiful mountains (hopefully not <3 )

triple frontier was good
(i mean in the realm of pew pew "barracks" movies)

i just had to drop in and say i loved the flirkin!

[image loading]

Review:
+ Show Spoiler +

(don't open spoiler or you will get captain marvel movie spoiled)
+ Show Spoiler +

Tldr: not half bad!

Whichever way you grind it, Marvel movies are all a part of a large tv series.. and so you have to see all the movies, or should you? Or in any case that maybe should not be "most" of what the individual movie is about?

Movies are not comic books, a movie still remains a block of imperative "objective" narration and that is what i will be on about,
so do continue reading if that is what you are looking for, otherwise re read the tldr and add "for a pew pew movie in 2019".

Story is about stakes, in this movie the stakes are meta aren't they?
But should the script not at least adhere to the idea that viewers experiencing the events unfolding are suppose to be "in on what is at stake?" ..?
Movie about a girl driving the car tries to go pro.. will she or won't she?
In this case we "know" she got game (cosmic power blablabla) before we go in the movie .. or am i wrong in this?

So then we come to the "subversion" of our expectations built in the movie/trailer relationship...
Do we (viewers) just "get on the ride" or should we still retain anything from those unique self made expectation while watching the movie?

i tried to get immersed and buy in, and indeed
i liked
what i thought i would like (like the unexpected or reversing the trailer script and stuff.. the flirkin .. how they were going to do "reverse female bashing" etc)
and indeed i disliked
brie :/
why the f ck did they not get margot robbie? f ckmylife!
.. past the fact that i can type "i liked the movie even though i didn't like the central character
i didn't like her depiction of a kree brainwashed human
i didn't like her "turn"
i didn't like her versus any other 'regular folk" (she's superwoman and stuff and we see how much so and how not human she is bound to be)
i didn't like the send off

but again, f ckme i think it is only on me.. i loved the idea of capmarvil as grill, i was on board from the start and just
briiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie
isn't for me...

i loved what they decided to be, the local hero into superwoman // just takes her time to get involuntary her real mind back, from kree brainwashing..
just the beats were not that good.. good story but not really well filmed/turned into acual scenes
kree policing wasn't bad but not useful to further the "she's different, she's brzinwashed.. etc

i mean they brainwashed her and you don't get that .. or do you?

Then she gets to earth and she's just there
1m30 in a railway bus station
in the middle of the crowd...

Was nice scene but there's nothing there to make a great scene.. first beat missing but well written i guess or just .. maybe it is my brrrrrrrrrrie complex i dunno...?

Then you get buddy movies and that's cool i guess, then she finally gets it and that's pretty slick again as far as story goes!

That's when your prior expectations finally get archived.. then the real movie starts...
And i must say that from there i mostly get over myself and the movie really
is fun

You crack out the pop corn and buy a nice scream and i admit it you are finally
watching a movie.

Then she wins and stuff happens before she flies out in space.

Ok then you are in waiting for the hidden stuff and have a good time
reading the credits and seeing just how many people live off working in the movie industry..
and you get them and it adds
now you wait minutes to actually watch the ADD for next tv episode.

Ok now i am typing this and yes i'd say
good popcorn movie, questionable stuff but overall damage controlled
good movie moves but not enough in depth dwelling on what the script should get us..
good scenes on paper .. but not enough follow through to crystallize the ideas the scripts should have been?

It is weird to like a movie with a main actor you don't like (totally subjective appraisal of her depicting "superwoman") ..
but who cares? it is still a fun pew pew movie.

The de aging of sam is awesome, must have cost someone an arm or two.
The skrulls were great, the kree underwhelming, including anette benning (who should have been the soul of the movie, and was rather underwhelming?)

The flurkin is the symbol that this movie deserves and is.
All the movie revolves around is nothing and everything, and goose is fun as the flag , so if you like that sort of quirkiness as a "pillar" of its structure (narration wise).

This is a re make of "jack burton in chinatown" with just little subtle changes.

I'd wager that anyone ready to just "immerge" in this movie will have fun,
and if like me you dislike that brie was not enough terminator for you? get over yourself.
it is just a movie

The_Red_Viper

19533 Posts

March 17 2019 15:30 GMT

#8694

On March 15 2019 15:16 Falling wrote:

Show nested quote +

I mean yeah it was made to be enjoyed by the general audience and not specifically children only, but george lucas himself said this: https://www.polygon.com/2017/4/13/15288998/george-lucas-star-wars-celebration

TLJ has propbably more nuance in luke's characterisation + Rey/Kylo dynamic than anything in the OT. Again, this is no character study, it is star wars, but in comparison it's still a thing.
Are the movies filled with potential narrative problems? Yes absolutely, but so were the old ones and fans of the OT are incredibly inconsistent in applying the same criticism to the whole movie franchise. Star Wars is made for children, big story beats with some fun ideas, etc is what these movies are about, it's about good vs evil and an interesting setting to accompany that. TLJ actually tried to do a little more than that, which is nice to see. (even though one can argue about the execution of certain parts, like the hamfisted weapon dealer stuff or comments on the class gap).

So you wanted an obi wan kenobi copy while also saying that the movies are already too close to the OT, makes perfect sense to me

Anyway i don't think one party will convince the other here, we had similar talks before when TLJ was fresh. Personally i simply always have a hard time to really understand the hardcore OT fans when it comes to the new movies, i simply don't see a big difference in quality if we look at it holistically.

Pandemona

Charlie Sheens House51487 Posts

March 17 2019 16:13 GMT

#8695

Watched Nobodys Fool yesterday, which i didn't know it was a romantic comedy i thought it was a comedy..haha, but still it was pretty good, if you like romantic comedies this one is pretty good, its not super comedy and has decent outputs and cliches thrown into it but it was pretty good. I think the casting was good as well, check it out if you like this sort of film, if you don't stay clear :D

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8097306/

I mean IMDB shits on it but that shouldn't stop you watching it if you like these types of films or want something to watch with your significant other... xd

Jockmcplop

United Kingdom9651 Posts

March 17 2019 16:14 GMT

#8696

Captain Marvel
5/10

The problems with this movie weren't what i thought they would be. Carol Danvers is an 'ok' character with some defining character traits at least.
I think there was just too much happening in the movie. Trying to tie in an origin story with a huge alien invasion and a massive expansion of the MCU lore was just too much all at once and it reduced the effectiveness of everything they were trying to do.
I wasn't bored, but but I won't remember it particularly well.
This could have been 3 movies over the last few years and it would have led SOO much better into Endgame. As it is I'm now lukewarm about the whole direction the Avengers is going in. Its not ruined but they will have to pull something special out for Endgame IMO.

Uldridge

Belgium4787 Posts

March 17 2019 18:21 GMT

#8697

Honestly, I've been lukewarm about the entirety of Marvel's plan. They just shit out movies left and right and I just enjoy the one's the are enjoyable for me. Certain trailers are epic and they get me moderately hyped, but it's not like I instantly need that movie to come out asap. I definitely enjoy Marvel, but it's not like I'm waiting for them to get to the next one.
The entire machine behind it frankly disgusts me.

JimmyJRaynor

Canada16711 Posts

March 18 2019 23:50 GMT

#8698

Superman 4
+ Show Spoiler +

0/10

At least its only 90 minutes long. Lois Lane, Margot Kidder's nasty coke habit really shows. She looks 34 going on 57. Clarj Kent//Kal-El looks like he is 24. The age difference looks pretty weird. Kal-El's amnesia kiss at the end of Superman2 mysteriously goes away and Lois Lane can remember everything for 1 scene. Then she forgets everything again. For what purpose was that scene? Did Ms. Lane consent to that amnesia kiss?

Today we're all going to die from global warming... in 1987 a nuclear holocaust was going to kill us all. We were all going to blow each other up by dropping nuclear bombs on each other. Superman's solution was to gather up every nuclear weapon everywhere and throw it into the sun. Lex Luthor put some of Superman's DNA on 1 of the nuclear bombs and so Superman throwing it into the sun naturally created "Nuclear Man". Superman and NuclearMan fight in scenes that look like they are for an 80s made-for-TV after school special. The special effects of Superman:The Movie and Superman 2 were much better... and done 10 years earlier.

I'm glad I watched this movie because it gave me some historical perspective. I hear people proclaim movies like Spiderman3 are the worst comic book movies ever made. No comic book movie I've seen comes anywhere close to being as bad as Superman4. SPiderman3 is "Gone With The Wind" compared to Superman4.

Objectively Measuring How Bad Superman4 Is
It killed the franchise that inspired the blockbuster big budget comic book movie. Another Superman cinema movie did not come out for another 19 years. The movie released in 2006 was a sequal to Superman2. The movie, Superman Returns, pretended Superman3 and Superman4 never happened. ROFLMAO. That is next level bad. The movie domestic gross was under $16 million.

I contend that Superman 4 is , both objectively and subjectively, the worst comic book movie ever made.

Sermokala

United States13953 Posts

March 19 2019 00:50 GMT

#8699

I asipre to the tom gear method of "whats the worst thing". As in cheap is good and bad or new people don't know any better. The worst thing has to be made by good competent people with money. Superman 4 had a budget of 17 million and was after a pair of bad movies. And was made by cannon.

And on that rating I would say Justice league is the worst movie let alone super hero movie.

JimmyJRaynor

Canada16711 Posts

March 19 2019 00:58 GMT

#8700

On March 19 2019 09:50 Sermokala wrote: Superman 4 had a budget of 17 million and was after a pair of bad movies.

what were teh 2 bad movies?

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